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Gorion Wassenar
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Posted - 2005.12.02 21:11:00 -
[121]
At the time of the Caldari Prime blockade and all the deaths that followed, the Federation didn't exist as a Democratic Republic. It was a facist, parinoid regime. During the war, the Gallante overthrew that to from what you have now.
If you were living in a represive reigme and wanted out what do you think would happen. They'd kill you for leaving. We wanted out of the "federation" and you didn't want us to. You branded us "rebels" and much worse because you were afraid that all the other races that you had subgigated would get the same idea and leave as well leaving you no way to continue your decadent lifestyle by exploiting the resources of the worlds controlled by the other members of the "federation", much as it is today.
Both of our governments are built on corpses. Yours are the ones who longed to keep power and their bueracratic strangelhold on everthing they encountered. Our corpses are heroes that died to prevent us from being wiped out and giving us the thing we wanted so badly, Freedom. And now its time to morn those heroes whether you like it or not.
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Fast and free, follow me.
Time to make the sacrifice,
we rise or fall. |
Exioce
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Posted - 2005.12.02 21:55:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Gorion Wassenar
At the time of the Caldari Prime blockade and all the deaths that followed, the Federation didn't exist as a Democratic Republic. It was a facist, parinoid regime. During the war, the Gallante overthrew that to from what you have now.
If you were living in a represive reigme and wanted out what do you think would happen. They'd kill you for leaving. We wanted out of the "federation" and you didn't want us to. You branded us "rebels" and much worse because you were afraid that all the other races that you had subgigated would get the same idea and leave as well leaving you no way to continue your decadent lifestyle by exploiting the resources of the worlds controlled by the other members of the "federation", much as it is today.
Both of our governments are built on corpses. Yours are the ones who longed to keep power and their bueracratic strangelhold on everthing they encountered. Our corpses are heroes that died to prevent us from being wiped out and giving us the thing we wanted so badly, Freedom. And now its time to morn those heroes whether you like it or not.
i do not blame you, Mr Wassenar, for believing as you do. no doubt you have been informed from birth by corporate 'historians' that the Federation was in its early days a fascistic despotic regime and only recently has it become a liberal democratic state. i direct you then to this independent account that shows the right-wing government of which you speak only came to power after the murder of half a million of our people at Nouvelle Rouvenor. prior to that genocide the Senate was deliberating on how to resolve the situation peacefully. Caldari terrorism changed that in an instant. as such, the right-wing government's rise was an understandable expression of rage, but we soon returned to our liberal democratic principles and there we remain today.
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Halunoto Vankaalen
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Posted - 2005.12.02 23:10:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Exioce
i would hardly call corporate brainwashing "intellectual enrichment" and, moreover, if taking a stand against cruelty to children is intolerant and disrespectful of your ways, then i happily accept the title of bigot.
you claim your corporate creches spend twice as much on your children as we do on our own. this is true only on a technicality. it is only because much of the cost of upbringing in our society is naturally taken up by the parents. that, in conjunction with government spending, sees our young ones delivered more resources than your own.
in any case, i expect much of the spending from your corporate creches comes in the form of medical bills, given your culture considers being violently bullied and mauled by other pen-children as an acceptable substitute for toys and co-operative play.
You know, it's times like these that make me thankful for the U.D.I organization. And that we have a stronger Navy and economy than the Federals while still maintaining comfertable living standards. Federation space is still stagnating under the weight of a decomposing Navy and bickering politicians who argue over an election that seemingly will never end.
If our progress and successes are anything to go by Federal, I think we're doing a helluva lot better than you lot
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Enlist today!
Channel: CAINCOM |
Albrecht Wassenar
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Posted - 2005.12.02 23:18:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Exioce
Originally by: Gorion Wassenar
At the time of the Caldari Prime blockade and all the deaths that followed, the Federation didn't exist as a Democratic Republic. It was a facist, parinoid regime. During the war, the Gallante overthrew that to from what you have now.
If you were living in a represive reigme and wanted out what do you think would happen. They'd kill you for leaving. We wanted out of the "federation" and you didn't want us to. You branded us "rebels" and much worse because you were afraid that all the other races that you had subgigated would get the same idea and leave as well leaving you no way to continue your decadent lifestyle by exploiting the resources of the worlds controlled by the other members of the "federation", much as it is today.
