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steave435
Caldari Final Agony B A N E
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Posted - 2010.05.06 18:25:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sokratesz Let me just add that you are trying to shoehorn an entire fleet into something that it inherently cannot be, because it's a game and people play it the way they enjoy it.
And my main argument is still that you are forgoing the shield supercaps and everything else that depends on shield reps. Yes, a theoretical amour- or shield-only fleet would be best, but it cannot be realistically attained.
A pure shield fleet can indeed not realistically be attained, due to the popularity of amarr, but caldari is rare enough to make it work. There are several alliances that are examples of this, bane, rooks and kings and PL to name a few (95%+ of the caps were armor when I was there).
Quote: That's precisely what I meant. Sorry for the lack of clarity. Do you really think people do this? Do you really think anybody is suggesting that they should? It's a straw man.
Yes. That is exactly what several people here are suggesting. They want people to bring whatever type of capital they own and fit it with the type of tank that that individual ship is, on its own, most suited for, and bring both armor and shield capital reps so that both shield and armor caps and super caps can be supported in the fleet. I am explaining why it's a bad idea.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.06 18:47:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 06/05/2010 18:47:40
Originally by: steave435
A pure shield fleet can indeed not realistically be attained, due to the popularity of amarr, but caldari is rare enough to make it work. There are several alliances that are examples of this, bane, rooks and kings and PL to name a few (95%+ of the caps were armor when I was there).
You know you can turn that around just the same way? There are a lot of chimeras out there, and nids/thans are better off with a shield tank anyway.
And they achieve a high % of armourtankers in fleet not because they force their members to train for those but because they only admit those to fleet. That means they were missing out on those who could have brought other ships but didn't. And you still have not provided a counter for missing out on dozens of shieldtanking motherships and titans that way.
VOTE SOKRATESZ for an unforgiving, unique and exciting EVE! |
steave435
Caldari Final Agony B A N E
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Posted - 2010.05.06 19:09:00 -
[63]
Quote: You know you can turn that around just the same way? There are a lot of chimeras out there, and nids/thans are better off with a shield tank anyway.
If you can get a pure shield fleet, I would go for that over a pure armor fleet. In every cap fleet I've seen though, archons have heavily outnumbered chimeras.
Quote: And they achieve a high % of armourtankers in fleet not because they force their members to train for those but because they only admit those to fleet.
Both in PL and bane, we have fits to armor tank all the carriers effectively. I have not been in r&k, so I can't speak for them.
Quote: That means they were missing out on those who could have brought other ships but didn't.
Nope.
Quote: And you still have not provided a counter for missing out on dozens of shieldtanking motherships and titans that way.
The people getting super caps are almost always people old enough to have capital alts for several races that they can train up for super caps easily. If the alliance they're in is focused on armor tanking, they will elect to do it with an amarr or gallente char. People that already fly shield super caps would in the same way usually be able to sell it and get an armor one instead. Sure, you may loose a small amount, but the huge performance increase for the others will make it worth it anyway.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.06 21:03:00 -
[64]
Le sigh.
VOTE SOKRATESZ for an unforgiving, unique and exciting EVE! |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.08 19:25:00 -
[65]
Hey, can I snag the Triage fits you were talking about for the Archon and Nidhoggur? I'm having a lot of trouble tanking 21K DPS on a single overheated rep in the Archon.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.08 19:46:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Hey, can I snag the Triage fits you were talking about for the Archon and Nidhoggur? I'm having a lot of trouble tanking 21K DPS on a single overheated rep in the Archon.
-Liang
You have to buy EFT Premium for those numbers.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.08 21:39:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 08/05/2010 21:46:07 Easier with dual rep.
With single rep it is just a matter of using enough low slots, you end up kinda low on cap then though. (Using drugs)
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.09 14:11:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 08/05/2010 21:46:07 Easier with dual rep.
With single rep it is just a matter of using enough low slots, you end up kinda low on cap then though. (Using drugs)
It seems *really* low on cap if you try to pull that off.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.10 17:22:00 -
[69]
Bump. I am still looking for all these magic triage carrier fits.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Plocsk
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Posted - 2010.05.10 17:32:00 -
[70]
Archon is the best carrier because you won't be asked to go on "repair the POS shield" ops.
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Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
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Posted - 2010.05.10 19:44:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Ninetails o''Cat on 10/05/2010 19:47:08
Originally by: Liang Nuren Bump. I am still looking for all these magic triage carrier fits.
-Liang
With full implants (Numon's, Imperial Spec Ops, and ZET4000) and a strong exile pill:
[Archon, Archon] Capital Armor Repairer I Draclira's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Draclira's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Draclira's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II [empty low slot] [empty low slot]
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Triage Module I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
But...
Also:
[Archon, Archon] Capital Armor Repairer I Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Damage Control II
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Triage Module I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Over heat two of the hardeners and the rep.
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GavinCapacitor
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Posted - 2010.05.10 20:03:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Plocsk Archon is the best carrier because you won't be asked to go on "repair the POS shield" ops.
I've been looking into this recently, is there really no way to make an archon able to rep a [large] POS shield? That seems to be one of the main functions of a carrier (there is alot of tangible benefit).
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.10 20:13:00 -
[73]
Originally by: GavinCapacitor I've been looking into this recently, is there really no way to make an archon able to rep a [large] POS shield? That seems to be one of the main functions of a carrier (there is alot of tangible benefit).
I guess you could rep the incap'ed modules or something. But repping the tower itself? No.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.11 12:04:00 -
[74]
Originally by: GavinCapacitor
Originally by: Plocsk Archon is the best carrier because you won't be asked to go on "repair the POS shield" ops.
I've been looking into this recently, is there really no way to make an archon able to rep a [large] POS shield? That seems to be one of the main functions of a carrier (there is alot of tangible benefit).
yes, bring one- to give chimeras cap and to rep mods.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.11 12:18:00 -
[75]
Dunno, what happens when you let the tower run out of fuel just after it leaves RF, then its forcefield should drop, can you then rep its shields with archon and refuel the tower again? (Yeah i know it isnt good idea, just wonder if it is possible).
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steave435
Caldari Final Agony B A N E
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Posted - 2010.05.11 18:48:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Hey, can I snag the Triage fits you were talking about for the Archon and Nidhoggur? I'm having a lot of trouble tanking 21K DPS on a single overheated rep in the Archon.
-Liang
You must have misunderstood what I meant - only 1 overheated repper, but 2 reppers total. [Archon, Triage 1 eanm] Damage Control II Capital Armor Repairer I Capital Armor Repairer I Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Large 'Notos' Explosive Charge I Triage Module I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Add Damnation and strong exile. Unless you're unlucky (30% chance) amd get a capacitor penalty, it tanks 21 231 dps for 4:28 (this number will ofcourse vary a bit though since overheat duration can't be calculated exactly) and then 18 509 permanently when you stop overheating the repper. It even has cap left to RR a bit. If you do get the capacitor penalty, the tank does drop a bit, but it's still really good at 19 377 "perma" heated, 18 288 perma when not heated, cap last 10 mins if you're starting from full and heating, 33 mins without heat.
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