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Hobart Anwyn
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Posted - 2010.05.12 15:04:00 -
[1]
Hey all Ive been playing about 2 weeks or so. I presently have Analytical Mind,Instant Recall and Learning all at 4. I have a total of a bit over 700k in SP. I know that after I pass 1 million SP I lose the noobie SP bonus.
My Question is should I take these learning skills to 5 now Or just wait and do them later?
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Sonk
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Posted - 2010.05.12 15:08:00 -
[2]
You lose the 100% training bonus when you go over 1,600,000 SP. So a little more to go.
As for learning skills, before training basic learning skills to V, be sure to train the advanced ones to at least III (If you have the money for them). Level V in basic skills it NOT a requirement for the advanced learning skills.
Level V learning skills take a real long time to pay for themselves. If I were you I'd leave them at a medium level (IV basic, III advanced or something) and train useful skills for a week or two. Later evaluate where you want your learning skills to be exactly.
If you are sure you are in this game for the long (years+) haul and really like efficiency, then sure, get them all to V as soon as possible.
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.12 15:11:00 -
[3]
it's 1.6 Mil SP when it changes - or to be more exact - when a skill that would take you over that limit then it drops down to normal speed.
as this is your 1st character - just train skills you need - you can do 4/4 on the learnings / advanced learnings later - you are much better off playing the game than grinding the learning skills - as 5/5 will only pay off after 3yrs of constant learnings, so train the things you need for the next ship mod etc... -- | Capital |
Hobart Anwyn
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Posted - 2010.05.12 15:16:00 -
[4]
Awesomesause. Thanks for the advice guys.
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Mithril Ryder
Genstar Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.12 22:43:00 -
[5]
Taking the base skills, minus charisma to 4 (char to 3), training to use and getting implants, and taking advanced learning skills to 3 will pay off fairly quickly. Don't forget you have 2 attribute remaps as well, which can and should be used to your advantage. I highly suggest not rushing into anything bigger then a cruiser sized ship without training some decent support skills. If you want some more in depth advice feel free to eve mail me in game.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.05.13 00:25:00 -
[6]
OK ... what I do ...
If I'm bringing up a new character (and want the challenge of bringing them up by themselves ... which I start out doing sometimes ... but after a while ... I usually give them some help) I'll follow a certain loose plan.
First a micro look at my first few minutes in the game.
0) Start Training Faction Frigate III
1) First off, I'll go out to the belts in the starter system and do mine and return with my rookie ship until I get 20k ISK.
2) Then - I'll buy a mining frigate.
3) Then I'll repackage my rookie ship - which will put all it's modules in my items hangar, then assemble it - which will make it assemble with a new miner and gun. This gives me two civilian miners and two civilian guns.
4) I take these two miners and put them on the Mining Frigate I just bought, then go out and do mine and return with that. As I get some more money I'll improve the mining frigate.
5) Once I've got Faction Frigate III trained I'll get the skill Faction Industrial, train that to level I and buy an Industrial and start training Hull Upgrades so i can use Cargo Hold Expanders.
6) Now that I have the basis of a mining operation - a miner and a hauler - I can re-run the Crash Course mission. I fly out there with my mining frigate and mine those asteroids into a jet can I label with the time. When I have them all mined (if you leave this mission space will go away) I bookmark my jet can (or the new one I made if the first one was getting old) and fly back to base to get my industrial to haul in my ore.
7) I sell my ore without refining it as I will get more money with no refining skills.
8) Here, I may buy and train some of my Rank 1 learning skills. They're easily worth training to Level III at this time. Also, here I am using my mining frigate and industrial to earn the money for my Rank 3 Learning Skills.
9) Somewhere along in here I will begin doing the Tutorial and Career Agent Missions. (If you mine all the asteroids in these missions they were worth in the vicinity of 30 million ISK).
10) I then train a combination of Learning skills and those skills I need at the moment to make money until I am done with the Learning Skills. Other skills I might train during this time is Salvaging and Destroyers so I can salvage my wrecks but I might just keep mining until I'm done.
Thus - the entire point of this approach is:
1) To get the practical skills with which to make the money to buy all your learning skills 2) To buy and train as much of your learning skills as you can while you are still under the 1.6 mil. cap.
Whether you ever mine anything else in the game or not - mining is the fastest way for you to make money at this point in the game.
If you are someone who is going to get so bored taking this approach that you quit the game - then don't do this.
I always train my learning skills to 5/4. I do that at the beginning of a characters career - and then they are DONE with learning skills and get the full benefit of them throughout their career. I almost never train the rank 3 skills to V so this is it for learning skills for me.
But - I'm a patient person who will work long and hard to achieve something that has a long term benefit.
This is how *I* do it.
How YOU do it - is up to YOU.
You are the only one who can judge what you are willing to do and what will make the game fun for you. Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.05.13 00:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk OK ... what I do ... *snap*
Toshiro is 100% correct. If you REALLY want to optimize your gameplay this is the way to go. Imo it's not really the most fun way to progress but it's definitely the fastest - in the long run. See learning as a car race - if you take some time to take care that it's the fastest possible you'll eventually overtake everyone.
So indeed, 5/4 is the way to go, although it's not always recommended for Charisma as explained a few posts back (although there seem to be more charisma skills in the upcoming expansion).
You also want to learn the Cybernetics skill as it allows you to use implants that can give up to +5 to your attributes - the best ones cost around 105 million each and require Cybernetics V.
Your attributes do nothing except increasing your skillpoints/hour rate. When you're learning level V skills you'll be happy that you have high attributes - without those attribute increases it may take 14 days to learn it while it may take 7 days with your attributes optimized. And trust me: there's a A LOT of skills that you'll want to have at lvl V!!