Both of our governments are built on corpses. Yours are the ones who longed to keep power and their bueracratic strangelhold on everthing they encountered. Our corpses are heroes that died to prevent us from being wiped out and giving us the thing we wanted so badly, Freedom. And now its time to morn those heroes whether you like it or not.
i do not blame you, Mr Wassenar, for believing as you do. no doubt you have been informed from birth by corporate 'historians' that the Federation was in its early days a fascistic despotic regime and only recently has it become a liberal democratic state. i direct you then to this independent account that shows the right-wing government of which you speak only came to power after the murder of half a million of our people at Nouvelle Rouvenor. prior to that genocide the Senate was deliberating on how to resolve the situation peacefully. Caldari terrorism changed that in an instant. as such, the right-wing government's rise was an understandable expression of rage, but we soon returned to our liberal democratic principles and there we remain today.
The events at Nouvelle Rouvenor are tragic, but considering the circumstance, it was only a matter of time before the general populus acted out their rage at the blockade which your government errected around our homeworld. This however not an excuse of their actions, as the death of innocents is never justified, however the blame lays with the Gallente government. If your leaders had had any sense at all, they would have known that errecting a blockade would incite violence against their citizens still on the planet. If they had wanted peace, they should not have pushed the Caldari people into a corner with no other alternatives left than to fight. I am still to this day, stunned that the Gallente government would act in such a short-sighted manner not to mention their failure to act quickly and decisively. Their hesitation doomed the people of Nouvelle Rouvenor. Millions of lives could have been saved.
But enough of this. I am sure that we could both argue about the finer points of the history of the war between our two peoples until we are both blue in the face.
I am going to be at Caldari Prime to remember those who fought for our freedom and remember those who died, both Caldari and Gallente as I dont have a problem with the Gallente people, just your government.
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Mather Maelstrom
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Posted - 2005.12.03 00:35:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Mather Maelstrom on 03/12/2005 00:37:44
Of course the Gallente government should have acted different; they should have planned to wipe out the filthy Caldari's as soon as word came out of their treason. Is that what you like to hear?
LetFs face it under the wing of the Federation; everyone was prospering at the same rate. The Caldari went behind the back of the Federation. They went working on their own military, colonization and territorial agenda. If it would not have been found out I bet sooner or later you would have murdered us all when asleep. ItFs your militaristic nature that would have caused it. Trough your blood streams to urge to kill.
You were already on the loose acting anything but rational. The blockade was nothing more then an action of preventing a full scale war and instead your genes spoke for the people you are as you all went on a rampage.
If one of the two was acting irrational, then it would be the Caldari State that is responsible for the whole debacle. Just so we do not forget, you caused separatist movements amongst Intaki splitting up the peoples hearts. You betrayed the Gallente, Intaki and Mannar people and between the last two we remember the losses your actions have caused us too. What did you do for the Intaki choosing your side; you took away their homes once they served your cause.
As noticed by our Minmatar friends a while back:
"We realize they're in a crisis, but that does not give them the right to step on international law any way they see fit," stated Republic Parliament Head Malaetu Shakor this morning. "The Caldari State has to realize it represents only one entity in the pan-galactic playground, and you can only step on others so many times before others start pushing back."
Seems to me you are not learning from the past. Once again I suggest leaving criminal Caldari in Caldari territory where they belong. I also suggest leaving weaponry behind, because who respects the death really when coming dressed for war? At last I would like to advice you to take medicine to damp your emotional feelings. We all know what happens whith Caldari that get to emotional, turns them into animals.
I hope this event turns to be one that remembers the innocent lives lost during the entire war period on both sides. Let it be a peacefull day.
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2005.12.03 00:35:00 -
[126]
I would point out that the Nouvelle Rouvenor incident was not the action of the State, or even the portion of the federation at the time made of of the Caldari. It was the act of a few terrorists. The extremist government installed by the Gallente people through thier democratic process was a result of this. Proof, if any was needed, of the flaws of democracy, dependant as it is on the intellegence and judgement of the populous.
