| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
pwym NO
    |
Posted - 2010.06.01 10:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: pwym NO on 01/06/2010 10:07:21
Been having a discussion with a friend who apparently played long enough to criticise 0.0 lagfest battles. Not true however, since he only stuck around for the trial and listened to someone who was obviously very bitter towards the game.
When I hear people talk about 0.0 lagging like hell I always hear that they had to zoom out of the fight, their clients would freeze or crash or you know the rest. My question is, do people who criticise eve for lagging understand the difference between client/fps lag and server lag? Or in other words... What's your fault and what's CCP's fault?
I mean, honestly. EVE is like any other game. You can have spectacular effects and graphics with a very beefy machine and flawless internet connectivity with a good NIC and ISP, obviously there will be lag when 1000 players try to fight but no one ever notices when say a 500 person fight goes flawlessly.
What I'm trying to say is, the people who troll the forums about 0.0 being a constant lag fest are probably the same people who complain on games like call of duty 4 that they were killed because their PC froze up or their internet connection hanged. It's not my fault, it's not the developer's fault, it's your fault.
Discuss, do you think everyone who complains about 0.0 lag knows the difference between client/fps lag and server lag?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60wbT7EOJuI
|
Legs Mackenzie
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 10:09:00 -
[2]
Lag will never be resolved, as the more people a system is intended to support, the more people will bring. If they could magically fix lag to make 1000v1000 smooth, then next week people will be moaning about their 5000v5000 fight being laggy.
|
MasterOB1
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 10:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: pwym NO
When I hear people talk about 0.0 lagging like hell I always hear that they had to zoom out of the fight, their clients would freeze or crash or you know the rest. My question is, do people who criticise eve for lagging understand the difference between client/fps lag and server lag? Or in other words... What's your fault and what's CCP's fault?
The majority of cases it is CCP's fault. FPS is normally not a problem for most players, it is the loading of new sessions. E.g. coming out of warp, jumping into a system via a gate/ cyno/ un-docking or even loading the game int he first place. Activating modules is also another bad one as it can sometime take the server up to 20 minutes for it to realize you want a module online.
For some players, it's made even worse by being on a bad computer/ connection which ruins the fps as well. Which makes it basically unplayable.
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Lag will never be resolved, as the more people a system is intended to support, the more people will bring. If they could magically fix lag to make 1000v1000 smooth, then next week people will be moaning about their 5000v5000 fight being laggy.
I doubt many coalitions we be able to find 5000 players. As that would mean that 1/10th of the average server player count is fighting in one system. Highly unlikely. If they did make the game completely lag free, then you would see more people head into 0.0 and the map would change more frequently, the fights would also be awesome.
 |
Teinyhr
Minmatar
Nor'akho Matar
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 10:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: MasterOB1
If they did make the game completely lag free, then you would see more people head into 0.0 and the map would change more frequently, the fights would also be awesome.
Haha. No. People don't avoid 0.0 because of lag issues, but because they got ganked everytime they tried to get in there from the entry chokepoints. First impressions and all that.
|
Lord Haur
Amarr
Reaction Theory
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 10:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: MasterOB1
I doubt many coalitions we be able to find 5000 players. As that would mean that 1/10th of the average server player count is fighting in one system.
1/5th. 5000 v 5000 is 10 000 players, 5k on each side.
'Course, the practical barriers to achieving this (~20 fleets per side, voice comms, getting the actual numbers of players, and getting them to follow orders) are likely to prevent such a large battle occuring, even if the servers were able to handle it.
|
Batolemaeus
Caldari
Money Liberation Services Corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 10:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 01/06/2010 10:47:37
People have no clue about what lag is and use it inappropriately, non shocker.
Still, when we're talking about 0.0 lag, it's always the server. And the server has been behaving craptastic for a while.
Yet, even when talking about fps..client fps, especially UI performance, has taken a nosedive too since dominon..
Originally by: Teinyhr
Haha. No. People don't avoid 0.0 because of lag issues,
Yes they do.
|
Savatar Mei
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 11:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: pwym NO
it's your fault.
no its your fault.
(so is famine and the plague)
|
Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 17:00:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 01/06/2010 17:00:57
Edited by: Ban Doga on 01/06/2010 17:00:11
Just join SISI for one of those mass-tests and see for yourself.
Tweaking the client a little bit (disabling effects, no brackets, etc.) you can easily get comfortable 20-30 FPS out of a reasonable machine.
But that won't change the fact that your weapons take 2 minutes to activate, fire only once per minute and take another 3 minutes to stop again or that it takes 3 minutes to lock a target only to see that it actually died 4 minutes ago.
|
Zions Child
Caldari
Carthage Industries
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 17:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: pwym NO
Edited by: pwym NO on 01/06/2010 10:07:36
Been having a discussion with a friend who apparently played long enough to criticise 0.0 lagfest battles. Not true however, since he only stuck around for the trial and listened to someone who was obviously very bitter towards the game.
When I hear people talk about 0.0 lagging like hell I always hear that they had to zoom out of the fight, their clients would freeze or crash or you know the rest. My question is, do people who criticise eve for lagging understand the difference between client/fps lag and server lag? Or in other words... What's your fault and what's CCP's fault?
I mean, honestly. EVE is like any other game. You can have spectacular effects and graphics with a very beefy machine and flawless internet connectivity with a good NIC and ISP, obviously there will be lag when 1000 players try to fight but no one ever notices when say a 500 person fight goes flawlessly.
What I'm trying to say is, the people who troll the forums about 0.0 being a constant lag fest are probably the same people who complain on games like call of duty 4 that they were killed because their PC froze up or their internet connection hanged. It's not my fault, it's not the developer's fault, it's your fault.
