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Induc
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:04:00 -
[31]
Are you the kind of guy who posted "whrere aer teh commadn cntres???" questions for the past two weeks, and whined when there werent any seeded at 00:00 UTC today?
Yes, I thought so.
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Una Achura
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Narfas Deteis
Anyway, what was idea behind it? "Let's make PI unprofitable and then wait for... erm... full swing"?
Because until PI is in full swing there's absolutely no way it could keep up with demand, so orders can't be removed right away? But by all means, keep rabbling like some kind of internet space king.
But I'm sure making all my NPC pos fuels go from a few thousand ISK to a few million ISK would be a great idea. I just wish I thought of it.
But how will it _get_ to full swing when mining veld in a bantam might just be more profitable?
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Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:06:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Illwill Bill My dear fellow players,
Did you guys seriously expect all NPC orders to disappear over DT, so that all POS owners would have to fight for the scarce resources that will be put on the market today? Did really you expect to make loads of internetspaceshippixelmoney on ripping off everyone desperately trying to keep their operations running?
Actually, yes, I'm betting a lot of the whiners were expecting just this. They stockpiled POS goods without realizing the schedule that CCP planned and told us about. Now they have to whine because they are losing money.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:07:00 -
[34]
Speculators buying the product in the expectation of future price rises?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:15:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia Actually, yes, I'm betting a lot of the whiners were expecting just this. They stockpiled POS goods without realizing the schedule that CCP planned and told us about. Now they have to whine because they are losing money.
Really, I should be the one who's whining. I'm laughing so much it hurts at the thought of people not taking care to actually find out what CCP have said about the roll-out before doing this kind of thing.
Ow. My sidesą ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Cute Joe
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:32:00 -
[36]
everyone chill, npc sell orders will be removed in about 2-3 months
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia Actually, yes, I'm betting a lot of the whiners were expecting just this. They stockpiled POS goods without realizing the schedule that CCP planned and told us about. Now they have to whine because they are losing money.
Really, I should be the one who's whining. I'm laughing so much it hurts at the thought of people not taking care to actually find out what CCP have said about the roll-out before doing this kind of thing.
Ow. My sidesą
Right, because it makes sense that you build some P4s by buying from NPC orders, and that there are border-line exploits where you can buy from NPC, combine quickly, and sell to NPC for profit.
NPC orders have no place in this new system, and need to go asap. Stockpiles will hold everyone over, it's not like the world will end.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Illwill Bill My dear fellow players,
STOP WHINING FFS!
Just because the items are seeded on the market that doesn't mean you can't sell things cheaper. There will be a transitional period, where NPC seeding is neccesary to fill the current demand.
PI is not a money printing machine; it's designed to remove the dependency on NPC orders. You cannot expect CCP to remove the NPC orders until enough goods have been produced. Did you guys seriously expect all NPC orders to disappear over DT, so that all POS owners would have to fight for the scarce resources that will be put on the market today? Did really you expect to make loads of internetspaceshippixelmoney on ripping off everyone desperately trying to keep their operations running?
Also, low-sec is fine.
That will be all.
there are huge amount of stockpiles.Look my first post... knowledge is power |
Ti'anla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:15:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Ti''anla on 08/06/2010 15:15:50 Well, at least now we've a little evidence for who among the haters doesn't bother checking facts before shouting about CCP, and who here actually thinks a bit before launching into a rant >.>
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:23:00 -
[40]
So, if I understand PI correctly, tears are P1 and seeded on aqueous stupid threads like this one? - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:35:00 -
[41]
this is pretty bad and annarchytt is still a bad poster
failing to remove buy orders makes it clear no thought whatsoever went into the details of this
I didn't even plan out how to exploit this it's so dumb and obvious I considered it impossible ccp wouldn't at least kill the buy orders this is hilarious
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Magnus Nordir
Caldari Nordir Industries Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:40:00 -
[42]
The buy orders are obviously in place to maintain a price ceiling and prevent the PI cartel from charging a gazzilion isk for a week's worth of POS fuel. Now quit whining and make me cheap POS fuel! --------------------------- Only those who surrender are lost |
SamGromoff
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:40:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Camios Edited by: Camios on 08/06/2010 13:51:10 Lol at the whiners, as always.
NPC sell orders act just as a price ceiling.
Be sure to calculate how many isk you can make with just about any PI item if listing it under the NPC ceiling (hint: none)
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: SamGromoff
Originally by: Camios Edited by: Camios on 08/06/2010 13:51:10 Lol at the whiners, as always.
NPC sell orders act just as a price ceiling.
Be sure to calculate how many isk you can make with just about any PI item if listing it under the NPC ceiling (hint: none)
How dare you use your brain in a constructive way.
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King Gore
Sword and Pistol
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:44:00 -
[45]
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** - She holds me close and whispers wet, 'There are cannibals among us.' |
Juelia Wolf
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Posted - 2010.06.08 16:06:00 -
[46]
Sounds like people assume pos owners would have to wait for the market to stock in order their fuel. I know the only reason we're taking up PI as a corp is so we can make our own fuel for the pos's we have up in the wh.
Anything extra is a bonus, but the only reason is for the pos fuel. I'm not buying anything off the market fuel wise, except the stuff pi can't make. Like livestock.
They can keep the market seeded, or don't. SOTII corp doenst give a ****. And if we don't, neither should you.
Trust in SOTII.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 16:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Magnus Nordir The buy orders are obviously in place to maintain a price ceiling and prevent the PI cartel from charging a gazzilion isk for a week's worth of POS fuel. Now quit whining and make me cheap POS fuel!