As to Tovil-Toba, he is a hero. He fought on alone, and abandoned any hope of returning alive to his family, much less the home being destroyed at his back while he dodged and repeatedly defeated a vastly superior force. And in the end he made that final sacrifice so others might live. I would invite anyone who is not a Gallente nationalist to comment on the right or wrong of that, but seeing as countless cities and millions of people were killed by the Gallente government in a far more cold hearted matter, I'm afraid anyone who supports that government has lost any right to opine on the morality of destroying a city full of people.
And finally, I was there last year, the Gallente police didn't ask anyone to leave, they opened fire on two pilots innocently attending a peaceful memorial. Even after her ship was destroyed Jera asked that the police be left unharmed, infortunately some of the less experienced pilots present were a little loose with the trigger. A tragedy for both sides.
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Silver Night
Director -Production and Science
Drink Starsi!
Join 'The Summit' in game RP channel. |
Silver Night
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Posted - 2005.12.03 00:41:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Mather Maelstrom
You were already on the loose acting anything but rational. The blockade was nothing more then an action of preventing a full scale war and instead your genes spoke for the people you are as you all went on a rampage.
I think you and I have different definitions of "Rampage" Mr. Maelstrom. I would call it an attempt to avoid being the victims of Genocide myself. But perhaps as we are just animals we don't deserve to live? Are Intaki who make themselves lap dogs of the Federation so much more superior? Broad racial generalizations help noone, especially those who use them. They simply prove stupidity, ignorance and inexperience. Would you say all Intaki are artists with no conception of things past whatever they are trying to create? All Amarr slaver zealots? All Gallente freedom loving booster freaks perhaps? From what you've said I think perhaps you would, and is that an impression you want to give?
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Silver Night
Director -Production and Science
Drink Starsi!
Join 'The Summit' in game RP channel. |
Albrecht Wassenar
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Posted - 2005.12.03 07:16:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Albrecht Wassenar on 03/12/2005 07:17:19
The colonies were established well before your Federation even exsisted and were kept hidden from all outsiders so as to be a refuge for the Caldari people when in dire need and served well as such. Hostile actions were initiated by your government, as I would classify the blockade of our homeworld as an act of war. And if we are going to talk about learning from the past, its that we do not respond well to strong-arm tactics. Treat us with respect and maybe you will get some in return. My advice is to allow us to assemble in peace and let go on our merry way.
See ya there!
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.03 07:53:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Mather Maelstrom
LetFs face it under the wing of the Federation; everyone was prospering at the same rate. The Caldari went behind the back of the Federation.
Yes that's right, everyone was growing at an equal rate, and prosperity was had by all on the same lev... hey what're those strings attached to you? Oh That's right, you're just a puppet dancing to the tunes of what you were taught growing up. Naturally, your teachers raised you on the truth, and only the truth, while we Caldari were fed lies and propaganda. I'm sure any ideas of you actually being what you've been taught to hate, has never entered your mind. How I pity people like you.
I must say, I liked my 'pen'. A somewhat remote community, peaceful, and quite fun to live in, except for when... forget it, you wouldn't care to hear about it except that Caldari citizens died. We may have some who are born and raised in different ways, but I recall my last visit to a Gallente system, which even included being attacked by some of your citizens, that the base I stopped at not only sold low-grade equipment at high prices, but had an extremely high amount of poor people scavanging there. I felt bad for them, and even worse when they didn't accept a handout from a 'criminal' like me because I'm Caldari. I have business in a system near that station over the next few days. I may stop over there and see if that poor soul is still around.
Originally by: Exioce
in closing though i pose the question - if the Federation is in such 'decay' why does Caldari Prime still belong to us?
Because of the same reason you can fly in our systems, we allow it at this time, and we are not the warmongering, power-hungry fools that you Gallente have shown yourselves to be. We know your government made a grave mistake, and someday it'll come to its senses and return what is ours, peacefully... ofcourse your government can't even keep their trigger fingers steady when coming to a peaceful protest, so we know they'll never admit they've been wrong.