Discuss, do you think everyone who complains about 0.0 lag knows the difference between client/fps lag and server lag?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60wbT7EOJuI
In nearly all cases, its the Server's fault. If it were client side, most people wouldn't be complaining.
One of the major problems behind the lag, is that CCP upped the overview refresh rate considerably. As the only data the server updates constantly in large fleet battles is the series of small and large boxes existing in a three dimensional plane, a higher overview refresh rate (which is where all that data goes) puts exponentially more stress on the server.
If you have 500 people on grid, that means that you have 249 500 relative distances that need to be updated every single time the overview
refreshes. If the overview refreshes every tenth of a second, the servers, not the clients, have to do 2 495 000 calculations every second, and send the results of those calculations to 500 different clients. 1 000 people on grid, and the numbers become 999 000 and 9 990 000.
You might say, but oh, that's not a lot of calculations, and then you realize that s just the distances on the overviews, and is not the calculations for resistance, damage on turrets and missles, etc.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
|
Camios Agent
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 17:57:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Camios Agent on 01/06/2010 17:58:11
Originally by: Zions Child
If you have 500 people on grid, that means that you have 249 500 relative distances that need to be updated every single time the overview
refreshes. If the overview refreshes every tenth of a second, the servers, not the clients, have to do 2 495 000 calculations every second, and send the results of those calculations to 500 different clients. 1 000 people on grid, and the numbers become 999 000 and 9 990 000.
You might say, but oh, that's not a lot of calculations, and then you realize that s just the distances on the overviews, and is not the calculations for resistance, damage on turrets and missles, etc.
lol
The server does not have to calculate all the distances between all the ships, there is no reason for that.
I hope that this thing is not coded
|
|
Cool Mayor
Point of No Return
Waterboard
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 19:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Cool Mayor on 01/06/2010 19:02:53
Originally by: pwym NO
What I'm trying to say is, the people who troll the forums about 0.0 being a constant lag fest are probably the same people who complain on games like call of duty 4 that they were killed because their PC froze up or their internet connection hanged.
It's interesting that you blame the lag criticism on people who don't know what they're talking about, because if you knew what the hell you were talking about, you'd know all about...
Cap1: Guns aren't cycling.
Cap2: Nothing online.
Cap3: Guns are dead.
Cap4: I have 1 active mod.
Cap3: Align.
Cap2: Desync.
Cap4: Get out. Get out. Get out.
Support1: Grid not loading.
Support2: They're already on the gate.
Cap1: Goddammit.
And this topic wouldn't exist.
|
Gilbarun
Avatar Dynasty
THE-FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 19:27:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Gilbarun on 01/06/2010 19:28:19
the server will only send to 500ppl what 500ppls client told him about their position in 3d space
thats relatively easy and wont eat much cpu power, the value you see in your overview is calculated by your own computers cpu
calculating an eve fight is relatively easy compared to other mmos (fighting a boss in wow) it would become really interresting when there was such things als line of sight with different hitboxes for every ship and single missile/laser/charge flying around and more player interaction (max dmg rotation of skills, quick reaction on events going on ....)
|
Cool Mayor
Point of No Return
Waterboard
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 19:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gilbarun
calculating an eve fight is relatively easy compared to other mmos (fighting a boss in wow) it would become really interresting when there was such things als line of sight with different hitboxes for every ship and single missile/laser/charge flying around and more player interaction (max dmg rotation of skills, quick reaction on events going on ....)
Could you explain this? At least in WoW there are no variables in boss encounters. You know the boss's base stats, it's attack rotation and what classes to take with you and what special procedures they should use (specific totems, spells rotations and so on). In fact, you can plan a WoW encounter down to within a few seconds of when said encounter should end based on "best possible scenarios". I know if no way to calculate the potential outcome of an engagement here considering every ship is fitted differently and the combination of ships you could be facing are literally limitless in terms of damage/repair potential - as is the numerical advantages/disadvantages throughout as people begin to drop/join a fight (whether this is PvP or PvE it doesn't matter because the same vast set of variables applies).
Lag happens for many reasons, some PC-based and some server-side. However, reducing lag as much from CCPs end is far more pressing, because it is something universally within the control of a single provisional entity.
|
SomebodyKickedMyDog
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2010.06.01 22:56:00 -
[14]
whoa...that video...that's a sweet boat!
|
Oscardoodle
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.06.02 01:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Teinyhr
Originally by: MasterOB1
If they did make the game completely lag free, then you would see more people head into 0.0 and the map would change more frequently, the fights would also be awesome.
Haha. No. People don't avoid 0.0 because of lag issues, but because they got ganked everytime they tried to get in there from the entry chokepoints. First impressions and all that.
Stop jumping into pf then noob.
So easy to get into 0.0 its almost painful/funny.
I apologize for having one of those sigs...Sorry.
I've just killed two parrots with one stone. Shadow. |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
|
Posted - 2010.06.02 01:44:00 -
[16]
Lag is more of a reason people in nullsec quit or stop logging in, I think.
Reasons people don't go to nullsec
-they are afraid of dying
-don't see the point (risk/reward balance)
-don't have the time necessary to devote to living there (this is me)
There will always be lag issues so long as bringing 1000 ships is better than bringing 700. CCP won't be able to scale their technology to the level of nullsec population growth. What is needed to fix lag is either a drastic rewrite of the whole game (and even then it probably won't fix it for long) or altering game mechanics so that bringing twice as many ships as your enemy isn't necessarily worth the effort.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |