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Proton Power
Amarr Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.02.23 13:27:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Varo Jan
Originally by: Block Ukx The role of the API Trustees is to overview the corporation data supplied in the website. The data posted in the website should be sufficinet for anyone to perform their own audit, or they can chose to pay for someone else to do the audit. This will become more clear once the system is in place.
An audit relies on a review and analysis of source documents. In RL the meaning of source documents is obvious. In EVE it means access to relevant information directly from CCP.
Data posted on your website is not source data, could have errors, or could have been intentionally tampered with.
In short - there's no need to wait for your system. It is impossible to carry out an audit based solely on your website.
This is what the trustee's are for. To make sure the information on the website is correct and not misleading is the way I understand it.
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.23 14:15:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Proton Power
Originally by: Varo Jan
Originally by: Block Ukx The role of the API Trustees is to overview the corporation data supplied in the website. The data posted in the website should be sufficinet for anyone to perform their own audit, or they can chose to pay for someone else to do the audit. This will become more clear once the system is in place.
An audit relies on a review and analysis of source documents. In RL the meaning of source documents is obvious. In EVE it means access to relevant information directly from CCP.
Data posted on your website is not source data, could have errors, or could have been intentionally tampered with.
In short - there's no need to wait for your system. It is impossible to carry out an audit based solely on your website.
This is what the trustee's are for. To make sure the information on the website is correct and not misleading is the way I understand it.
First, I was referring to Block's contention that "anyone" can either audit or pay for an audit based on the data posted on the website. That contention of Block's is completely wrong.
Second, Block has not explicitly stated that a trustee(s) will be tasked with performing regular audits using direct API access. Besides, do any of the trustees have the required skills?
And last, you of all people know exactly how an audit should be carried out. Remember Magnu?
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.23 14:16:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Proton Power
This is what the trustee's are for. To make sure the information on the website is correct and not misleading is the way I understand it.
That's my understanding too, but I was hoping either Block or Poison would explicitly say something to that effect, since with the latest post it could be read that the trustees are incharge of looking at the website data and checking that it matches what Poison/Block says it should be, not what the API is.
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.23 21:23:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Block Ukx The Cash Reserve is accepting deposits.
Strange name. So you're a pseudo-bank, too? A deposit taker.
Am I right in saying that these are open-ended deposits paying 3% per calendar month, repayable immediately on demand?
Some questions: 1. Do you have the liquidity to repay the full 150B immediately, should there be a need? 2. How are these deposits being used by you? Are they being invested in stable operations with measurable returns, or are they being used for purposes such as mineral speculation?
Whatever the case may be, this makes it imperative that you have regular independent audits. I'd remind you that EBank, Ihatalo (sp?) and others that failed grandly relied on trust alone to scoop up large public funds, looked very pretty with their websites and documentation - and never had audits.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.24 02:40:00 -
[365]
The Cash Reserve is managed by Poison under the supervision of BSAC, and is currently caped at around 150 B ISK. Deposits in the cash reserve accumulate daily interests that are paid after the end of the month. Any ISK removed prior to the "PAYOUT" day will not earn interest. Interest rates are subject to change monthly. ISK can be withdrawn at anytime, and there are no transfer fees. An account is needed to deposit ISK in the Cash Reserve.
I process the deposits and withdrawals and I keep 20% of the Cash Reserve as liquid ISK. Large withdrawals can take up to 72 hrs to process, as it requires liquidating some of the CR investments. To ensure that we can pay 3% monthly, the performance of the CR is monitored by me via API custom-made software.
I audit BSAC in a regular basis and keep records of all the transactions to ensure that the financial information we publish is correct.
We plan to increase our transparency by deploying a new system where the corporationĘs data will be published in our website. We plan to publish enough information for anyone to do their own performance check, or you can pay someone to do the audit for you. If you canĘt find the information you need, then you should contact me so I can add it to the website. The data that will be posted in the website will be verified by the API Trustees. Currently, the board of directors is the designated API Trustee. We will invite trusted non-BSAC individuals, like Proton Power for instance, to hold the API key.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah
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Posted - 2011.02.24 16:31:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Block Ukx The Cash Reserve is managed by Poison under the supervision of BSAC, and is currently caped at around 150 B ISK. Deposits in the cash reserve accumulate daily interests that are paid after the end of the month. Any ISK removed prior to the "PAYOUT" day will not earn interest. Interest rates are subject to change monthly. ISK can be withdrawn at anytime, and there are no transfer fees. An account is needed to deposit ISK in the Cash Reserve.
I process the deposits and withdrawals and I keep 20% of the Cash Reserve as liquid ISK. Large withdrawals can take up to 72 hrs to process, as it requires liquidating some of the CR investments. To ensure that we can pay 3% monthly, the performance of the CR is monitored by me via API custom-made software.