That 'indepentant coverage' of the War's breakout covers you Gallente pretty well. Our government knew your goal would be to take Caldari prime by any means, even with the opportunity of vengance by bombing your homeworld in response to the attack on ours, was forgone, because murder wasn't and isn't our goal, the same cannot be said of you people. You may label one of our greatest heroes a murderer, but he's a hero to you Gallente whether you like it or not, as his last action caused the backlash of bringing about your... less bloodthirsty government. Ofcourse that is left out of your school lessons by accident, I'm sure.
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Quote:
1 Billion isk currently sells on ebay for about $225
90 day GTC $38.95 Currently selling for 300mill
Therefore 1Bill isk costs you $129.50. |
Kuwabatake Sanjuro
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Posted - 2005.12.03 14:48:00 -
[130]
Bonaventure Augustus writes: Quote:
And so I am scornful of the Intaki Separatists, who seem to think that they can leverage this time of mourning to gain the support of the Calderi for their political ends. Their interest seems heartless, calculated. I do not mean to disrupt this thread, but I ask the Calderi to be cautious of their newfound friends, I fear they mean to draw you back into war with the Gallente.
I am sorry you feel that way. It is rather close-minded of you to turn us away and label us as separatists, but I will forgive you and attribute your comment to the pain and greif you must feel at a time like this. Many Intaki fought along side the Caldari in that bloody conflict. This is not a political rally, nor is it a time for conflict between the State and the Federation. I urge the people of both Empires to mourn those who were lost during the war.
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.12.04 05:32:00 -
[131]
in memory of Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba and all the other brave souls who gave thier lives so that us Caldari can be free CSIG will be in attendance.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.12.04 10:57:00 -
[132]
GODS DAMN IT!
I leave this thread alone for a few days and THIS is what happens?
Learn some respect! This is a place to discuss a ceremonial gathering to honor the fallen. Your petty bickering shames the memories of all who were lost, Caldari and Gallente alike.
There is a time and a place for disagreement, and for fighting. This is not it.
--------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk |
Serin Reik
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Posted - 2005.12.04 15:49:00 -
[133]
I put my full support behind this initiative. You can expect me and many of my Intaki and Caldari pilots to attend.
The best way to prevent a similar atrocity in the future is to show solemn disgust for what has already come to pass.
CEO and Founder
Reik Laboratories |
Yuki Li
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Posted - 2005.12.04 20:24:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Yuki Li on 04/12/2005 20:24:19
Coreli you're walking on thin ice bringing your claptrap crashing down onto this subject.
I'd suggest you back off.
If it's possible, i'll be in attendance again. Hopefully this time i won't be pushed into opening fire on the Gallente Navy.
http://www.killboard.net
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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2005.12.04 20:40:00 -
[135]
I concur with Mr. Nuvolari in this respect. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for turning such a somber issue into yet another excuse to spew your bile.
I'll be there, gods willing, as should all other proud caldari.
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2005.12.04 22:41:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Silver Night on 04/12/2005 22:42:34
I would like to apologize for anything inappropriate to this thread I may have said. I would encourage anyone who wishes to have further debate to create a different thread for it. This is about a peaceful memorial gathering, not anyones opinions or differences.
I would even go so far as to, in Jera's continued absence(since usually this has to be aked by the original poster), request that the thread be moderated with an eye toward this.
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Silver Night
Director -Production and Science
Drink Starsi!
Join 'The Summit' in game RP channel. |
Gorion Wassenar
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Posted - 2005.12.04 22:48:00 -
[137]
Indeed. More than just Caldari died on Caldari Prime during this conflict.
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Fast and free, follow me.
Time to make the sacrifice,
we rise or fall. |
Val Erian
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Posted - 2005.12.05 14:38:00 -
[138]
I found this to be an interesting statement.
Says C.A.I.N.: "You know, it's times like these that make me thankful for the U.D.I organization."
So you can trigger another war? Like you did the first one?
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.12.05 15:43:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 05/12/2005 15:48:28
Originally by: Val Erian
I found this to be an interesting statement.
*stares coldly*
Is this what Gallente understand as respect, even among those that are not friends to each other?
Others have asked, I'll ask it myself: please leave your hostilities out of this thread; funerals and mourning ceremonies are not the place to conduct debates and discussions.
There is more than enough room in the GalNet to discuss the reasons of anything you find "interesting" about this thread, or any other subject for that matter. Feel free to start one, I give you my word that it will not go unanswered.
