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Omira Tan	Posted - 2010.04.28 11:40:00 - [31] Edited by: Omira Tan on 28/04/2010 11:40:35 People, don't be fooled by all these grandstanding PvP-ers: it's cute how all y'all pretend to generate vast amounts of ISK on your PvP roaming streaks and all, but the central source of income for most people -- yes, that includes you -- is high-sec missioning. So, cut the crap! How things currently are is how they should be. High-sec is a place to generate income to pay for your ships and stuff. Take away from one end of the equation, and you'll also diminish the other. Besides, us mission-faring carebears already have to contend with you gankers out there. So, plenty of risk already.
Higgs Foton hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.28 11:50:00 - [32] I think missions are fine the way they are. They provide good income for a lot of people to pay for fun stuff, and help get new players some experience. Also: If you play this game since 04, and start whining about how boring missioning is, you sound to me like some grown up kid who refuses to leave kindergarten and demands better toys. Go low-sec, 0.0, or Wormhole if you want better action. I want lvl4's the way they are now. Dumb and easy, so i can make some ISK easy to do things which are FUN, like shooting real people in ships (together with my BFF) in stead of some advanced AI routine. If i want to do that i can go for a single player game. If thats what you want, Elite or Privateer the darkening may be better games for you. Also: i found that a good alternative to boring missions is plexing in 0.0. There is the added fun of scanning out signatures, the suprise of what you get (Oh noes! another wormhole!), and the possibility of PHAT JEWCY LEWT. Plexing is boring too, but if you walk out with 1,5 billion in faction and deadspace modules, it sure does make up for a lot. :D ___________________________________ http://www.myspace.com/higgsphoton Higgs Foton on Myspace! Click to hear tunes!
Punkt Landung	Posted - 2010.04.28 13:27:00 - [33] You stinking carebear. L4 hi-sec missions are there to provide money for pvp - Eve's raison d'etre. If you are playing L4 missions as a 1 player PVE game you will find it to be a souless pile of claptrap, it isn't there to entertain or amuse you, you critisise it but totally miss the point of what it is there for. CCP have provided you with loads of exciting PVE content but you don't seem to be interested in that. Why is that? Of course! You might have to (God Forbid) come in to contact with a human player who might shoot at you! You have millions of SP so there is no challenge in L4, you want the 'illusion' of challenge but without the risk of ever leaving empire. You probably want hard NPC but still have the option to warp out? You sir are a stinking carebear, the moment you started losing your faction fitted stuff on a regular basis in missions you would be whining to CCP that missions are too hard.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.04.28 13:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Ranka Mei Originally by: Mendolus It seems some tool posts a thread of this nature every few weeks lately. What gives? Did you miss the memo about wormholes? And did you miss the memo about wormholes being 0.0 space? Sure, you get tougher NPC's; but you also get every other PVP player in your neck. He asked for more challenge. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.04.28 14:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Punkt Landung You stinking carebear. L4 hi-sec missions are there to provide money for pvp - Eve's raison d'etre. If you are playing L4 missions as a 1 player PVE game you will find it to be a souless pile of claptrap, it isn't there to entertain or amuse you, you critisise it but totally miss the point of what it is there for. CCP have provided you with loads of exciting PVE content but you don't seem to be interested in that. Why is that? Of course! You might have to (God Forbid) come in to contact with a human player who might shoot at you! You have millions of SP so there is no challenge in L4, you want the 'illusion' of challenge but without the risk of ever leaving empire. You probably want hard NPC but still have the option to warp out? You sir are a stinking carebear, the moment you started losing your faction fitted stuff on a regular basis in missions you would be whining to CCP that missions are too hard. Exactly exactly exactly, finally someone points out the obvious. Anyone who asks for more challenge in a static empire environment mission is just kidding themselves. TBH four weeks after any new more challenging missions are released for all the bears in Empire, everyone will have figured out all the new tricks, written guides on it, posted new updated fittings for all the FOTM mission boats, posted which mission boats are now obsolete, which ones are now viable, etc. and it'll all be back to where it was a month before. To anyone who agrees with the OP, do not kid yourself into thinking that you can have added challenge without a tangible change in the risk versus reward scenario that skews more towards risk, of which CCP has already devoted more than ample time and an entire TWO expansions to providing in the form of wormholes and the new anomaly system. FFS does anyone like the OP ever really think these things out, or do they just open their mouth and wait for mommy CCP to vomit more slop into their bellies? