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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.06.10 22:28:00 -
[1]
So, I've been working on the concept of a ship that would be able to hunt down and kill targets all by itself in w-space. It has to have a cloak to conceal itself before the attack/hide from anyone large enough to kill it. It has to have an Expanded Probe Launcher so as to be able to probe out targets and navigate w-space. It has to have a reasonable tank and good DPS in order to kill PVE targets fairly quickly before their friends arrive and/or Sleepers show up and nuke your ship. It also has to lock targets fairly quickly so as to be able to catch stuff.
It's a pretty tall order.
Anyway, I came up with a few ideas but only a few worked out due to the massive CPU requirement of the probe launcher and cloaks. A covert ops cloak isn't required but would be nice to have.
The main problem I've been running into is being able to fit a reasonable tank while finding the CPU for the cloak and probe launcher, all while maintaining enough DPS. My first thought was the Pilgrim of course, but it's tank is very light, its DPS is also very light (5x Hammerhead IIs) and it's fairly short ranged due to medium neutralizer range restrictions.
The Curse basically duplicates the Pilgrim's abilities only allows for greater standoff range than the Pilgrim at the expense of the covert cloak. The advantage of the Curse and Pilgrim is the tank breaking ability of the neuts, but their peak DPS is really poor and their tanks are also generally pretty bad.
Now, I'm open to all sizes of ships, BCs, BS etc. but basically I'm looking for that good combo of lock speed, dps and tank. I can't seem to get a good Ishtar fit as the CPU is just too tight. BCs and BS just have too poor a lock speed after fitting cloaks, even with sensor boosters fit.
I looked at T3s and most of them fail pretty hard but I think I've come up with a Proteus fit that just might fill the bill, and have some advantages compared to other fits as well.
Anyone else have suggestions? -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Rouge Drone
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Posted - 2010.06.10 22:45:00 -
[2]
I think you're really looking at a strategic cruiser.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.06.10 22:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rouge Drone I think you're really looking at a strategic cruiser.
Yeah, I've ran fits for all four types, and most of them just suck except for the Proteus, and that's mostly due to the fact that I can offload a lot of the DPS into drones. Too bad it can only fly four heavies. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.06.10 23:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/06/2010 23:16:23 It can be done by any BS with a covops alt.
Solo? Tough luck breaking most of the ships inside, particularly taking into account that sleepers like to switch targets.
Proteus would be OK more or less, but still anemic DPS to kill some of the pinatas you encounter, and nobody in the right mind is going to go through the tedium of wh hunting to kill crap fit Drakes and junk.
BS could in theory fit all the stuff, but you can't warp cloaked and your locktime will be measured in minutes.
WH hunting is for people with covops alts. Basically.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2010.06.10 23:21:00 -
[5]
Can you offline the launcher once a hit is made?
SKUNK (o)
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.06.10 23:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Le Skunk Can you offline the launcher once a hit is made?
SKUNK
IMO offlining/onlining modules just isn't practical from a time limitation standpoint. I don't have enough time to online multiple mods. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.06.10 23:55:00 -
[7]
Proteus is really what you want, only T3 that can meet your requirements all at once.
Dont think you'll get better overall performance given the task from anything else, but its gonna be expensive as you'll want some pimping, thats a drawback for a solo hunting ship imo.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.06.11 01:33:00 -
[8]
So, I put together a Proteus. It gets around 720 DPS with 4x Ogre IIs and three Neutron IIs with Fed Navy Antimatter and overheat. It can probe and cloak and has about 48k EHP w/o implants. Not too bad. I'll see how it works out. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.06.11 02:16:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 11/06/2010 02:24:52 Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 11/06/2010 02:19:06 Noooooooooo!
Last time the OP did a thread like this I spent 50M ISK playing with a well-fit Myrmidon. It was so good I had to get rid of it.
I see that the CPU requirement of the Expanded launcher is an issue. My exploration BC that I use for WH and 0.0 sites has TWO T2 CPU upgrades and I can tell anyone that it would be very nice to have that low slot back. I keep the expanded launcher because sometimes finding abandoned ships and T2 drones really pays off.
