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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Regam Voss
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:33:00 -
[1]
Wouldnt it make some kind of sense to just go back to a build that worked fine, until you get all the other issues fixed??
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CCP Lemur
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Posted - 2010.07.24 18:55:00 -
[2]
No. This is a test server. Broken builds are expected.
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roflpilot
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Posted - 2010.07.24 19:32:00 -
[3]
Originally by: CCP Lemur No. This is EVE-Online. Broken builds are expected.
Fixed it for you
<3
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.07.25 17:03:00 -
[4]
*me wanders into thread, points at OP and starts laughing*
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Robdon
Baptism oF Fire
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Posted - 2010.07.26 07:09:00 -
[5]
If have to agree, that this is the test server, so I do expect some problems.
But, I do think the quality of the code before it gets to this server should be better than this.
Do the coders not even unit test before it gets here? As there are alot of very obvious problems.
Or is this the first place that they can actually run their code?
Rob.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.07.26 08:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Robdon Or is this the first place that they can actually run their code? Rob.
This. Sisi is actually CCPs internal testserver. They just let us hop on it to help test stuff.
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Misunderstood Genius
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Posted - 2010.07.26 12:40:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Robdon If have to agree, that this is the test server, so I do expect some problems.
But, I do think the quality of the code before it gets to this server should be better than this.
Do the coders not even unit test before it gets here? As there are alot of very obvious problems.
Or is this the first place that they can actually run their code?
Rob.
SISI IS the place where they test. To make clear: TQ is meant for playing, SISI is meant for testing AND NOT playing. A lot of player think that SISI is an Arcade Universe for free. NO, it's NOT! It's a test server. TEST TEST TEST!
HOW COPY?
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.07.26 13:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Lemur No. This is a test server. Broken builds are expected.
I have yet to find the part of Scrum that advocates broken sprint results. Oh well...
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Fearless M0F0
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.26 14:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: CCP Lemur No. This is a test server. Broken builds are expected.
I have yet to find the part of Scrum that advocates broken sprint results. Oh well...
QFT: Although unexpected problems could happen, if you guys are doing SCRUM correctly, what you put in the test server should be a "potentially shippable product increment". Emphasis in potentially shippable, it means one or more fully designed, developed and tested features.
At the end of each sprint you must make a presentation showing this product increment, all stakeholders are invited. This is called the "Sprint review meeting", one of the 3 key events that must happen on every sprint along with the planning meeting and daily scrums. If you guys are not doing get a new scrummaster.
The sprint review meeting is sadly one of the most overlooked parts of SCRUM, but it saves your team time in useless meetings with management or other teams. It also keeps the team focused on delivering a quality product increment.
We usually have VP or even the CEO take a peek in our meetings (they are stakeholders, they are always invited). Imagine what would happen if the app blow up on us in there
-- I take offense on people feeling offended by me |
HoboWithASalvager
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Posted - 2010.07.26 14:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CCP Lemur No. This is a test server. Broken builds are expected.
Should players still bug report things not working if you know it's all broken ? The bug report I made weeks ago for item amount dragged to cargo not defaulting to maximum has not been processed but is fixed now.
I want to help find things that are not working but can't see the purpose in doing so if you see a broken test server as being perfectly normal.
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 16:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: HoboWithASalvager
Originally by: CCP Lemur No. This is a test server. Broken builds are expected.
Should players still bug report things not working if you know it's all broken ? The bug report I made weeks ago for item amount dragged to cargo not defaulting to maximum has not been processed but is fixed now.
I want to help find things that are not working but can't see the purpose in doing so if you see a broken test server as being perfectly normal.
Yes. Knowing something is broken doesn't necessarily mean you know how to fix it. Not to mention two people can theoretically be having the same issue for two different reason. Which is why in some games one fix will work for someone while not working for others.
But more importantly, you can never really have too much information on a bug.
A Broken test server means that test builds are being put on it, which means that the builds are being tested, which means that testing is perfectly normal.
Unless you can give a reason as to why broken things appearing on the test server shouldn't be normal.
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Robdon
Baptism oF Fire
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Posted - 2010.07.26 18:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Misunderstood Genius
Originally by: Robdon If have to agree, that this is the test server, so I do expect some problems.
But, I do think the quality of the code before it gets to this server should be better than this.
Do the coders not even unit test before it gets here? As there are alot of very obvious problems.
Or is this the first place that they can actually run their code?
Rob.
SISI IS the place where they test. To make clear: TQ is meant for playing, SISI is meant for testing AND NOT playing. A lot of player think that SISI is an Arcade Universe for free. NO, it's NOT! It's a test server. TEST TEST TEST!
HOW COPY?