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.28 19:52:00 - [36] Edited by: Ranka Mei on 28/04/2010 19:54:22 Originally by: Mendolus You stinking carebear. L4 hi-sec missions are there to provide money for pvp - Eve's raison d'etre. If you are playing L4 missions as a 1 player PVE game you will find it to be a souless pile of claptrap, it isn't there to entertain or amuse you, you critisise it but totally miss the point of what it is there for. CCP have provided you with loads of exciting PVE content but you don't seem to be interested in that. Why is that? Of course! You might have to (God Forbid) come in to contact with a human player who might shoot at you! You have millions of SP so there is no challenge in L4, you want the 'illusion' of challenge but without the risk of ever leaving empire. You probably want hard NPC but still have the option to warp out? You sir are a stinking carebear, the moment you started losing your faction fitted stuff on a regular basis in missions you would be whining to CCP that missions are too hard. You stinking PvP-er! You have millions of SP, so you could fight anyone alone. Yet all y'all never do, do you? You lie in wait in your roaming gangs, carefully calculating which unsuspecting missioner you can take. You want the 'illusion' of challenge and honor, but without the risk of actually losing your ship. And should you lose one, after all, you rely on your local Insurance Company to pick up the bill for your suicide ganks. You have 30+ ships ready at a gate to pounce on your lonesome victim. And when it looks like the odds are more or less going to be even, you immediately resort to blobbing! Wouldn't ever want to be caught fighting an honest fight, would you? CCP have provided you with loads of exciting ships and ways to do 1-on-1 PvP, but all y'all don't seem to be interested in that. Why is that? Of course! You might, God Forbid, actually encounter someone who can win. Can't have that, can we?! Always looking for the smaller fish. You people sicken me! You, Sir, are a stinking PvP-er. Your entire existence is based on a cowardice you peddle as the next thing in bravery. Oh, brave New Eden, that has such creatures in it! -- Gorgeous, delicious, deculture!
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.04.28 20:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Ranka Mei Edited by: Ranka Mei on 28/04/2010 19:54:22 Originally by: Mendolus You stinking carebear. L4 hi-sec missions are there to provide money for pvp - Eve's raison d'etre. If you are playing L4 missions as a 1 player PVE game you will find it to be a souless pile of claptrap, it isn't there to entertain or amuse you, you critisise it but totally miss the point of what it is there for. CCP have provided you with loads of exciting PVE content but you don't seem to be interested in that. Why is that? Of course! You might have to (God Forbid) come in to contact with a human player who might shoot at you! You have millions of SP so there is no challenge in L4, you want the 'illusion' of challenge but without the risk of ever leaving empire. You probably want hard NPC but still have the option to warp out? You sir are a stinking carebear, the moment you started losing your faction fitted stuff on a regular basis in missions you would be whining to CCP that missions are too hard. You stinking PvP-er! You have millions of SP, so you could fight anyone alone. Yet all y'all never do, do you? You lie in wait in your roaming gangs, carefully calculating which unsuspecting missioner you can take. You want the 'illusion' of challenge and honor, but without the risk of actually losing your ship. And should you lose one, after all, you rely on your local Insurance Company to pick up the bill for your suicide ganks. You have 30+ ships ready at a gate to pounce on your lonesome victim. And when it looks like the odds are more or less going to be even, you immediately resort to blobbing! Wouldn't ever want to be caught fighting an honest fight, would you? CCP have provided you with loads of exciting ships and ways to do 1-on-1 PvP, but all y'all don't seem to be interested in that. Why is that? Of course! You might, God Forbid, actually encounter someone who can win. Can't have that, can we?! Always looking for the smaller fish. You people sicken me! You, Sir, are a stinking PvP-er. Your entire existence is based on a cowardice you peddle as the next thing in bravery. Oh, brave New Eden, that has such creatures in it! I believe you misquoted, {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.28 20:20:00 - [38] Edited by: Ranka Mei on 28/04/2010 20:20:57 Originally by: Mendolus I believe you misquoted, You're right. Hontou ni moshiwake gozaimasen! :) I fixed it. -- Gorgeous, delicious, deculture!
