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Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.10 23:08:00 - [1] Command Center Upgrades Level 4 (don't know if the other skills impact my setup) Lowsec One planet with Advanced Command center and extraction on a 5 hour cycle (4 times a day), at current prices I earn around 36M isk a month per planet. It breaks down to around 12M isk an hour. Each extractor scan/activation costs me around on average 10 sec to perform. I can probably increase the hourly wage, but at the expense of how much I earn per planet per month. Have to do a couple of calculations tomorrow. That is not much per hour, but it is when you look at the requirements (a single skill to level 4) and very little risk, and then it does seem like a lot. The most dangerous part is getting it from planet to buyer. And you'll need to invest ~7M isk per planet. I'm not going to share my setup, nor am I going to tell you what I produce. Neither am I interested in your particular setup or what you produce. I am interested in what your income is per planet per month and how much your hourly 'wage' is.
Mingus Sin	Posted - 2010.06.10 23:21:00 - [2] Originally by: Cergorach One planet with Advanced Command center and extraction on a 5 hour cycle (4 times a day), at current prices I earn around 36M isk a month per planet. It breaks down to around 12M isk an hour. Care to explain your math? You say you make 36M per month but 12M per hour. I dont know about you but the last time I checked a month had more than 3 hours in it.
Ruddy Rax	Posted - 2010.06.10 23:23:00 - [3] I don't see why you need to compare e-peen sizes already. PI is way way to early in to say what income is. i've run through some basic cals to work out income now. but its irrelevant. till the NPC orders disappear off the market. till the market starts to fill up with PI goo and goods. income doesn't mean jack.
Shallow Joe	Posted - 2010.06.11 01:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Mingus Sin Care to explain your math? You say you make 36M per month but 12M per hour. I dont know about you but the last time I checked a month had more than 3 hours in it. Perhaps he is saying 12M per man-hour of time invested managing his PI?
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.11 08:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Shallow Joe Originally by: Mingus Sin Care to explain your math? You say you make 36M per month but 12M per hour. I dont know about you but the last time I checked a month had more than 3 hours in it. Perhaps he is saying 12M per man-hour of time invested managing his PI? I'm saying that. It's interesting now because investments are minimal, return is relatively high. Prices will of course change, for better or worse. The reason I'm asking (and telling) the above is to make a more educated guess about the better or worse part. If it's to easy and income is relatively high, prices will get worse, if it's to little, to hard, or just plain to boring, it's going to get better. I just noticed that I can still optimize my production even further.
Hiroshi Nagasaki	Posted - 2010.06.11 10:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Cergorach It's interesting now because investments are minimal, return is relatively high w0000t? I do something wrong or? I produce 7,5 robotics/h (without buying NPC materials!) currently I have 53.700 isk/h w00000hoooo with HIGH investment (5h cycle on 4 planets and a few 30min cycles) 15min in a Belt with a hulk = ~1,1 million isk without clicking like a crazy frog over the screen
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.11 10:49:00 - [7] I changed the setup a bit and got the following: 4x 5 hour cycles per day 63M isk /month /planet 23.56M isk /work hour That is way more then I every expected! With: 1x 23 hour cycle per day 36M isk /month /planet 36M isk /work hour Don't know how that is going to be affected by depletion over long periods of time. Originally by: Hiroshi Nagasaki I do something wrong or? Probably...
Bobmaster206	Posted - 2010.06.11 10:50:00 - [8] Edited by: Bobmaster206 on 11/06/2010 10:54:52 If you are making that much, then you either: A)found a hole in the market B)found the best possible combination of planets ever dreamed (five perfect plasmas perhaps?) Cause I'm currently experimenting with different types of production to anaylize what is the best type Of my four planets (fifth goes up tonight) all using advanced CC in 0.5 space I have: 1 doing T1 (remember T0 is raw) 1 doing T2 2 working together for T3 and honestly, the money made sucks for all of them right now.... I haven't done the isk/second math yet, but at least until CCP drops seeded mats, there isn't very many iskies coming out of planets. Perhaps the difference between high and lowsec is what is increasing your income? In the end I think a firm amount being made will be hard to say just because the market is so young.
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.06.11 11:14:00 - [9] i'd say 2 mil ISK/day per planet on 23 hour maintenance cycle is solid projection, once prices stabilize. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.11 11:49:00 - [10] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 11/06/2010 11:52:51 Edited by: Taram Caldar on 11/06/2010 11:50:54 Originally by: Jagga Spikes i'd say 2 mil ISK/day per planet on 23 hour maintenance cycle is solid projection, once prices stabilize. That's a pretty solid somewhat passive income though. If you run the numbers a fully trained PI character could make 360 million isk/month. If you take the time to train all 3 characters on your account for it that's just a smidge over 1bil/month 'mostly passive' income. The question is: How much 'at the keyboard' time does that 2mil/day require and does it scale linear with the number of planets or not? Also, are those numbers for highsec planets or nullsec. Because from what I'm seeing nullsec planets blow highsec away for PI. Market Alerts Mailing List

Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project	Posted - 2010.06.11 13:07:00 - [11] Nice, I'm not that intensive about PI, but I got a nice little setup that is earning me 6M per day for 15 mins work and no risk. the rest of my planets are for working out the optimal lines for my real production once I get CCU 5. <a href="http://eve-search.com/externalLink.asp?l=http%3A%2F%2Frumandmonkey%2Ecom%2Fwidgets%2Ftoys%2Ftestgen%2F6199%2F"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25764.jpg" title="Industrialist with teeth" alt="Industrialist with teeth" border="0"
Capita List	Posted - 2010.06.11 15:01:00 - [12] Don't under-estimate the time-sink involved. Though I can see it becoming a little less significant once everyone has their logistics figured out. That being said, it seems the vast majority of players have sh*t planets in high sec which are never going to produce much more than a pittance of return on investment.
gfldex	Posted - 2010.06.11 16:23:00 - [13] I have one char that is making robotics that are sold to the highest bidder. The lines are feeded by NPC sell orders (no extractors involved). I make about 50M/day profit with touching each custom office and launch pad twice a day on 5 planets. I further have a large stash of silicon that I intend to react with stuff I mine of planets in highsec. What kind of stuff I will for sure not tell in a public place but it's based on the assumption that there are P1s that are in high demand and in low supply. There is money to be made right now but you are stupid if you sell anything that drops out of extractors until CCP is removing POS NPC sell orders.
Joel McBeth Caldari Tactical Trading Partnership	Posted - 2010.06.11 16:33:00 - [14] Edited by: Joel McBeth on 11/06/2010 16:35:02 You guys need to keep in mind that it takes time to haul the resources you extract and sell them. Unless you are in high sec next to Jita with all your planets in the same system, this probably will be the most time consuming part, other than finding and setting up the planet. You could potentially have up to 60,000+ m3 you have to haul from 6 different planets, spanning multiple systems, in low sec/null sec. I wouldn't really classify that as "mostly passive."
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.11 20:58:00 - [15] Hauling with the production from the 5 hour cycle x4 a day I'm making a trip to the planet four times a month with a full cargohold in a Viator kitted for speed. If I use an Iteron Mark V kitted for cargo it's 7-8 trips a year per planet. The biggest problem is that I don't have enough storage to hold more then a month of items on planet. You might want to use industrials to move product to the nearest planet and move between systems in a fast ship if you don't want a weekly trip. Sure it takes time, but the same goes for 'passive' datacore mining, sure they are small and cost a pretty penny per item, but it still takes time to haul the stuff to a sell location. The biggest 'fun' i have is figuring out the best setup and the most efficient logistics. When that is figured out, the actual production is going to be boring as hell. It's only worth it if it makes me more isk per hour then other activity (vs. risk).
