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GavinGoodrich
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.05.12 00:14:00 -
[1]
Edited by: GavinGoodrich on 12/05/2010 00:14:17 I've seen a lot of ships get away via *edit* ECM drones in various situations...all the way up to carriers. So I don't doubt those are fine as they are.
Nobody I know uses painter, web, damp drones because the extra DPS usually wins in terms of player opinion. A single mod can take care of a flight of drones, and most pvp fits are tailored to ships that can handle those mods you need, and uses the extra dps from the drones.
Is this just FOTM hooplah? Honestly...I'm not comfortable using the ewar drones. I think they're more or less underpowered, and trumped by a single midslot most of the time. What I've learned in the first 18 months is you could fly a ship that supplies the midslot ewar, or you fly something different. \o |
King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.05.12 02:02:00 -
[2]
Other than ECM drones they are pretty weak. I have on occasion used web drones but tbh they are very weak, it's more of a specialty thing. I think their effect needs to be increased from 20% to 30%. This would make them more appealing. I would also increase their velocity some, perhaps 2km/s instead of 1.5km/s.
TD drones have a similar issue, I'd make the heavies do 30% effect, mediums do 20% and lights do 10%. Currently the heavies do 25%.
Sensor damp drones need a big buff (as do sensor damps in general). I'd put them up at 50% effect for heavies, 35% for mediums, 20% for lights. The actual sensor damp module needs to be boosted as well, scripted on an unbonused ship should do atleast -60% to attribute and on a bonused ship should do around 80-90% with rigs and all lvl5 skills.
TP drones are and always will be worthless because TPing is generally worthless. As such I would give them +100% to sig radius for lights, +200% for mediums and +300% for heavies. They might actually get used on rare occasion then.
Energy neutralizer drones need to be as effective as their equivalent module size with a batch of 5. So 5x lights should be equal to a small t2 neut and the rest scale appropriately.
All of these changes would keep the current stacking penalties (neut drones excluded).
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.05.12 06:09:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 12/05/2010 06:10:24
Originally by: King Rothgar
TP drones are and always will be worthless because TPing is generally worthless. As such I would give them +100% to sig radius for lights, +200% for mediums and +300% for heavies. They might actually get used on rare occasion then.
Lol, I'm glad you are not in charge of balancing stuff in Eve. Your actual numbers are so ridiculously way off the mark its not even true.
Also TPs are far from worthless, fly a bomber or typhoon sometime maybe
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Ebilcaow
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Posted - 2010.05.12 09:31:00 -
[4]
For my personal experience with them in a wormhole, some PvP, more PvE:
One drake amongst a fleet of 5/6 missile ships running 5*light TP drones gives one hell of a boost on small stuff... Doesnt hurt on big stuff either, although sleepers will primary it, any defensive PvP you get into, drones are either good or smartbombed anyway. They're fine. Offensive PvP, meh, maybe run them on your bait ship, people will mock them, and then the bombers make a pass/whatever.
Webber drones are epic fail in PvP, anything worth running them on can fit a single web in a mid with ease. VERY poor use in PvE, as RRBS gangs can use 'em to grab sleeper BS so they can be held at optimal... Assuming the sleeper frigates, which often trigger, didnt kill all the drones before they got 10k from your blob... Fix or GTFO, frankly. (More strength is not going to solve the issue, extra speed would make them horrible good, 'fraid I've got no ideas)
TD drones are amusing, especially as most people wont be expecting it and may not twig to needing to change optimal while coping with the tracking nerf (what there is of it) in stride... yet to see them be worth more than a damage drone, however. Maybe extra speed?
Damp drones... well, I personally think damps are under-rated at the moment, but drones have such short optimals that they're just fodder if you're running a range-damping setup and trying to be unlockable, while the targeting speed option is, I admit, fairly much useless.
[/2cents]
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.05.12 09:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 12/05/2010 06:10:24
Originally by: King Rothgar
TP drones are and always will be worthless because TPing is generally worthless. As such I would give them +100% to sig radius for lights, +200% for mediums and +300% for heavies. They might actually get used on rare occasion then.
Lol, I'm glad you are not in charge of balancing stuff in Eve. Your actual numbers are so ridiculously way off the mark its not even true.
Also TPs are far from worthless, fly a bomber or typhoon sometime maybe
What exactly is off? In order for TPing to be effective, it must allow you to hit a target you wouldn't normally be able to hit due to sig radius/angular velocity/speed. So, if I want to hit a frigate with medium sized weapons, +300% sig radius is what's required to bump it up to cruiser size. That's 2 medium drones under my proposed buff. Keeping in mind I kept the stacking penalties so throwing another 3 on wouldn't make them BS size, they'd still be cruiser sized.
For sensor dampening to be effective, you must be able to break someone's lock while still in point range. So to be worthwhile, a harbinger, for example, needs to be able to knock a hurricane to something below a 24km targeting range with 3x mediums with the stacking penalties. Hence the numbers I came up with for it.
Energy neut drones I don't think require any explanation, ditto for web as I didn't really say they should get much of a buff, just a little one. For TD drones, see sensor damp drone explanation.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.05.12 10:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: King Rothgar The actual sensor damp module needs to be boosted as well, scripted on an unbonused ship should do atleast -60% to attribute and on a bonused ship should do around 80-90% with rigs and all lvl5 skills.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.05.12 11:17:00 -
[7]
You do realize that a bonused ECM module has a 100% chance of a jam on a BC or smaller right? Shouldn't roll your eyes so fast unless you want the falcon nerfed. 90% targeting range damp on an arazu would mean you could still lock someone from 5-6km with a BC. So technically, a falcon is still superior.