Punkt Landung	Posted - 2010.04.28 21:12:00 - [39] Originally by: Ranka Mei Edited by: Ranka Mei on 28/04/2010 20:15:48 Originally by: Punkt Landung You stinking carebear. L4 hi-sec missions are there to provide money for pvp - Eve's raison d'etre. If you are playing L4 missions as a 1 player PVE game you will find it to be a souless pile of claptrap, it isn't there to entertain or amuse you, you critisise it but totally miss the point of what it is there for. CCP have provided you with loads of exciting PVE content but you don't seem to be interested in that. Why is that? Of course! You might have to (God Forbid) come in to contact with a human player who might shoot at you! You have millions of SP so there is no challenge in L4, you want the 'illusion' of challenge but without the risk of ever leaving empire. You probably want hard NPC but still have the option to warp out? You sir are a stinking carebear, the moment you started losing your faction fitted stuff on a regular basis in missions you would be whining to CCP that missions are too hard. You stinking PvP-er! You have millions of SP, so you could fight anyone alone. Yet all y'all never do, do you? You lie in wait in your roaming gangs, carefully calculating which unsuspecting missioner you can take. You want the 'illusion' of challenge and honor, but without the risk of actually losing your ship. And should you lose one, after all, you rely on your local Insurance Company to pick up the bill for your suicide ganks. You have 30+ ships ready at a gate to pounce on your lonesome victim. And when it looks like the odds are more or less going to be even, you immediately resort to blobbing! Wouldn't ever want to be caught fighting an honest fight, would you? CCP have provided you with loads of exciting ships and ways to do 1-on-1 PvP, but all y'all don't seem to be interested in that. Why is that? Of course! You might, God Forbid, actually encounter someone who can win. Can't have that, can we?! Always looking for the smaller fish. You people sicken me! You, Sir, are a stinking PvP-er. Your entire existence is based on a cowardice you peddle as the next thing in bravery. Oh, brave New Eden, that has such creatures in it! EDIT: Misattribution corrected. I have bedimm'd the noontide sun, call'd forth the mutinous winds, And 'twixt the green sea and the azured vault Set roaring war: to the dread rattling thunder Have I given fire and rifted Jove's stout oak With his own bolt; the strong-based promontory Have I made shake and by the spurs pluck'd up The pine and cedar: graves at my command Have waked their sleepers, oped, and let 'em forth By my so potent art. Not all PVP is glorious, you get ganked, you gank back, you blob, you *****, you moan but every now and again PVP throws up something epic, something stellar, something so special you remember why you love the game so much. PVE wonFt ever deliver this because the intelligence is artificial. Let it exist as intended to fuel PVP and please stop calling for developer time to be wasted on PVE when they could be fixing rockets.
hgedsku	Posted - 2010.04.28 21:14:00 - [40] Guys no matter how hard CCP makes missions people will eventually 'figure them out' and find the most optimal ways to do them. Then people will start grinding them. This will eventually lead to same problem all over again. Really the only way to add any risk to npcing is by having the risk and unpredictability of other players being able to kill you. This is why wormholes, lowsec/0.0 mission and explorations are there for. Go there if you want a challenge and some risk. It's really not that hard to avoid or get through gate camps if you have a scout, look at the starmap for info or if your using a covert ops. In wormholes just find a deep enough hole and a good corp for protection. Sure you will lose a ship once in a while but that is why the risk is there. In my opinion, highsec missions have 0 risk. There are there solely to make isk so you can do other stuff in the game. If you want to make npcing your Eve career and also want it to be fun then go elsewhere.

Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.04.28 21:28:00 - [41] While I agree that missions could use some work.. EVE is more about making the game interesting for yourself. If missions aren't "doing it" for you, do something else. BTW, missions = boring, yes. Missions = easy? That's relative. Of course it's easy for those of us flying pimped ships with good skills to do so. There's nothing to "fix" in that regard. But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.28 22:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Punkt Landung Not all PVP is glorious, you get ganked, you gank back, you blob, you ***, you moan but every now and again PVP throws up something epic, something stellar, something so special you remember why you love the game so much. PVE wonFt ever deliver this because the intelligence is artificial. I would agree on that. Quote: Let it exist as intended to fuel PVP... Exactly. So let's no mess with it. Quote:** ... and please stop calling for developer time to be wasted on PVE when they could be fixing rockets. I wouldn't mind if the devs fixed up PvE a bit. For one, I'd like there to be some 'transitional' missions, that have maybe like just 1 opposing ship, that fires full volleys, instead of just pathetic 1x missile per shot, like current NPC rats. :) (you'd think rats had figured out grouping by now). And even have a special 'transitional' agent for it, so people who feel they are ready to get some PvP going can go train some, without immediately losing their ships in the first blob. -- Gorgeous, delicious, deculture!