Buy orders are a price floor not a ceiling
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Menkaure
Amarr LEM0N
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Posted - 2010.06.08 16:16:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Grozen
there are huge amount of stockpiles.Look my first post...
Why do I get the feeling you mean "I have a huge amount of stockpile and wanted to cash in on the fuel price spike, before PI industry got up and running. But can't cus CCP has more sense than that. Whine."
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 16:24:00 -
[49]
I'll post the short version here of the long explanation I gave an_an on our forums:
There are problems that could have been caused by pulling all seeds, yes. However the blatantly obvious things like not removing buy orders or ajusting seed prices to minimuze arbitrage opportunities indicates they didn't actually think this one through. There are loads of easy, better solutions that would have provided a greater incentive to do PI without causing price shocks. CCP didn't have the wit to notice them or realize the problems.
Well, off to figure out the best way to exploit this new idioticy lets see if I can get another outpost out of it toodles
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.06.08 16:25:00 -
[50]
Edited by: mental maverick on 08/06/2010 16:27:28
Originally by: Menkaure
Originally by: Grozen
there are huge amount of stockpiles.Look my first post...
Why do I get the feeling you mean "I have a huge amount of stockpile and wanted to cash in on the fuel price spike, before PI industry got up and running. But can't cus CCP has more sense than that. Whine."
I suggest reading up on stuff before posting.
If you had you would realise that even though those sitting on huge stockpiles cant cash in atm, they will be able to later and if you knew how much work it takes to do PI you would realise that those people will make a lot of money selling at prices that arent feasable if your producing it via PI.
I doubt that people sitting on stockpiles will whine very much if they know what they are talking about
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PotatoOverdose
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Posted - 2010.06.08 16:57:00 -
[51]
Edited by: PotatoOverdose on 08/06/2010 17:03:14 Obvious point: If PI is not profitable in the first place (i.e. npc sellers still exist), there is no motivation for people to invest there time into PI in the first place. If people don't invest there time into PI, PI will never enter 'full swing'. If PI never enters 'full swing', npc sell orders will never be removed. If npc sellers still exist, PI is not profitable in the first place. Catch-22.
Only way to make this work is to kill npc sell orders, creating a demand for PI, creating profit and a reason for people to invest in PI, causing PI to enter 'full swing'. PI can't enter 'full swing' before there's a demand for it.
You can't honestly expect the market to go into full production of something for which there is no demand. I thought CCP hired an economist?
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:05:00 -
[52]
Originally by: PotatoOverdose Obvious point: If PI is not profitable in the first place (i.e. npc sellers still exist), there is no motivation for people to invest there time into PI in the first place. If people don't invest there time into PI, PI will never enter 'full swing'. If PI never enters 'full swing', npc sell orders will never be removed. If npc sellers still exist, PI is not profitable in the first place. Catch-22.
Only way to make this work is to kill npc sell orders, creating a demand for PI, creating profit and a reason for people to invest in PI, causing PI to enter 'full swing'.
You can't honestly expect the market to go into full production of something for which there is no demand. I thought CCP hired an economist?
Exactly, NPC orders are lowering the demand for PI and making the market more stable, but at the same time most people are going to see PI as unprofitable (which is pretty much is with NPC orders in place) and move on to other things, which could permanently affect the growth of PI.
CCP should pull the tooth now and get it over with.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:08:00 -
[53]
i've been abused to be ccp employ and now speculant.While i'm just another PI newbie, as many people pointed out without npc orders removed pi ain't gonna work.However CCP will remove the orders in less then 2weeks because they just want to give producers a bit headstart so ppl with pos are not caught with their pants down when they need fuel. knowledge is power |
mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:35:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Grozen However CCP will remove the orders in less then 2weeks
Reference? To my knowledge CCP is keeping us in the dark for some reason.
Just FYI CCP, whiney threads like this wouldn't exist if you kept the player base fully informed. Especially in matters that have to do with the market and our hard earned iskies ;)
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:40:00 -
[55]
Originally by: mechtech Just FYI CCP, whiney threads like this wouldn't exist if you kept the player base fully informed. Especially in matters that have to do with the market and our hard earned iskies ;)
If you honestly think that I don't know what forum you are reading.
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:41:00 -
[56]
Of course the NPC orders are still there. What made anyone think they would not be for a few weeks at least?
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Circumstantial Evidence
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:50:00 -
[57]
After a few sales to the same NPC, what they are willing to pay goes down. All players studying this have the same chance and opportunity.
CCP could spin a storyline out of it: "Capsuleers outproduce established corporations in first week of land rush. [name of corporation] says it is reviewing its business model and will issue a statement at a special meeting of shareholders."
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Zartrader Of course the NPC orders are still there. What made anyone think they would not be for a few weeks at least?
Oh, just CCPs stickied post stating they would be removed June 8th
As of now there is no clear answer from CCP stating when or how the orders will be pulled, that's what most of us are waiting on.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:54:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Circumstantial Evidence After a few sales to the same NPC, what they are willing to pay goes down. All players studying this have the same chance and opportunity.
There's a floor, just like there's a ceiling for the sales. They'll just drop to that and then stay there.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:57:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Zartrader Of course the NPC orders are still there. What made anyone think they would not be for a few weeks at least?
Think it aint hard.
Also i wonder how long it will be pointless to mine half the stuff.
For how long it will last the supply of consumer electronics which i poorly estimate is about 60mil ?
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