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Galdornae
Caldari
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.16 21:47:00 -
[1]
This is an issue that's been around for ages and is a really easy fix.
The only problem with rockets is that their explosion velocity is too low.
Fully skilled t1/faction rockets have an explosion velocity of 127.5
This is way too low to be effective against other frigate targets, especially with the prevalence of afterburner frigates since the scram changes.
Your average AB frigate, when webbed, is still going 300-500 m/s. Even a scram/webbed MWD frigate will not take full damage. (An armor tanked rifter, for example, will be going 177m/s)
Please fix the explosion velocity to make rocket based ships viable for PVP. Hawk, kestrel, inquisitor, and breacher could actually be effective pvp ships. (Most notably, the hawk.) Not to mention the plethora of other frigate hulls that often use rockets as a secondary weapon system.
The actual fix is quite simple, just increase explosion velocity. A 100-150% increase would be just about right.
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Galdornae
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.16 21:59:00 -
[2]
It's time.
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Vechernyi
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.16 22:10:00 -
[3]
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Susan Black
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.16 22:20:00 -
[4]
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Drake Neutrino
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Posted - 2010.07.17 00:06:00 -
[5]
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.17 01:21:00 -
[6]
Nope, sorry dude, CCP thinks a 3d chat room is more important.
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Jasper Mc'Innis
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Posted - 2010.07.17 01:33:00 -
[7]
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JuanCamaney
University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.07.17 02:25:00 -
[8]
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Malik77
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.17 03:16:00 -
[9]
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Aurora IV
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Posted - 2010.07.17 03:17:00 -
[10]
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Saelie
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Posted - 2010.07.17 03:45:00 -
[11]
It's a simple fix that CCP should be able to slip in there even with their refocused priorities.
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Norath84
Idle Haven
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Posted - 2010.07.17 03:48:00 -
[12]
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Dengen Krastinov
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.07.17 04:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dengen Krastinov on 17/07/2010 04:25:49
Vengeance and Heretic reporting in.
Also, a 150% bonus to explosion velocity is good but not enough. Rockets need AT LEAST a 20% buff in base damage in addition to that to even approach the usefulness of 150mm autocannons on the aforementioned ships.
In addition, a reduction in fitting requirements to around the same as 125mm/150mm AC's would be very beneficial. Rockets just use too much fitting resources on TOP of being so crappy.
CCP will get around to fixing rockets but one thing wont change. Disappointment. I've been waiting forever and I've been disappointed time and time again reading the patchnotes and noticing the apparent complete apathy of CCP towards this issue.. When they do
'buff them' the changes made will do very little to make them competitive against other short range weapon systems which in the end is what matters... not arbitrary exclamations of necessary % buffs to damage ect.
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Murasaki Denki
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.07.17 04:33:00 -
[14]
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Hoshi Akarui
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.07.17 04:37:00 -
[15]
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Yumemiru
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.07.17 04:37:00 -
[16]
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Galdornae
Caldari
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.17 04:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dengen Krastinov
Edited by: Dengen Krastinov on 17/07/2010 04:25:49
Vengeance and Heretic reporting in.
Also, a 150% bonus to explosion velocity is good but not enough. Rockets need AT LEAST a 20% buff in base damage in addition to that to even approach the usefulness of 150mm autocannons on the aforementioned ships.
In addition, a reduction in fitting requirements to around the same as 125mm/150mm AC's would be very beneficial. Rockets just use too much fitting resources on TOP of being so crappy.
CCP will get around to fixing rockets but one thing wont change. Disappointment. I've been waiting forever and I've been disappointed time and time again reading the patchnotes and noticing the apparent complete apathy of CCP towards this issue.. When they do
'buff them' the changes made will do very little to make them competitive against other short range weapon systems which in the end is what matters... not arbitrary exclamations of necessary % buffs to damage ect.
You're pretty much spot on here.
I left the damage increase out of the OP because the fundamental problem with rockets lies in the explosion velocity. But the way I see it is that if you can get them to where they are doing full damage to a properly tackled target, then their EFT dps should be slightly lower than the other frigate weapons, to account for other systems not doing full dps (tracking/falloff).