ElementalWind Gallente New Eden Trinity Coalition of Free Stars	Posted - 2010.04.28 22:05:00 - [43] Missions need to spit out millions more isk. [/win] Theres not enough easy ways to make money in this game. Screw your precious market. I just want to get stuff without having to waste hours of my life a day working in the game (after working a full time job in real life) only to be able to play the game and enjoy pvping.
Larinioides cornutus	Posted - 2010.04.29 10:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Nede*** solution : remove all lvl 3 and lvl 4 agents from highsec, leave them all in lowsec Since Apoc, blitzing lv5 or lv4 FW missions using unprobable stratergic cruisers has been the new ISK printing machine with upward 150m ISK/h in LP alone. I suggest you to update your whine list.
Omira Tan	Posted - 2010.04.29 14:07:00 - [45] Originally by: Larinioides cornutus Originally by: Nede*** solution : remove all lvl 3 and lvl 4 agents from highsec, leave them all in lowsec Since Apoc, blitzing lv5 or lv4 FW missions using unprobable stratergic cruisers has been the new ISK printing machine with upward 150m ISK/h in LP alone. I suggest you to update your whine list. There's no such thing as a (viable) unprobable T3 mission runner. If there is, I'll show you a FAIL fit.
RentableMuffin	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:38:00 - [46] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Isn't this sort of forcing people to play a certain way, going against the open nature of the sandbox EvE has some basic definitions: - has PvP elements - has unconsensual elements - is a MMO and not a solo game. Therefore EvE is not a pure sandbox. Being a MMO, you will interact with others, being unconsensual you are supposed to be on the receiving end of something hostile, being PvP you can get killed. This IS forcing you to play in a certain way. Quote: Wait, I have an idea! Why don't we move all lv 3 and 4 missions to low-sec, AND cut all the old playesr to 1M SP? If this does not happen, I am fine. If it happens, I'd love it. I'd be able to play in the same league of the older characters. Quote: "missioning takes no skill" lol Well, that's true. Should not be even possible for a guy in a T1 fitted BC to complete every L4 attempted, but it is. I am fairly sure that missions can be completely botted, it's really a linear and faithfully repeating action => reaction sequence. I thought the whole someone else is free to walk over and kick your sandcastle over was an inherent part of the sandbox definition? if you wanted to nitpick "the sandbox" you might as well have said my sand shovel only digs I can't hit people with it (aka why don't strip miners work vs ships). this interaction does not force you to do anything. saying you can't do something is completely different from saying you shouldn't. so what if I want to fly a billion isk deadspace fit frigate! I wouldn't mind seeing lv 3/4s in lowsec, but first we must expand lowsec. not enough lowsec to handle that at this point (imho). Also I'm not fully convinced Lv4s are that unbalanced that the only thing to do is move them to lowsec. and vv I thought you were MD elite at this point go buy an 03 char or something. and I feel that a "faithful repetition" bot would have some trouble with missions but throw a little bit of logic at it and well, yes I think missions are easily botable. but hell, I think almost any activity in eve is botable. (hmm I think I might just be saying the same thing you were here.)