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.13 07:57:00 -
[8]
I beg to differ with Toshiro, and I have brought a couple of new characters up without any help from my main or other characters [for a variety of reasons]
what I tend to do is :- 1) start training racial frig 2) do the 2 tutorial missions and get the referral to the starter agents 3) start and do the missions for each agent - you'll get cash fast 4) buy the memory, intel Skills + the learning skills and queue them up in the correct order 5) complete the starter mission arcs [all 4 of them ] 6) as you get modules and skills from those agents train them so you can equip the modules or fly the ships 7) once you have got the memory intel and learning skills to 4 see if you wnt to do the advanced learnings [if you can afford them] - train to 3 8) then bolt in the perception | willpower ones [if training to level 4 of the frigate still it is worth dong these out of order]
9) always remember that if you do train them out of omital orders - all you loose is a few mins or tens of mins at the start - nothing to cry about at all
10) having done all the starter missions then move on to the level 1 epic arc - you should be able to do this with the stuff you have been given and learnt [though you may have to buy a few extra skills - to help along the way anyway] - though a couple of the missions including the end one may need some help from local - though I've always managed - but then again I know what I'm doing]
when doing the epic arc - it is probably wise to insure the ships you use for battles - as you may loose one or 2 - but get to know the market along the way also
but all in all - have fun - and keep your queue filled
-- | Capital |
Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.05.13 08:13:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Zartrader on 13/05/2010 08:15:41
The problem with learning skills is the optimum depends on how long you will be playing and your tolerance levels. Added to that they are needed when you're learning the game and wanting to learn other skills as soon as possible. There is more to the game than training learning skills, you would be better of learning the game itself by training up ships and actually flying them. The worst thing you can do is sit in the station bored to tears with a game quit imminent because your doing another learning skill.
A good balance to go for, as said, is 4/3 and maybe +3 implants. Then see how you feel from there, maybe aiming for 5/4 and +4 implants, keeping the +3 in a PVP alt. With PI coming up its still worth doing Charisma too to the same levels as others in my opinion. Also spread them out over a few weeks as you want to ensure you can fly and fit things you need to actually play the game. Personally I think learning skills are a big game flaw and loses CCP money, but that's another issue.
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Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.05.13 11:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zartrader
The problem with learning skills is the optimum depends on how long you will be playing and your tolerance levels. Added to that they are needed when you're learning the game and wanting to learn other skills as soon as possible. There is more to the game than training learning skills, you would be better of learning the game itself by training up ships and actually flying them. The worst thing you can do is sit in the station bored to tears with a game quit imminent because your doing another learning skill.
Personally I think learning skills are a big game flaw and loses CCP money, but that's another issue.
Agree with this, very well said.
Do away with them and the 1.6 mil double speed and make training capped at 3,000 SP/hr. With these expansions and myriads of new skills it becomes less and less attractive for new players to start all over again anyway and learning skills are extremely discouraging.
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foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.13 13:32:00 -
[11]
I strongly suggest you train learning to IV for normal and III for advanced, mixing it with normal training (do not do it all at once!).
Then forget about learning till you hit some 3 mil sp or so, when you are capable of flying some ship rather decently (lets say, good BC with t1 fit and some t2 splashed in).
Now, since you are quite capable of earning ISK by this point, spend some time getting your learning to V/IV.
This way you get most fun out, and in the end you are about 10 days behind the absolute maximum possible SP level. Those 10 days will be absolutely meaningless after you are in the game for a year ;)
Also, learn cybernetics to 1 so you can plug in some +1 implants. they help a lot and you get a few for free with starter agents/mission. _______________________ We come for our people! |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.05.13 17:03:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 13/05/2010 17:05:27
As you can see, there are a number of different ways of doing this - none is right or wrong - they're simply different.
As a new player - you have to be the judge of what YOU want to do. This is a game - read what others say - then do what you want.
One other item here I thought I'd mention:
1) All or your Rank 1 Learning Skills have Memory as their Primary Attribute and Intelligence at their Secondary. Each of the Rank 3 learning skills has it's own particular attributes.
2) The way Attributes work is -
The Primary Attribute is used at full force to modify your learning time. The Secondary Attribute is used at half force to modify your learning time.
Thus, the Primary attribute of a skill will have twice the effect of the secondary attribute of the skill on cutting down your learning time.
3) Thus - If you want to train your Learning Skills as fast at you can - you want to be aware of their Attributes - and train those first.
4) Here's a guide on Attributes and Learning Order. Be aware that some guides may offer an ideal solution (such as the absolute fastest way to do something) which doesn't take into account how much money you may have as a brand new player. They are good reading though to help understand what can be done. Also note that some guides are older than others. So ... if something sounds a little off - it may well be. Note both the post creation date - and - the date of it's latest update to give you a feel for how current it is. If something you read raises a question - then ask.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Hobart Anwyn
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Posted - 2010.05.13 17:30:00 -
[13]
Wow thanks for all of the great responses everyone.
For now I am going to focus on some of the other skills but I will be training the other learning skills in there as well. I realize it will take time no matter what I do :P
I found mining to be a bit boring but I have picked up salvaging and it seems to provide me with some nice additional income along with running missions. I know that in the future should i decide to, mining will still be there waiting for me. I do plan on picking up some exploration skills and I will want to mine more when I start doing that i think...
Isk doesnt seem to be a problem and I have a lot of skill books waiting to be used. Plus i have a ton of modules & mats from mission loot I can sell as well... I know people can (and do) make crazy isk but for playing for about 2 weeks 2 hours per day I am doing ok.
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