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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:34:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Malcanis on 27/05/2010 10:34:20 Over the last decade or so, both in real life and increasingly in EVE, I have seen certain myths become common, to the point where they are widely assumed to be true. The odd thing is that this myths are obviously false. Now admittedly, they sound pretty good. They're actually quite nice myths, and in a perfect world, or maybe heaven, they could even be true. So like most myths, they have at least that element of truth to them. Or perhaps I should say "truthiness".
Anyway, here they are:
"Everybody's opinion is equal".
"You should respect my beliefs"
"It's wrong to mock someone's religion"
"I have a right to be happy", and the seemingly obvious corollary: "I have a right to not be unhappy"
"You have no right to offend me"
"I have a right to expect other people to look after me" with it's obvious corollary: "It is morally wrong to expect me to defend/feed/house myself"
There are others, but really they're all pretty much restatements or combinations of the above. All of them sound like something that ought to be true but all of them are, obviously, totally false. And yet seemingly otherwise intelligent people trot them out at the least provocation, both here on the forums and elsewhere.
I put it to you all that these myths, nice and genteel as they sound, are in fact actively harmful, and I believe that they should be challenged whenever they are encountered.
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Asarus Atreyu
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:49:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Malcanis
I put it to you all that these myths, nice and genteel as they sound, are in fact actively harmful, and I believe that they should be challenged whenever they are encountered.
I respect your beliefs, but i don't entirely agree
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Vogue
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:58:00 -
[3]
I would say that a civilisation that is unable to tackle dogma with vigor using comedy is in slow decline and far less unable to handle paradigm shifts.
Wibble
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:58:00 -
[4]
Let's rephrase them for the sake of posterity, so people will know how they should have been read
WRONG : "Everybody's opinion is equal". RIGHT : "Everybody's opinion should be considered and weighted on its own merit".
WRONG : "You should respect my beliefs" RIGHT : "You should respect my right to have my beliefs"
WRONG : "It's wrong to mock someone's religion" RIGHT : "It's wrong to oppress someone else's religion while promoting your own"
WRONG : "I have a right to be happy"/"I have a right to not be unhappy" RIGHT : "I have the right to try to feel however I please"
WRONG : "You have no right to offend me" RIGHT : "If you offend me, I will most likely respond in kind or worse"
WRONG : "I have a right to expect other people to look after me" / "It is morally wrong to expect me to defend/feed/house myself" RIGHT : "I have a right to hope people will look after me if circumstances completely beyond my control prevent me from doing that"
Could have been rephrased better, especially the last one, but, meh
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Taudia
Gallente Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.05.27 11:10:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Taudia on 27/05/2010 11:13:57 Edited by: Taudia on 27/05/2010 11:10:26
Originally by: Malcanis
"Everybody's opinion is equal".
If the matter is entirely subjective (music, art ect) I would think this applies. You cannot compare two pieces of music and objectively state one is superior, since there is no objective measure of their desirability. (for those that managed to read the last line here before I edited it, yeah I was very wrong.)
Originally by: Malcanis
"You should respect my beliefs"
People have a right to their beliefs, not other peoples respect, so I agree.
Originally by: Malcanis
"It's wrong to mock someone's religion"
Everything needs scrutiny and satire always has a place.
Originally by: Malcanis
"I have a right to be happy", and the seemingly obvious corollary: "I have a right to not be unhappy"
This one seems pointless to me. Either you are happy or unhappy or I guess indifferent. It is not something you choose to be unless you have some sort of condition I suppose.
Originally by: Malcanis
"You have no right to offend me"
Yeah this one makes no sense.
Originally by: Malcanis
"I have a right to expect other people to look after me" with it's obvious corollary: "It is morally wrong to expect me to defend/feed/house myself"
If the person is capable, I agree that this is false.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2010.05.27 11:12:00 -
[6]
Is the OP on some thinly veiled Republican soapbox? I didn't know there was an election on. Has there been another Teabag rally?
Delenda est achura. |
dr doooo
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Posted - 2010.05.27 11:35:00 -
[7]
Depending on which part of the world you live in, some of these statements are definitely not myths. I'm living in Ireland at the moment, and if you publicly mocked my religion (if I had one) I could use my right to bring the law down on you. Similarly, if for some reason I were unable to look after myself, then I'd fall back on my right to basic care from the state.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 11:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Wendat Huron Is the OP on some thinly veiled Republican soapbox? I didn't know there was an election on. Has there been another Teabag rally?
From what I have seen on the internet, Republicans are at least as likely to espouse these myths as anyone else, if not more so.
(It's just that they also believe in the myth that they dont. )
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: dr doooo I'm living in Ireland at the moment, and if you publicly mocked my religion (if I had one) I could use my right to bring the law down on you.
That makes it illegal, not wrong.
Originally by: dr doooo Similarly, if for some reason I were unable to look after myself, then I'd fall back on my right to basic care from the state.
If
Read the OP more closely. -
DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: dr doooo I'm living in Ireland at the moment, and if you publicly mocked my religion (if I had one) I could use my right to bring the law down on you.
That makes it illegal, not wrong.
Furthermore, I'm not living in Ireland, and I will freely assert that his religion - whatever it is - is a load of laughable nonsense.
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zombiedeadhead
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:43:00 -
[11]
Those are not Myths, they are fallacies.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: zombiedeadhead Those are not Myths, they are fallacies.