Umega Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.04.29 23:25:00 - [47] If you seriously want to make missioning more enjoyable.. cut down on the rewards gained by doing them. Make that ship you fly feel more important, more valuable.. make a set of high end modules purchased and their bonuses feel more significant when it takes more to achieve them. Make it harder to make the isk you earn produce the material possessions you crave. That's how you fix PvE in EVE. This is a game with a story and history created by the players between players. Hence, sandbox. Making missions more challanging does nothing cept turn EVE into your typical run-o-mill MMO where players band together to defeat.. a computer program. When EVE is about players banding together to defeat.. players. Want rich storylines that you really can't actual control or change, but are cool to do with good rewards and some being ridiculous difficult to do, and need friends to do them. I recommend ffxi. Want somewhat more difficult than EVE battle field like missions that are more complex than eve, with a somewhat entertaining storyline that again, you don't really end up effecting the 'world' as a whole when you do them.. but still get to enjoy some irrelevent PvP kicks. I recommend WoW. Want to make EVE actually better in what it does? And that IS its PvP. You cut off a limb. You make people want to fight for that protestic limb. You make it harder for people to fatten their wallets, decrease the amount of 'stored' isk to increase the demand for isk.. increasing escalution across all fronts of EVE PvP to obtain harder to earn isk to get into harder to purchase ships. God forbid if that makes sense.. cutting down how much isk one makes from missions n bounties to make your game more enjoyable.. but in the case of EVE, I assure you if done right across the board.. it would make for a better game. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.30 06:39:00 - [48] Its not a problem at all, not a single bit, none whatsoever. When you have enough skill points, you can start doing level 4's. You grow into your ship and continue to do level 4's. The more skills you learn, the faster and easier it gets. The risk that you will die is relatively high at low skill points and decreases as you advance. Once you have played them and skilled into your ship, then got some T2 billion ISK mission runner, guess what? You could be making way more ISK RISKING your ship somewhere else. When you say "making 30 mil ISK" an hour is "not fair risk to reward", you are talking out your ass. A years worth of skills and a billion ISK to net 30 million an hour is a **** poor return. You would make WAY more ISK risking your ship in wormholes, nullsec, level 5's. If you have done every level 4 mission over and over you have been playing long enough to get variety and more ISK elsewhere. You cant have infinite mission content, there's plenty of content in this game. Use it or dont. This is clearly a signature.
WaringAndWhoring Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.30 08:32:00 - [49] I have to lol at this thread, and the pvp/low sec people saying how it will make the game more challenging, really? hahaha any noob knows PVE fit is epic fail at PVP all you campers just want easy prey. I use to live in low sec and thats what you prey for, some noob to come through with rails guns or heavy beam weapons so you can just gank em and make some isk, I got bord of that and I never made much to make up for the roaming gangs that would sometimes gank me. Oh and Missions, meh..... When we did level 5's to make isk we left our low sec camp ground and went to another with a level 5 agent that we had an agreement with the pirates there to run mission so that takes out the risk of being ganked for the most part. It's the same with placeing pos'es in low sec. you better be friends with the pirates there or you can kiss it goodbye in no time flat. In the end I found exploration most fun. I pull in about a 100 million a day just roaming high sec and dead low sec areas. and when I'm in the mood to pvp I just take a trip into low sec or a wormhole. So low sec people, saying that more mission people in low sec and forcing them to pvp in a pve fit is laughable. They're is no challenge you gank them and they have no chance. That is not what I call a competitive challenging environment. I have my own ideas that would make low sec more fun but no point in talking about it, won't change a thing.
Noran Ferah Red Sky Morning	Posted - 2010.04.30 14:27:00 - [50] I have been running level 5's, but I have to say that low sec level 4's are where it is at, and I am no longer running Level 5 missions. It just takes too LONG to do them by myself. The LP payouts in lowsec level 4's are great, current technology makes pirates probing you problematic (for them), and the added risk is FUN. Plus, I have yet to see any ninja salvagers... I wont be missioning in high-sec any more, unless there is something I have to have from a certain high sec only LP store (If such a thing exists) that I am just too cheap to pay for...

Omira Tan	Posted - 2010.04.30 15:22:00 - [51] Originally by: Noran Ferah ... current technology makes pirates probing you problematic (for them), Can you please clarify?
genette devo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.04.30 18:00:00 - [52] if you arent enjoying missions anymore stop doing them, plenty of other ways to make isk and have fun.