Joel McBeth Caldari Tactical Trading Partnership	Posted - 2010.06.12 00:46:00 - [16] That's where I got the 60K m3 from. 6 planets x 10,000 m3 storage. It depends on what you produce. On my P2 production planets I made 400m3 in two days, so it would take 24 days before I had to pick anything up. If I was in lowsec or nullsec it would be half the time or less. Which still isn't that bad, actually.
Emporer Norton	Posted - 2010.06.12 01:19:00 - [17] I've sold 24 p4 items at over 10 mill each can make 1/hr if keep everything running smoothly is 7.2 bill/mo if prices stay the same
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.12 11:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Emporer Norton I've sold 24 p4 items at over 10 mill each can make 1/hr if keep everything running smoothly is 7.2 bill/mo if prices stay the same That does sound profitable. But, I seriously doubt your doing that on a single planet, if you are, your not doing it with P0 items. Your either using multiple planets or are buying P1/P2/P3 items so you are also making costs. How much of that 10M isk is profit?
Dani WH	Posted - 2010.06.12 18:21:00 - [19] I must be ****ed, but im producing 5 units of ** per hour.. that is 120 units per day per planet. and each unit sells for 1000isk, giving a daily profit of 120k isk per planet. After having clicked 218354243 times... LMAO?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.12 18:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Dani WH LMAO? The rest of this thread delivers, you don't. So, um, nope. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.

Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.12 19:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Cergorach on 12/06/2010 19:14:09 I just increased my efficiency by ~65%, just by figuring out how to do the scanning/clicking quicker (no I'm not using macro's). On the other hand, my 'ideal' setup just went sideways due to some strange behavior from the factories, might solve that with some extra stock. Otherwise my end production gets cut by 25% until I train CCU to level 5. I think I found an actual use for my Command Center, need to test it with a new setup (tomorrow), might even out supply of P0. On another note, anyone figured out how depletion works? Does it depend on the amount mined in a certain period or on the total amount? At this rate I might stripmine the locations I'm using extractors at in 1-2 weeks. With a few accounts you might stripmine a planet bare of a certain resource. A big (and dedicated) corp might stripmine the universe of Felsic Magma, driving up prices ;-) Originally by: Dani WH I must be ****ed, but im producing 5 units of per hour.. that is 120 units per day per planet. and each unit sells for 1000isk, giving a daily profit of 120k isk per planet. After having clicked 218354243 times... LMAO? You must be the guy flipping burgers... My attempt at being helpful: Your producing the wrong **, probably the wrong way, not to mention that your clicking about a million or two times to much (folks afflicted with ADHD shouldn't touch PI).
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.12 19:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Cergorach On another note, anyone figured out how depletion works? Does it depend on the amount mined in a certain period or on the total amount? I do not think it is possible to completely deplete a planet of its resources, at all. From my testing on Sisi I was under the impression that extraction jobs are run like this: You set up a job. The job will run for x time (= depletion) with product coming in each Y time cycle. Depletion time, on the current extraction time, is designed to make sure people have to come back and monitor their PI facility. The smaller extraction time cycle (chunks) keeps from having the infrastructure overload with one lump sum delivery. Now, I am kind of guessing this to be the case from the numbers involved in the output. I've not touched PI except for Sisi and not for many weeks now. PS: I think that having additional parties on your planet only decreases the amount(s) available for extraction in any given time period. Just an additional thought before hitting post. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.12 20:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Shar Tegral PS: I think that having additional parties on your planet only decreases the amount(s) available for extraction in any given time period. Just an additional thought before hitting post. The point is making the item scarce, even when your output comes close to 0, so does the competition's. Whom due lack of profit will stop extracting the resource ;-) It looks like there are a certain amount of 'hot spots' on a planet for each resource, those seem to be depleted (and change a bit of color), I'll have to test with a different character on the same planet to confirm (tomorrow).