You should respect my belief that they're myths.
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zombiedeadhead
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: zombiedeadhead Those are not Myths, they are fallacies.
You should respect my belief that they're myths.
You should respect my right to be pedantic. Now, we seem to have a clash of rights here, how do we settle it...the usual method seems to involve violence I believe.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:52:00 -
[14]
Originally by: zombiedeadhead
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: zombiedeadhead Those are not Myths, they are fallacies.
You should respect my belief that they're myths.
You should respect my right to be pedantic. Now, we seem to have a clash of rights here, how do we settle it...the usual method seems to involve violence I believe.
YOU SHOULD RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH! ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: zombiedeadhead
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: zombiedeadhead Those are not Myths, they are fallacies.
You should respect my belief that they're myths.
You should respect my right to be pedantic. Now, we seem to have a clash of rights here, how do we settle it...the usual method seems to involve violence I believe.
YOU SHOULD RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!
THE USE OF CAPS HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED.
Delenda est achura. |
Malaclypse Muscaria
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:13:00 -
[16]
This all stems from confusing what is merely a convention society may subscribe to in general for the sake of being nice to each other and minimize conflicts, with truth. And in turn, this whole thinking about things in terms of absolute truths largely stems from the way religion has poisoned our minds and way of thinking through the ages.
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Vogue
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:29:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Vogue on 27/05/2010 16:31:05 Religion used to be opium for the masses now its consumerism. I think religion was a lot more popular many decades ago when life was a lot bleaker due to war and hardly any material comforts. Then people not so much looked for God for comforting answers but that life is toil and if you had a crap life you would be rewarded by going into heaven if you tried to lead a 'good' life.
Religion Is a very individual thing. I think if someone is fundamentally a sound person religion will enhance them. But religion has a snare. If someone does not do any personal introspection and interpret what it means to themselves as to what æGodÆ means then your doing painting by numbers morality. But you don't have support one team in particular if your interested in the sport. You can be spiritual and have a set of values that works for you.
Nowadays people think they are better than what they are and expect quicker easier gratification because of consumerism. This can create a gap where people have a front of 'yeah life is great' but they have a feeling of misery from competing all the time.
There is a place for a bit of arrogance that says 'This world can be so crazy, weird and cruel I am not going to take it totally seriously' This is not apathy but taking some things in a measured way.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:29:00 -
[18]
It's a myth that you are required to exercise your right of free speech at all times.
Your right of free speech does not exclude your right to STFU. --------
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Abrazzar It's a myth that you are required to exercise your right of free speech at all times.
Your right of free speech does not exclude your right to STFU.
The corollary to the "right to free speech" that most people forget is: the right to free speech doesn't require anyone to actually listen to you, to take you seriously, or to otherwise act on or react to your speech.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 17:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Malcanis on 27/05/2010 17:18:06
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Abrazzar It's a myth that you are required to exercise your right of free speech at all times.
Your right of free speech does not exclude your right to STFU.
The corollary to the "right to free speech" that most people forget is: the right to free speech doesn't require anyone to actually listen to you, to take you seriously, or to otherwise act on or react to your speech.
I have also noticed that people confuse the right to free speech with the right to not be wrong. How any times have you seen someone taken apart in an argument resort to the "Oh, so you don't dont believe in my right to say what I want? WHAT ABOUT MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH?" gambit? (This one is particularly popular with a certain kind of Republican btw. Hint: not the Goldwater kind. Hippies tend to go with the you have to respect my beliefs thing)
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:28:00 -
[21]
I know that my right to be right usurps everyone elses rights.
Originally by: Akita T Let's rephrase them for the sake of posterity, so people will know how they should have been read
WRONG : "Everybody's opinion is equal". RIGHT : "Everybody's opinion should be considered and weighted on its own merit".
WRONG : "You should respect my beliefs" RIGHT : "You should respect my right to have my beliefs"
WRONG : "It's wrong to mock someone's religion" RIGHT : "It's wrong to oppress someone else's religion while promoting your own"
WRONG : "I have a right to be happy"/"I have a right to not be unhappy" RIGHT : "I have the right to try to feel however I please"
WRONG : "You have no right to offend me" RIGHT : "If you offend me, I will most likely respond in kind or worse"
WRONG : "I have a right to expect other people to look after me" / "It is morally wrong to expect me to defend/feed/house myself" RIGHT : "I have a right to hope people will look after me if circumstances completely beyond my control prevent me from doing that"
Could have been rephrased better, especially the last one, but, meh
The voice of reason is strong in this one.
To the pyre! Burn, you heretic
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:41:00 -
[22]
I suggest watching Animal Farm.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
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Torque Daisy
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:27:00 -
[23]
I AM THE PAEDOFINDER GENERAAALLLLL
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Torque Daisy I AM THE PAEDOFINDER GENERAAALLLLL
Hopkins!!!! Cathedral kill all.
This post is full of win.
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dr doooo
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: dr doooo I'm living in Ireland at the moment, and if you publicly mocked my religion (if I had one) I could use my right to bring the law down on you.
That makes it illegal, not wrong.
True, but laws are the only form of rights you have. Anything else is just opinions. When you get down to it though, there is no such thing as 'rights', and no reason why you should expect people to behave in ways that you deem correct.
Originally by: Malcanis
Furthermore, I'm not living in Ireland, and I will freely assert that his religion - whatever it is - is a load of laughable nonsense.
That's my point.
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