The cloak is not something a "hunter" needs. So that is scrapped.
Notably people are mentioning battle ships. There are some limitations on them in Wh space in regards to mass. be careful with that.
And finally, I have seen enough easily scannable sites in WH space without probes at all. The expanded launcher and combat probes are for those WHs that are already occupied and the warpable sites that come up on one scan are gone. Once I counted over 20 such sites in a system and when a hole opened up into noob space it would have been a smorgasbord of death and destruction had someone like the OP been in there, with no need for combat probes. It would have been as easy as ganking rat bots in belts.
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Andy Landen
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.11 02:56:00 -
[10]
Don't forget that Sleepers eat drones for lunch. If your drones hold the dps and the sleepers eat them (they constantly switch targets to the easiest kills), you can imagine how your ship would fare then.
Keep in mind that the expanded launchers are only required to find player ships/drones. Core launchers are fine for simply probing out whs and sites.
If a probing alt is not possible, then you may want to consider carrying around a small control tower to store your ships. Just ideas .. I really am not clear on what your objective is. The key to pvp is effective fleet teamwork. |
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Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.11 04:20:00 -
[11]
Purifier.
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How2FoldSoup
Hull Tanking Elitists
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Posted - 2010.06.11 04:54:00 -
[12]
Well i believe what your looking for is a Loki that does 400ish dps and has a 600ish dps tank.
Looking at the fit it costs around a bil though but i don't believe isk is an issue for you If you want the fit let me know and ill eve-mail it to you cuz i don't like to share my special fits.
Soup
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.06.11 05:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: How2FoldSoup Well i believe what your looking for is a Loki that does 400ish dps and has a 600ish dps tank.
Looking at the fit it costs around a bil though but i don't believe isk is an issue for you If you want the fit let me know and ill eve-mail it to you cuz i don't like to share my special fits.
Soup
Very special and SECRET fit!!! ____________ Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.06.11 06:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Andy Landen Don't forget that Sleepers eat drones for lunch. If your drones hold the dps and the sleepers eat them (they constantly switch targets to the easiest kills), you can imagine how your ship would fare then.
Keep in mind that the expanded launchers are only required to find player ships/drones. Core launchers are fine for simply probing out whs and sites.
If a probing alt is not possible, then you may want to consider carrying around a small control tower to store your ships. Just ideas .. I really am not clear on what your objective is.
if sleeper ai is craptastic enough to just shoot random drones like that......
oh hey drones, they aren't even shooting at us, LETS GET THEM FIRST!!!!!
.... wouldn't put it past ccp though
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:04:00 -
[15]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 11/06/2010 07:06:21
Originally by: RentableMuffin
if sleeper ai is craptastic enough to just shoot random drones like that......
oh hey drones, they aren't even shooting at us, LETS GET THEM FIRST!!!!!
.... wouldn't put it past ccp though
This shows you are not overly familiar with WH sleeper AI.
Bellum...don't overly rely on drones as the Sleepers (if about) will quickly gobble them up. From what I have seen I would suggest holding off attack until majority of Sleepers are gone as well lest you be surprised by sudden NOS+1000+ dps hitting your ship at an inopportune moment.
FYI...sig/speed tanking the Sleepers while pewing the target works. I manage it with a Crow on my other dude .
Also C1-C3 Sleepers are not so bad....get to C4's and it gets a bit sketchy trying to kill target+tank Sleepers.
Just as an observation Tengu/Proteus seem the way to go.
**edit**Be ultra fast with the probes. Like find the target within 5AU and only launch em if you have to. Most likely combat ships will be in anoms. Miner types will be in Gravi sites only requiring probes with brief exposure.
Tharrr be Hulks here arrrrrr
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Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers The Tusker Bastards
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:33:00 -
[16]
Well im pretty sure the proteus is where you want to go. Ive been trying to solve this problem for a bit (More for low sec use than wormholes). Mainly because im not sure the pilgrim is as great as its made out to be. Your pretty much stuck with only 2 options! The only t3 ships able to fit cov-op cloaks and sisters probe launchers, while doing large amounts of damage = Proteus + Tengu
Ill only show the tengu fit. You'll need a pg implant for this to work! Also the faction is not just for show (CPU issues).