Basically the idea is to put them on par with the other weapons, not make them the new overpowered FotM.
Another point to consider would be an increased clip size. Rockets run out of ammo much faster than other frigate weapons.
But I can't stress enough that explosion velocity is the #1 issue.
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yani dumyat
Black Storm Cartel
The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.17 19:16:00 -
[18]
There is already a fix rockets thread that's been going for over a year Linkage
Originally by: Galdornae
The only problem with rockets is that their explosion velocity is too low.
The discussion about what's worng with rockets is in this thread. There are many more problems with rockets than just the Ev. 
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Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Ospie
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.07.17 22:57:00 -
[19]
Was told all I love would be killed if I didn't support.
Does need fixing, I just don't see CCP giving a **** about what would really improve the game though.
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Galdornae
Caldari
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.18 01:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: yani dumyat
There is already a fix rockets thread that's been going for over a year Linkage
Originally by: Galdornae
The only problem with rockets is that their explosion velocity is too low.
The discussion about what's worng with rockets is in this thread. There are many more problems with rockets than just the Ev.
Addressed this in the post right above yours. Will edit the OP.
Ex. velocity makes rockets broken. The other issues just make them underpowered.
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Sylar McIntyr
Konstrukteure der Zukunft
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.07.18 08:39:00 -
[21]
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LoRDa RaMOs
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Posted - 2010.07.18 11:32:00 -
[22]
Excellent idea, i've been wanting to use my Vengeance assault ship. It's too shiny to be so useless 
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
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Posted - 2010.07.18 11:39:00 -
[23]
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Nerf Herders Unlimited
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Posted - 2010.07.18 12:13:00 -
[24]
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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Black Storm Cartel
The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.18 12:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Galdornae
Ex. velocity makes rockets broken. The other issues just make them underpowered.
With all due respect this is a naive statement, it shows at the very least that you haven't made any attempt to understand the missile formula or read the correct rocket explosion speed thread in the test server feedback forum.
The biggest problem is DRF (Damage Reduction Factor), it's a constant in the missile formula which determines how steeply damage is reduced by the velocity of the target. Thankfully CCP seem to understand that simply increasing the Ev (Explosion Velocity) would be a bad idea:
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
The unguided missiles from rockets to HAMs or torpedoes were intended to be much more effective weapons against larger ship classes which is reflected in their stats rather than be equally effective vs the same hulls. However as Tonto points out the relative velocity and sig radius min/max is much less variable as you move up to cruisers and battleships. Ships like HAM drake or HAM sacrilege perform their roles well as do the torp ravens. However rocket crows or vengeance lack the punch these lot serve and that is most likely what we will address.
Once CCP get round to fixing rockets they won't touch them again for a long time so the fix needs to be right first time, to bring rockets in line with torps you'd be looking at something like this:
DRF = 1.5
Ev = 100
Er = 20
Damage = + 65%
Clip size = +200%
Note that the most significant changes are to the DRF, damage and clip size, the base Ev only needs a small increase in this scenario.
Fixing rockets is not as simple as giving a 100% increase in Ev, which would leave us with poor damage and we'd still need a web to hit AB jaguars, let alone ceptors or dramiels. The issue has been discussed to death for the last 18 months, we know what needs changed and are just waiting for CCP to pull their finger out and do it.
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Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
yani dumyat
Minmatar
Black Storm Cartel
The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.18 12:18:00 -
[26]
This topic was passed by the CSM over a year ago, the most recent word from CCP is this quote from the correct rocket explosion speed thread in the test server feedback forum.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When is much harder for any of us to answer, each upcoming release has a focus but we do release two major content expansions and the next one is the winter release of those so at the very least, it will be part of that.
If you wish to support this topic please do so in the existing thread that was passed by the CSM.
It's nice to see this enthusiasm for fixing rockets but lets keep to a single thread rather than having many small threads scattered about the place
_______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
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