Now, please, show the respect this matter deserves and leave this thread alone.
Barriers - an EVE novel |
Halunoto Vankaalen
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Posted - 2005.12.05 18:22:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Halunoto Vankaalen on 05/12/2005 18:23:01
Originally by: Val Erian
I found this to be an interesting statement.
Says C.A.I.N.: "You know, it's times like these that make me thankful for the U.D.I organization."
So you can trigger another war? Like you did the first one?
Says me, Halunoto Vankaalen. NOT CAIN
Never, in any of my previous posts did I say I spoke for CAIN or it's policies. I apologise for continuing this debacle another step, I just wanted to make sure there would be no confusion.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.05 19:53:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Val Erian
I found this to be an interesting statement.
Says C.A.I.N.: "You know, it's times like these that make me thankful for the U.D.I organization."
So you can trigger another war? Like you did the first one?
Does he speak as a representative of CAIN? No, he does not, and the fact that a Coreli is preaching the way you are is laughable. Go back to attacking innocent Caldari and Gallente citizens, then acting shocked when their emergency distress call is answered by someone.
I'll be at the mourning ceremony when the times comes. I suggest if you show up, you act with better manners than what I've seen most Coreli show.
------------------------------------
Quote:
1 Billion isk currently sells on ebay for about $225
90 day GTC $38.95 Currently selling for 300mill
Therefore 1Bill isk costs you $129.50. |
Val Erian
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Posted - 2005.12.06 00:32:00 -
[142]
Oh My, you boys in your spiffy paramilitary scout uniforms seem upset. Did I hurt your feelings?
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.12.06 02:42:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 06/12/2005 02:43:19
Originally by: Val Erian
I do have respect for memorials. And I will not post on this thread again.
I thank you for your first paragraph, and expect you to be true to your word.
Quote:
But, Oh My! Open supporters of terrorist groups UDI
My previous offer still stands; if you wish to discuss the contents of your second paragraph in another thread, be it terrorism, separatims, or Caldari uniforms, please start one with the relevant subject and it will not go unnoticed.
Barriers - an EVE novel |
Karhig Duruckhai
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Posted - 2005.12.06 23:00:00 -
[144]
I shall endevour to attend this memorial service as I have attended all previous ones. It is, as always, our duty to remember those who have gone before us and fallen to secure what we now hold dear.
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Jakk Graiseach
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Posted - 2005.12.07 08:30:00 -
[145]
A Memory of Caldari Prime
I will be there.
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** cAKe ** |
Dolor Servorum
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Posted - 2005.12.09 15:14:00 -
[146]
I am afraid it will be impossible for me to be there. If I can make it in any way I will but it's highly unlikely. In my mind I will be with Caldari prime and with those paying it respect on memorial day.
Strength to the State.
Strength to the State. |
Kiruren
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Posted - 2006.01.01 15:23:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Kiruren on 01/01/2006 15:24:01
Fellow Patriots,
A reminder that the Caldari Prime Mourning Ceromony will be held on the 2nd January 2006, at 21:00 Evetime, in the Luminaire system.
See you there.
Neocom Ch: TKI-Net |
Krezeb
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Posted - 2006.01.01 21:33:00 -
[148]
I'll be there.
Long live the Caldari.
Krezeb
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Halunoto Vankaalen
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Posted - 2006.01.01 21:55:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Yuki Li
Edited by: Yuki Li on 04/12/2005 20:24:19
Coreli you're walking on thin ice bringing your claptrap crashing down onto this subject.
I'd suggest you back off.
If it's possible, i'll be in attendance again. Hopefully this time i won't be pushed into opening fire on the Gallente Navy.
Hopefully you won't feel inclined to open fire on CAIN officers or commit piracy.
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Brastagi
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Posted - 2006.01.01 23:13:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Brastagi on 01/01/2006 23:14:05
Due to internal problem I'm having, I cannot join you my brethren.
I only wish someone could carry an urn for me to Caldari Prime and spread the content into it's atmosphere. The urn contained the ash of a Gallente-Caldari war veteran.
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Watch me gravitate Ha ha ha ha ha....
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