RentableMuffin	Posted - 2010.05.01 01:34:00 - [53] Originally by: WaringAndWhoring I have to lol at this thread, and the pvp/low sec people saying how it will make the game more challenging, really? hahaha any noob knows PVE fit is epic fail at PVP all you campers just want easy prey. I use to live in low sec and thats what you prey for, some noob to come through with rails guns or heavy beam weapons so you can just gank em and make some isk, I got bord of that and I never made much to make up for the roaming gangs that would sometimes gank me. Oh and Missions, meh..... When we did level 5's to make isk we left our low sec camp ground and went to another with a level 5 agent that we had an agreement with the pirates there to run mission so that takes out the risk of being ganked for the most part. It's the same with placeing pos'es in low sec. you better be friends with the pirates there or you can kiss it goodbye in no time flat. In the end I found exploration most fun. I pull in about a 100 million a day just roaming high sec and dead low sec areas. and when I'm in the mood to pvp I just take a trip into low sec or a wormhole. So low sec people, saying that more mission people in low sec and forcing them to pvp in a pve fit is laughable. They're is no challenge you gank them and they have no chance. That is not what I call a competitive challenging environment. I have my own ideas that would make low sec more fun but no point in talking about it, won't change a thing. imo the best pve fits are pvp fits without the point/web, and add in another tracking comp or target painter... see DHB's nightmare fit, pretty much the exact same as my pve fit. the biggest things that handicaps pve fits are that people use specific hardeners and go solo.
Noran Ferah Red Sky Morning	Posted - 2010.05.01 09:26:00 - [54] Originally by: Omira Tan Originally by: Noran Ferah ... current technology makes pirates probing you problematic (for them), Can you please clarify? I think that the developers had as one of their aims in the construction of the T3 cruisers the objective to bring more people to lowsec/nullsec. It has certainly worked for me. Properly set up, especially with the right racial/militia LP implants a T3 can be made to run any level 4 mission in this game (and run it well) and be immune to probes. Any mission vs npc's that don't use target painters at least. I can run a L4 NPC Extravaganza or Blockade and not even have to activate my tank except perhaps for 5% of the mission. Gone also is the pain of having to 'scan, scan, scan' every 2 seconds for probes and death on the wing. It is a good thing, as it will bring more people to low sec space.
Arazel Chainfire Dissolution Of Eternity	Posted - 2010.05.02 02:36:00 - [55] There are a couple of easy things to do that would fix PvE. Option 1: Randomization Step 1 - randomize NPC's in pocket Set a minimum, there will be at least this many of these NPC's, this many of those NPC's, etc. Set a maximum, there can't be more than this many of these NPC's, etc. Step 2 - randomize NPC locations in a pocket The pocket is quite large, either have them spawn in random positions within a certain range of a location, or have them spawn in groups within a certain range of a location As shown with Left 4 Dead, and Left 4 Dead 2, having randomly spawning NPC's that don't always appear in the same spot helps make the game infinately more replayable. Provided that the mission is significantly enough randomized, you could get for example, damsel in distress, defended the first time by a large horde of frigs and cruiser, but few BS's, the second time by the current set of lots of close range BS's, and a third time by a mix of ranged BS's and cruisers. In each of these cases, an optimal setup could be found, but you don't know when going in what will actually show up for you. Option 2: PvP style Current PvE calls out to all pirates screaming "GANK ME". Why? PvE and PvP demand two vastly different things - a PvP fit generally fares quite poorly in PvE, but PvE fits are horribly outclassed in PvP. This could be changed by changing PvE to be closer to PvP. Ex. Agent gives you a mission - Go kill Zor. He is located in this system, here is the receiver to a homing beacon placed on his ship. The player then warps in on Zor, who is sitting in a raven fit with torps, drones, and a big passive shield buffer, and is accompanied by a couple of frigs/cruisers. When the player shows up, the NPC's target the player and begin attacking, with frigs tackling, cruisers helping tackle/DPS/ewar, and Zor pounding out the DPS. If the player breaks Zor's shields, or kills his escorts, Zor attempts to warp out, after which the player will have to use the homing beacon to find him again, and he may have gotten more friends. This would encourage the player to mount a scrambler to keep Zor pointed, and if the DPS of the group was high enough, the player may be better suited with a buffer fit himself. The NPC's could use the new sleeper AI to decide who to beat up as well. This would also have the benefit of putting the PvE player in a PvP fit, meaning that if PvPers stumbled upon him he wouldn't be horribly suited to try to take them on. Of these two options, option 1 would have the least effect on afk players, while still increasing the re-playability for people who actually want to pay attention. However, I would much prefer option 2 if they could implement it (hey, its also a boost to lowsec...). Lastly, to those "Leet PvPers" who insist that PvE should be boring to encourage PvP, and that we really shouldn't have to do PvE in the first place, let me say this. I am currently a student - when I get done working on homework, and want a little bit of chill time, but don't have much time to do so, I can hop on eve, and easily strike up between half an hour and an hour's worth of PvE. Being able to sit there and blow stuff up for a while helps me relax. However, if I try to go PvP, one of three things happens. First option, I wander around lowsec for a while, and don't find anyone willing to play (even though I'm solo). Second option, I get blobbed by "Leet PvPers", at 5+ to 1 odds, and get left ganked and highly unsatisfied. Third option, I manage to find someone willing to play, but then they discover that I might actually win, bring their falcon alt in, and gtfo. None of these three options leaves me relaxed, or like that hour I just spent was useful. So thank you very much, but I'll stick to PvE - at least in the end, I feel even mildly accomplished... -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.02 16:49:00 - [56] amazing how the l4 mission thread gets derailed to pvp. This is clearly a signature.
Jita Dodixie	Posted - 2010.05.02 18:03:00 - [57] Originally by: Nessa Aldeen After playing this game on several toons since 04, and consistently playing on all types of play styles, missioning is probably the most boring. CCP these are the some of the things you need to fix: a) The Cosmos missions needs a big revamp b) Missioning isn't much of a challenge, there's no thrill to it once you've fitted the right kit and agress the proper pockets. Basically, sit there and pound the npcs to death. c) The Epic Arc is too short. d) AFK missioning is possible, it shouldn't happen but it does. e) NO VARIETY to missions since 05. Pretty sick of EA, GE or any other so-called challenging missions. So as a mission runner, I would like to see: a) a more dynamic mission type that really put high level mission ships at risk b) make the missioner travel WHILE in mission, meaning objectives are like escalation you have now c) make courier runs interesting (you get ambushed or something) d) make L4 missioning interactive, where you interact with hostiles or something along those lines instead of just text in local e) mission NPCs AI are dumb, can you pls make them smarter? Like the ones in wormholes? f) Allow L5 (a Level 4.5?) in hi-sec with lower rewards and tougher NPCs, I can barely see anyone in low-sec doing them anyway so your point of populating low-sec with mission runners is moot. You only see pvpers running them and they are farming LP like minks in heat. g) Epic arcs aren't epic. It should be done with a small gang but you can basically do it solo with ease. Make it hard and make the rewards worthwhile and have tons of these missions that actually affect the EVE universe in some way. h) Please make more variety of missions, it it just way too repetitive Anyway, seems to me hi-sec EVE missioning is way too easy these days unlike in 04-05 and I would really like to see a revamp of missions to make it much more interesting and challenging to the mission runner. Try running missions in a Scorpion or any other tier 1 BS with t1 fit, without evesurvival like most of new players do. Then post it again.
Umega Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.05.02 18:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Cipher Jones amazing how the l4 mission thread gets derailed to pvp. Because it should. Really.. people whining about an AI? Come on. Really it is a lame excuse to avoid a human opponent that is much more capable of blowing up your ship. That's what it really boils down to. This threads sounds like people crying for more of a challange.. without actually risking their precious ships being blown up. It is what it is, and that's what it is. Cause if people really want a challange that risks their ship, simply go fight 1-10 humans instead of 1-10 NPCs. Doesn't matter the changes made to missions.. people will adapt to the new design, and it'll become easy again. It Is That Simple. And to the person citing random spawns.. yeah it makes for variety, but hardly challanging. Really.. anyone can just simply warp in, back out and fit properly and go back, or send an alt scout in first. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Frater Sen	Posted - 2010.05.02 18:49:00 - [59] Originally by: Nede*** solution : remove all lvl 3 and lvl 4 agents from highsec, leave them all in lowsec result : chalanging, interesting missions , you get to interact with hstiles ( granted , not only npc hostiles ) , you get access to really tough enemyes that may drop good loot , even t2 ....missions wont be repetitive....problem solved Moving all lv4 missions to low sec... yeah, i like victims in pve ships as well, short: Defending in a pve ship against the usual bunch of griefers in pvp ships doesnt make a lv4 mission challenging, only... expensive .
William Baring Caldari Barings Trade And Finance	Posted - 2010.05.02 20:17:00 - [60] I dont know why people keep going ona bout this. Missions are always gonna be dull and boring cuase its against npcs, ccp cant come up will millions of variations to keep you happy cuase you wont go and pvp. MISSIONS ARE TO MAKE MONEY!!! they are boring and a grind thats it, you cant expect something different every time. So stop whining about missions being to dull, and go pvp or something else.



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