I audit BSAC in a regular basis and keep records of all the transactions to ensure that the financial information we publish is correct.
We plan to increase our transparency by deploying a new system where the corporationĘs data will be published in our website. We plan to publish enough information for anyone to do their own performance check, or you can pay someone to do the audit for you. If you canĘt find the information you need, then you should contact me so I can add it to the website. The data that will be posted in the website will be verified by the API Trustees. Currently, the board of directors is the designated API Trustee. We will invite trusted non-BSAC individuals, like Proton Power for instance, to hold the API key.
I can confirm that I have been given an API key but have yet to find the time to do an audit on it - why I would like non-BSAC key holders too.
I will say that there was a large withdrawal from the Cash Reserve recently, and it was processed in the time between my two checks. There is currently only one account that exceeds Block's Cash Reserve liquidity of 20% and as far as I am aware it does not belong to any BSAC BoD (or their alts). (Suggestion being made to Block).
I have thrown a few more ideas/suggestions at Block and he is probably getting fed up of me now, but he is continuing to update on what is going on, even if it is in the background. --
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Einear Lightfingers
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Posted - 2011.03.15 04:09:00 -
[367]
Block, I'm sure you have more than enough going on, but how do you plan to handle the missing dividends from NHIMF. Also do you know if there will be any stocks or dividends paid out on the ore stocks besides MEDIF and MEXIF or if BSAMR will get a dividend this month as well? Thanks for any update. This is not a criticism more of an inquiry. Love the stock exchange, just seeing some stocks getting posted later than others and trying to determine if items above will be getting a late dividend as well.
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Kudlow N'cramer
World Eaters Excavation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:51:00 -
[368]
I have a firm grasp on everything it would take to issue shares of my corp on BSAC: tighten up and audit finances, develop a plan/strategy for issuing and pricing dividends, coming up with a prospectus and attracting investors, etc...
But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:20:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
Send a mail to BSAC MMM? He'll violate you in private, then we'll violate you in public when your listing is announced. Sound good?
I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches. |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:24:00 -
[370]
..So what's your position on the exchange Ray? Just wondering.
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:42:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer I have a firm grasp on everything it would take to issue shares of my corp on BSAC: tighten up and audit finances, develop a plan/strategy for issuing and pricing dividends, coming up with a prospectus and attracting investors, etc...
But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
Firstly you would open an account with BSAC, I forget the exact process, I think you send 1m isk to the char 'BSAC MMM', but best to email him first as Ray said.
Once your account is set up, you would let BSAC MMM know you are planning on listing shares on the exchange. He would set that up for you, and when he is ready he would tell you to transfer the shares to him.
Your account would then be listed with virtual shares which you can sell via the exchange. Any isk you make would be put onto your account balance which you can then request be transferred to your eve character, or you could retain it on your account to invest in other shares.
Lastly if you run votes on your shares, they can be voted on by shareholders within the exchange functionality.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:52:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
First open an account (send 1M ISK to BSAC MMM)
Assuming the stock is listed, to deposit shares, email BSAC MMM for instructions.
If the stock is not listed, then it has to meet some minimum listing requirements: 1) Published IPO in this forums 2) Recieved a positive review (ie sold-out is a positive review) 3) At least one share must be registered with the Exchange.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Skarii TuThess
Lansez Innovations
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Posted - 2011.05.12 07:16:00 -
[373]
Hi everyone,
I had to take an unfortunate and sudden break from Eve before christmas. I'm in the process of getting back into Eve, which includes restarting my role as NHIMF manager.
When I left the fund we had just been hit by the T4U scam, and the fund value stood at 800m ISK (ish) from the original 1bn investment. Prior to this my trading strategy had been to mainly focus upon non-BSAC shares, with the emphasis on using my liquidity to set a tighter margin. As a backup I was also making investments into the mineral fund. I considered the latter to be higher risk, and so my purchases were smaller. This was working reasonably well early on, but a general lack of movement in the share market was disappointing.
When the scam hit it wiped a reasonable portion off of the value of the fund. This meant that not only was the fund under the starting position but that dividends were not going to be paid (as these would only be paid upon the value of the fund above the starting point). Due to the lack of mobility of the other shares I altered my trading startegy to focus more upon the mineral fund. In particular it seemed to me that Pyerite seemed underpriced at 4.23 ISK / unit, so I invested heavily here. Zydrine also seemed reasonably priced at 1063 / unit, but had the benefit of regular dividends and seemed a good investment.
At present the Pyerite value is 4.73, whilst the Zydrine value has fallen to 896. Overall, alongside mineral fund dividend payouts, this puts the current fund value at 1,294m ISK. Of this 1,101m is book value of investments held, whilst 193m is held in uninvested ISK.
I would like to apologise to the shareholders for my absence. I am working with Block to gift the fund 250m ISK that can be paid out as a bonus dividend as an apology for the lack of management to the fund from me over the last 5 months. I will be reviewing the fund over the next couple of days to decide what the best strategy is from here on.
Once again sorry for the MIA on this.
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Kudlow N'cramer
World Eaters Excavation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:24:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
First open an account (send 1M ISK to BSAC MMM)
Assuming the stock is listed, to deposit shares, email BSAC MMM for instructions.
If the stock is not listed, then it has to meet some minimum listing requirements: 1) Published IPO in this forums 2) Recieved a positive review (ie sold-out is a positive review) 3) At least one share must be registered with the Exchange.
Thank you. I'm fairly sure I have a grasp on the effort this is going to take to set up. I have a little bit of academic knowledge in finance, but I've been researching stocks for private investment for nearly ten years now. So, if and when I choose to list, it'll be up to snuff.
One last question about the IPO:
According to your prerequisites, I have issue in-game shares via an IPO before I can give the appropriate amount of shares to BSAC for listing? What if those investors quit the game?
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Lando Antilles
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:37:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar Lastly if you run votes on your shares, they can be voted on by shareholders within the exchange functionality.
Did not know this was possible. So exchange shareholders are notified of corp votes and Block votes their proxy?
If true, that does add more functionality and transparency (though not security) to the exchange. ---------------------- My *locked* EVE CV |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.05.13 01:00:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer According to your prerequisites, I have issue in-game shares via an IPO before I can give the appropriate amount of shares to BSAC for listing? What if those investors quit the game?
Which shares are you interested in listing?
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Annabelle Horiz
New Horizon Investments
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:46:00 -
[377]
NHIMF Re-establishment report
Introduction I have now returned and taken an account of the condition of the fund. Overall it is in good condition other than the lack of dividends paid since the creation. This was in part due to my absence, and in part due to the financial loss incurred from the T4U scam.
Net Asset Value The BSAC stock exchange currently values the NHIMF at 1.251m ISK.
Dividend Due to my feeling that one of the assets of NHIMF is being overvalued by the exchange I personally feel that a 90% dividend of the 251m ISK profit to be too high, and would therefore put the fund at under the intrinsic share value. My value reduces the asset value of the fund to 1,222m ISK. Therefore at 90% a dividend of 200m ISK has been paid.
Future Tradining Conditions The stock exchange feels in a better condition that when I left due to the presence of new entries on the fund. Thereffore I feel that there is good trading conidtions to profit from this activity. I have altered my trading strategy to place reduced emphasis on the mineral funds to shift towards taking advantage of these conditions.
I still feel very much that the secondary market is still in an infancy within Eve. Due to the high presence of scams or failures the client base interested in taking part in such ventures are generally very conservative. When they find a venture that they like (which is fairly rare) then they will hold onto it, trusting the dividends rather than risking long term profit loss for a short term gain. There are few exceptions that I have seen to this philosophy.
There is a greater problem on the level of IPOs and the volatility of the secondary market. Ventures less than 5bn ISK tend to be small enough that those lucky enough to get in on the duck shoot will get shares and tend to hold onto them. Larger ventures tend to have much greater volatility, but much less protection. Therefore although trading conditions are good there is a cynical sense that it is only a matter of time for many of these ventures.
In order to increase the activity on the secondary market we would need for more IPOs to be launched on exchanges, such as this one. However it is understandable that there remains a level of caution around this.
AOB Having spoken with Block I have decided that rather than pay the 250m ISK apology fine through the exchange (as this would distort the performance) I will be paying these in game to the existing stock holders. Once again my apologies for this enforcedbreak - please be assured that business is back to normal. [NHI] Investing in the sunny days of tomorrow. |
Lando Antilles
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Posted - 2011.05.14 18:58:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Lando Antilles
Originally by: Khanid Voltar Lastly if you run votes on your shares, they can be voted on by shareholders within the exchange functionality.
Did not know this was possible. So exchange shareholders are notified of corp votes and Block votes their proxy?
Block,
I'd appreciate a public confirmation or denial of the above functionality. ---------------------- My *locked* EVE CV |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.05.15 00:36:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Lando Antilles
Originally by: Lando Antilles
Originally by: Khanid Voltar Lastly if you run votes on your shares, they can be voted on by shareholders within the exchange functionality.
Did not know this was possible. So exchange shareholders are notified of corp votes and Block votes their proxy?
Block,
I'd appreciate a public confirmation or denial of the above functionality.
The functionality exist, however, it has not been used yet for share related votes. Part of the issue is that there is no vote API, so it would be nice if the CEO would email me ahead of time to post the vote before it is issued.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.05.15 06:19:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Block Ukx there is no vote API
Pull the Notifications API and look for typeID 25.
I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches. |
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.05.18 01:08:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Block Ukx there is no vote API
Pull the Notifications API and look for typeID 25.
Thanks for the info. I will work on implementing this in the Exchange.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
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