People should really take a moment to think about things before posting here. My ideas are drastic changes but are what would be needed to make EW drones and some mods as effective as other EW mods/drones.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.05.12 11:51:00 -
[8]
I think it would be enough to remove the stacking penalty when it comes to buffing TP, Webbing, Damp and TD drones, must be careful that they don't become equal to or better than fitting an actual module though.
EC-xx drones are already insanely powerful and could do with a in ability, perhaps cutting their range to point-blank only so that you can speed away from them to break a jam.
Neutralizer drones are pretty decent as is, limited usability but buffing them could result in them becoming too powerful so not sure tweaking them is wise.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.05.12 12:40:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 12/05/2010 12:41:09
Originally by: King Rothgar You do realize that a bonused ECM module has a 100% chance of a jam on a BC or smaller right?
No, I don't realise this. This is because it's nonsense. Do you realise that?
And even if it was true, it wouldn't be an argument for increasing RSD strengths on unbonused ships.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.12 13:20:00 -
[10]
The thing killing non-ECM EW drones is that dronebay is typically limited to bandwidth on most ships, which means no spare sets and so on. The opportunity cost of carrying situational EW drones over the non-situational and always useful ECMs or damage drones is too high (without actually buffing them to OP levels and making them a fotm/OP thing).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.05.12 14:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 12/05/2010 12:41:09
Originally by: King Rothgar You do realize that a bonused ECM module has a 100% chance of a jam on a BC or smaller right?
No, I don't realise this. This is because it's nonsense. Do you realise that?
And even if it was true, it wouldn't be an argument for increasing RSD strengths on unbonused ships.
Actually you're right, I just ran the math. A falcon only has an 83.75% chance of jamming a harbinger with a single racial jammer (2x ECM boosting mods, no rigs). Still, I think my general point stands. BTW I don't really support the ideas I gave for the EW drones, only stated what I think would be required to make them useful. I'm generally opposed to EW drones tbh.
In regards to neut drones being effective. I really don't see how you can make that claim. Which would you rather have, 5x heavies putting out 300 dps or 5x heavy neut drones giving the equivalent of a single small energy neut? Do keep in mind the heavy neut drones have heavy drone speed, so they aren't going to be catching any kiting tackler frigates.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.05.12 14:25:00 -
[12]
EWar drones need help.
I would like to see the light ECM drones get a speed boost. People whine that they need to be nerfed but I honestly don't see why. The strength is already pretty poor; when I have used them I rarely every get a jam. You're giving up a big chunk of damage in order to use them.
As for the rest of the drones... They could use a significant boost. It would be nice for them to at least approach the effectiveness of a single unbonused module.
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Yuki Sanada
Caldari Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: King Rothgar You do realize that a bonused ECM module has a 100% chance of a jam on a BC or smaller right? Shouldn't roll your eyes so fast unless you want the falcon nerfed. 90% targeting range damp on an arazu would mean you could still lock someone from 5-6km with a BC. So technically, a falcon is still superior.
People should really take a moment to think about things before posting here. My ideas are drastic changes but are what would be needed to make EW drones and some mods as effective as other EW mods/drones.
Not wanting to derail the thread even further, but iirc, that was exactly what led to the rsd nerf btw. The possible i-win card on other ships, non-specialized. (ishtars for one)
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.12 17:48:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Malcanis on 12/05/2010 17:49:36 Needs T2 EW drones tbh.
EDIT: ell oh ell at the "target painters are useless" assertion btw. I love my midslot damage mod!
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Dusica
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.12 18:02:00 -
[15]
they are fine ... ecm drones need t2 versions ... jamming drones would get only speed and hp buff and others tp web etc would get all that and more ecm strenght and better optimals etc. Eternal Will. |
Beltantis Torrence
Groovy Guns
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Posted - 2010.05.13 12:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: GavinGoodrich Edited by: GavinGoodrich on 12/05/2010 00:14:17 I've seen a lot of ships get away via *edit* ECM drones in various situations...all the way up to carriers. So I don't doubt those are fine as they are.
Nobody I know uses painter, web, damp drones because the extra DPS usually wins in terms of player opinion. A single mod can take care of a flight of drones, and most pvp fits are tailored to ships that can handle those mods you need, and uses the extra dps from the drones.
Is this just FOTM hooplah? Honestly...I'm not comfortable using the ewar drones. I think they're more or less underpowered, and trumped by a single midslot most of the time. What I've learned in the first 18 months is you could fly a ship that supplies the midslot ewar, or you fly something different.
They aren't very good. Neut drones are outright inferior to ECM drones. Painting drones improve your damage less than DPS drones would. The other drones are just too stacking nerf'd to be worth it.
Basically if you can jam the target out why would you bother trying things like damp'ing drones or neut'ing drones? By the time a neut'ing drone is effective the fight is already over. A good start would be to have them do some damage as well as ewar, so that at least in some situations they'd be useful. Or have them have ridiculous range so they don't need to keep up with the target. I could see people using neut drones in small gangs if they could focus fire on frigs/nano's that are moving fast.
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