I'm fully aware that the test server is not to play on, but to test.
However, in alot of development places I've worked, there are multiple places/levels you test.
Firstly, the devs unit test system, then a 'system test' system and then a system used just before you go live with a release.
I wasn't sure how CCP do it, and I wondered where in the chain the test server SiSi is.... if its the Dev Unit test place (which would be a bit stupid to alow the users / public on), then its understandable that there are masses of bugs, but if its the 'final' area or system test area, its a bit of a concern.... atleast to me.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.07.26 23:18:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 26/07/2010 23:18:56
Originally by: Robdon
Originally by: Misunderstood Genius
Originally by: Robdon If have to agree, that this is the test server, so I do expect some problems.
But, I do think the quality of the code before it gets to this server should be better than this.
Do the coders not even unit test before it gets here? As there are alot of very obvious problems.
Or is this the first place that they can actually run their code?
Rob.
SISI IS the place where they test. To make clear: TQ is meant for playing, SISI is meant for testing AND NOT playing. A lot of player think that SISI is an Arcade Universe for free. NO, it's NOT! It's a test server. TEST TEST TEST!
HOW COPY?
I'm fully aware that the test server is not to play on, but to test.
However, in alot of development places I've worked, there are multiple places/levels you test.
Firstly, the devs unit test system, then a 'system test' system and then a system used just before you go live with a release.
I wasn't sure how CCP do it, and I wondered where in the chain the test server SiSi is.... if its the Dev Unit test place (which would be a bit stupid to alow the users / public on), then its understandable that there are masses of bugs, but if its the 'final' area or system test area, its a bit of a concern.... atleast to me.
AFAICT Sisi is the last stage before the production system (Tranquility).
There is also Multiplicity and some other (publically accessible) test systems, some of them seem to be abandoned though (look at http://www.eve-offline.net).
Apparently there are also "internal servers" as mentioned in the rocket thread in the test server forum and Tuxford's "Oops, did I just initiate a shutdown of the production system?!" happened because he thought he was doing it on his local machine (IIRC).
So yeah, Sisi is the last testing stage and apparently rather far from being the first one.
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CCP Atropos
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Posted - 2010.07.27 00:41:00 -
[14]
There's a build done from the branch that Sisi is running on currently (EVE-STAGING) every night. It's not an end of sprint deliverable product, but rather an 'I-don't-care-what's-in-the-branch-just-build-it' build.
Software Engineer Core Engineering |
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.07.27 07:51:00 -
[15]
If your nightlies look like that you might want to reconsider your strategy about what gets committed to the repository and what not.
Are 'I-deploy-what-is-there-no-matter-how-broken-it-is' builds compatible with ExcellenceÖ now? It's a system open for your users and you just confirmed you don't even care about how broken it is.
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CCP Lemur
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Posted - 2010.07.27 09:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: CCP Lemur on 27/07/2010 09:02:37
Originally by: Ban Doga If your nightlies look like that you might want to reconsider your strategy about what gets committed to the repository and what not.
Are 'I-deploy-what-is-there-no-matter-how-broken-it-is' builds compatible with ExcellenceÖ now? It's a system open for your users and you just confirmed you don't even care about how broken it is.
The Sisi server is a test server. Atm there is a lot of UI background development going on since a corification for the UI is underway. In order for this not to disrupt all the other development going on it was decided to do it in this branch and this server. This has the added benefit of many of you filing BR about the issues since there is just a lot UI for EVE. And from the numbers of BR coming in the plan seems to work.
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Beardponderer
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.07.27 11:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Lemur Edited by: CCP Lemur on 27/07/2010 09:02:37
Originally by: Ban Doga If your nightlies look like that you might want to reconsider your strategy about what gets committed to the repository and what not.
Are 'I-deploy-what-is-there-no-matter-how-broken-it-is' builds compatible with ExcellenceÖ now? It's a system open for your users and you just confirmed you don't even care about how broken it is.
The Sisi server is a test server. Atm there is a lot of UI background development going on since a corification for the UI is underway. In order for this not to disrupt all the other development going on it was decided to do it in this branch and this server. This has the added benefit of many of you filing BR about the issues since there is just a lot UI for EVE. And from the numbers of BR coming in the plan seems to work.
I feel so used
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.07.27 13:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ban Doga There is also Multiplicity and some other (publically accessible) test systems, some of them seem to be abandoned though (look at http://www.eve-offline.net).
Multiplicity is actually not open to the public most of the time, it is usually just running a TQ build but is for specific hotfix tests right before they're put on TQ. None of those other test servers on that list are public and Serenity is the Chinese server. If I remember correctly Unicorn is the Chinese test server.
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