500/dps (600heated) 46,000/ehp (50,000heated) 1400m/sec
[Tengu, Tengu] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Internal Force Field Array I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Dont know if this helps...
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Lord Sutekh
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:42:00 -
[17]
Basically as the other said the only great way to do it solo is with a t3 for the requirments you want. A BC or a BS might be able to pull it off but don't count your chickens before they hatch. Second it gets uber expensive really fast if you are talking t3. I am going to assume you are only looking to play in c1 - c3 sites. Gangs will work the best and either way you go a covops ship to get in and scan undetected first works the best. Even at that you are going to have to wait for the opertune time to attack and be fast about it. Those sleepers looooove drones for I suggest forgetting that idea. Keep in mind even c3 sites most run gangs just to kill in there. Best way to do it is a gang and even a pvp fit domi gang is pretty well restricted to c3 and below since they would get hammered in a c4 and above site. So in otherwords the expense to solo is not worth it so for a average pvp ship with a pvp fit will not do well in a w space without a gang.
Cheers
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Telvani
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:48:00 -
[18]
Not wanting to derail but it seems T3 is nearly necessary to solo pirate in WH. Anyone got any thoughts on a duo of ships? (especially gallente + amarr combos)
My current thoughts are curse + arazu (where arazu has the expanded probe)
basically the arazu sacrifices its turret CPU for an expanded probe, then fits the usual tackle + damps. Standard fit curse with a core probe, neuts. DPS comes from the drones and almost any ships should be fairly crippled under these 2 recons. DPS is lack from only 9 medium drones though
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Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.11 08:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Proxyyyy
Loki has over 450 dps in similar setup. Legio - over 400. And this dps is bad anyway imo.
But generally speaking these T3 force recons are awful. If someting goes wrong.. well, prot have 5 light/ecm drones and loki has a long web. And pathetic optimal and speed.
Don't like this allin1 fits.
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The'Best Hellfury
Incura
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Posted - 2010.06.11 08:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I can't seem to get a good Ishtar fit as the CPU is just too tight.
You were ALMOST there.
[Gila, WHY AM I MAKING FITS FOR BELLUM?????????????????????] Caldari Navy Co-Processor Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Prototype Cloaking Device I Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Curator II x7 Garde II x7
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Niveon
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Posted - 2010.06.11 08:35:00 -
[21]
No sorry, why the combat launcher? And of course a cov ops cloak is needed. |
Arthur Frayn
Edurus Erectus
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Posted - 2010.06.11 08:43:00 -
[22]
Widow?
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Domination Warp Disruptor Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets 'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I 'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I 'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I 'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I Improved Cloaking Device II
Large Targeting System Subcontroller II Large Targeting System Subcontroller II
Vespa EC-600 x5
All you need is a Zainou "Gypsy" KMB-75 Implant for +5% CPU to make it fit.
Is 339 Scan resolution(locks a frigate in 6 seconds, cruiser in under 4) + permajam + 730 dps enough? Do you intend to go after more than one target at a time? -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Copine Callmeknau
Targaryen Industries R.I.O.T
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Posted - 2010.06.11 09:33:00 -
[23]
lol @ these low dps, low tank, high cost T3 setups. You're doing it wrong.
Sent you a real fitting Bellum, enjoy :)
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.06.11 10:31:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 11/06/2010 10:32:23
Originally by: Arthur Frayn Widow? Is 339 Scan resolution(locks a frigate in 6 seconds, cruiser in under 4) + permajam + 730 dps enough?
No. No web, no scram, so more then half your targets will just mwd out of range and warp off. Full dps only to large BS or something like double extender drakes with shield rigs.
And really, solo without covops cloak ain't a good idea.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.06.11 11:04:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/06/2010 11:05:21 Problem: breaking uber-tanks before you get driven off
I've multiple times encountered stuff like NHs/etc which practically required really really good DPS (BS-level basically) and/or heavy neuting (does not tank so well w/out any hardeners on, ha ha).
I've had my 610 DPS nano/artycane which will do better then listed 730 dps proteus for the job (b/c of RF EMP ownage) get driven off easy without coming really close to breaking the tank.
Now, WH hunting is tedious because of targets being fairly scarce; if you do it with only the ability to kill miners and crap, I don't see the point of it.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.06.11 11:35:00 -
[26]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 11/06/2010 11:38:21 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 11/06/2010 11:36:59
Originally by: Proxyyyy Ive been trying to solve this problem for a bit (More for low sec use than wormholes). Mainly because im not sure the pilgrim is as great as its made out to be.
Pilgrim is sexy win for losec. For WH's I just found it too slow and prefer to use my Loki when snooping about.
**edit**Shame its not really possible to make a souped-up Pilgrim out of the Legion the way the Loki soups up its T2 counterparts. Even 700 DPS like many of the setups provide will not break the average decently equipped PVE Tengu...unless you neut it down...which is where the Pilgrim shines...and back we go in a circle.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2010.06.11 14:00:00 -
[27]
I kinda have to agree with Branko on this one, if you're just gonna kill miners why bother going for expensive, if you wanna take down the plexers you might not have the dps/neut to kill regardless what you bring if you're solo solo.
That said, here's a navy domi (I've used a tech 1 version of this one for fun before):
1x expanded prober 1x improved cloak II 2x heavy unstable neut 1x med unstable neut 1x medium named smartbomb (or another neut)
1x 100mn AB II 1x faint eps scram (pref faction with more range) 1x fleeting web (see scram) 1x sebo + scan res 1x heavy electrochem + navy 800s 1x med electrochem + navy 800s
2x LAR II 1x dcu II 2x IN EANM 1x EANM II 1x sig amp/eccm/1600 rt plate/cap power relay, depends on your style
1x aux nano pump 2x CCC / Egress port / whatever rigs
drones as desired bring loads of navy 800s, nanite paste and some exile
It kinda works and should be less expensive than t3, but you are sluggish as a Domi (300m/s but you have web/scram).. you can bring a mwd but you might get scrammed back..
All the above is prolly crap Drone Guide
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risingmoon parchseason
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Posted - 2010.06.11 14:23:00 -
[28]
Wh PVE setups tend to be overtanked and it's risky to uncloak till some of the sleepers are down. sleepers go after drones in a quite specific pattern which became pretty obvious after 2 months in a c4 with a static c4.
for single client work it's really difficult to be able to kill nice stuff, pilgrims work OK for shallow (C1, C2 work) especially vs cap dependent weapons and tanks. the best solo cloaky proby ship is probably the proteus for this sort of thing but your dps is always going to be low. 2 clients makes it much easier, with 2 clients (or friends) then i've had success with a probing falcon or rapier or arazu (all 3 have good and bad points) and then a dps ship with burst tank, for me its the sleipnir all the way.
whoever said that WH work was for those with alts was absolutely right, we regularly scan lots of systems to find stuff in WH whilst you are having fun elsewhere, me i love damsel in distress as you can't beat level 4's for excitement.
then race over to get the targets. found a nice loki to abuse in a wormhole, nipped in and out whilst some guys were doing the usual lo sec standoff on the high sec gate.
you also need patience to level 7.
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Owen Drakkar
Terra Nostra
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Posted - 2010.06.11 16:54:00 -
[29]
I have had decent success just using a cov-ops frig. Just have to go the few jumps back to home base and grab a BC and warp back to the BM I made on grid for the ambush. Kinda blows that you may lose them when swapping.
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The Tzar
T-Wrecks
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Posted - 2010.06.11 23:36:00 -
[30]
Edited by: The Tzar on 11/06/2010 23:39:40
edit changed drones to painters...
Certainly a lot of targets to meet with that spec, i'ts a horrible fit but would this work? If nothing else it's 'insurable'...
[Rokh, WH solo rokh] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Expanded Probe Launcher I, Combat Scanner Probe I Improved Cloaking Device II
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Valkyrie TP-600 x5
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels.StevieSG |
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