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.06.12 20:20:00 - [24] dude with this amount of planets i highly doubt anyone can strip mine anyone p1 material. knowledge is power
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.12 21:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Grozen dude with this amount of planets i highly doubt anyone can strip mine anyone p1 material. There are 'only' 6609 Lava Planets, the only place this particular material is found. That's only 10% of all the planets, every character 6 planets, 1100 characters in the alliance ;-)
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.06.12 21:58:00 - [26] Edited by: Grozen on 12/06/2010 21:57:52 Originally by: Cergorach Originally by: Grozen dude with this amount of planets i highly doubt anyone can strip mine anyone p1 material. There are 'only' 6609 Lava Planets, the only place this particular material is found. That's only 10% of all the planets, every character 6 planets, 1100 characters in the alliance ;-) the planets in 0.0 can fill your entire spaceport in less then a day that will need some epic hauling which i'm sure while on theory can be done in reality i doubt will ever happen just cuz 0.0 ppl are not carebears. knowledge is power
Dani WH	Posted - 2010.06.12 23:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Cergorach You must be the guy flipping burgers... My attempt at being helpful: Your producing the wrong ****, probably the wrong way, not to mention that your clicking about a million or two times to much (folks afflicted with ADHD shouldn't touch PI). No need to insult... Haven't tried PI too much. But it's obvious that the user interface on EVE suxx. This gets even more evident when playing the planets game. If only we had the ability to reactivate all the extractors at once... I'm producing Rocket Fuel, which was a NPC item whose value used to be 600isk, now price is around 1000isk. I'm doing it in highsec. Maybe lowsec yields 10x the amounts? I will give a try and investigate where earnings currently are (maybe its better to sell the Plasmoids for example). But unless CCP increases the production ratio, Rocket Fuel will experiment an insane price increase because supply is gonna be too low, and I guess its the same story for other stuff? /me enters lowsec LOL
Locar	Posted - 2010.06.12 23:48:00 - [28] I can't believe how badly some people are doing this. PI works great as a secondary income, and can be tended to with minimal effor. Firstly, you need to make sure you have, say, a week of P1s built up. This allows you to build a buffer of P2 and P3 so that you're only hauling from planets every week. You just have to realise that in order to do this you're not going to get your first P4 out tomorrow, you have to wait 2 or 3 weeks. BUilding up the buffe rmeans that you need to do much less work on a day to day basis. And transporting to market each day is insane, completely negates any benefit of the "passiveness" of the whole PI work. 1 char, no skill beyond level 4, lowsec, making about 8 mill per day for 20 mins work (i didn't build up a buffer so am hauling to planets each day). I'm not even contemplating cashing the p4s in for at least a month. Going backwards and forwards with a few p4s each day is pointless.
Ka choop	Posted - 2010.06.13 21:00:00 - [29] I've checked a few T2 products and the T1 to T2 step actually cost me ISK. I could have better sold the T1 materials and would have had more ISK in my pocket. Som prices are gona change radically when the npc orders disappear from the market.
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.13 23:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Ka choop Edited by: Ka choop on 13/06/2010 21:07:13 Some prices are gona change radically when the npc orders disappear from the market. Fore instaqnce, take your rocket fuel: To make 1 rocket fuel you need 8 plasmoids (150 jita buyorder) and and 8 electrolytes(301 Jita buyorders) So basically, if you would have sold the T1 product you would have made 3608 isk. Rocket fuel goes for 890 ISK. By converting the T1 products to the T2 products you just destroyed 75% of the value. Yep, prices are going to change, but which way. Everyone is expecting them to go up, and that would be the most logical assumption. BUT the last month and a half NPC orders have sold an enormous amount of NPC goods, I would say a couple of times the norm, if not more. Certain folks will have 'cheap' supplies, but I don't belief that those will all be used in production, a lot is an investment. I just bought 300k+@775isk/350k@750isk and for good measure bought the rest of what was available on that particular market, those are NOT for production. Now there are many others that are doing the same, imagine folks with a huge stock, enough for months upon months, with more coming in from PI...



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