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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.10 17:54:00 -
[31]
Edited by: darius mclever on 10/04/2010 18:01:31
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Wouldn't it make more sense to limit the amount of bombs that can go off in proximity of each other by tweaking the resistance/signature of the bombs?
Remove the current easy mode PvP that dropping a crap-ton at a time represents while benefiting the groups that take the time to drill and train together (staggered release, multiple vectors etc.)
there is a much easier solution for the bomb efficiency ... dont hug each other. if you have like 10-20k between all your ships ... the bombs become almost useless.
does this nerf RR BS gangs? sure it does. but they were kind of invincible before.
now you need to spread out and bring logistics to rep your ships.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2010.04.10 17:58:00 -
[32]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Wouldn't it make more sense to limit the amount of bombs that can go off in proximity of each other by tweaking the resistance/signature of the bombs?
Remove the current easy mode PvP that dropping a crap-ton at a time represents while benefiting the groups that take the time to drill and train together (staggered release, multiple vectors etc.)
there is a much easier solution for the bomb efficiency ... dont hug each other. if you have like 10-20k between all your ships ... the bombs become almost useless.
does this nerf RR base gangs? sure it does. but they were kind of invincible before.
now you need to spread out and bring logistics to rep your ships.
Darius FTW.
People are always too damn close... that makes Bombs VERY powerful.
The problem with the OP is tactics... not just emo-raging over foolishness.
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CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
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Emo TJ
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.10 20:17:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Emo TJ on 10/04/2010 20:17:52
Originally by: darius mclever
Edited by: darius mclever on 10/04/2010 18:01:31
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Wouldn't it make more sense to limit the amount of bombs that can go off in proximity of each other by tweaking the resistance/signature of the bombs?
Remove the current easy mode PvP that dropping a crap-ton at a time represents while benefiting the groups that take the time to drill and train together (staggered release, multiple vectors etc.)
there is a much easier solution for the bomb efficiency ... dont hug each other. if you have like 10-20k between all your ships ... the bombs become almost useless.
does this nerf RR BS gangs? sure it does. but they were kind of invincible before.
now you need to spread out and bring logistics to rep your ships.
Ah Ha!
So, the truth finally is revealed. Yet again, more CCP intervention to help out BoB.
The great Northern Coalition invented RR BS tactics and, are by far are the most skilled in deploying such ships. The Southern Coalition, along with its slav...um, pets, (don't worry, we will free you soon) are jealous of this. So bombers get 'buffed' to counter these RR fleets.
Just like a certain disbanded :high five to GoonSwarm: that abused multiple AoE titan doomsdays that even CCP finally admitted in their own words, "Would ruin the fun for hundreds of people with the push of a button with virtually no risk." Bomber runs are the same thing, except on a far cheaper and less risky scale.
The Southern Coalition is not as rich as the Northern Coaltion, so abusing these ships is a desperate tactic to try and outlast the north.
Sorry SC, but we are thru letting you abuse a ship because of a grudge.
The bombers need a nerf, and a nerf soon.
They should allow us to give a second thumbs up, because Yaay's suggested change is right on.
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Leuthispar
Resonance.
RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.04.10 20:41:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Leuthispar on 10/04/2010 20:44:58
Originally by: Emo TJ
The great Northern Coalition invented RR BS tactics and, are by far are the most skilled in deploying such ships.
LOL you dont know jack of you are talking about, either you're a noob to the game or average NC muppet that believes everything their leadership tells them.
Small alliances were the first people to use RR fleets years ago. NC finally learned how to use them only after 2-3 years of gettin slaughtered by TRI / WN / Insurgency fleets that had 1/3 or 1/4 of their numbers. You can look this up in any kbs and even forum battle reports and see the huge success they had while NC was still flying snipe/rr snipe BS.
And FYI you people are not even close to being good with them, you suck at it horribly, you just spam the fleet with like 30-50 logistics and still people in fail fit BS and bunch of worthless support and even the logis with fail fits, that is why you still loose fights(again see kbs and forum battlereports)
If any of those 3 alliances above could field a fleet with 30-50 logistics + 200 BS they would lol stomp NC anyday. The strenght of the NC is the insane numbers you guys have, a combined 30 or so alliances and can constantly keep refitting and coming back into the fight. Keep ridiculing yourself sayin the NC is skilled in anything pvp. If they were they wouldnt need to meganap with 30 alliances.
CAOD
A forum for threads with words like: deterministic alts, drama continuations, lagsploits generators, nodecrash extrapolation , killboard stat shader, forum ban distribution, etc. |
Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2010.04.10 20:44:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Yaay on 10/04/2010 20:48:08
Originally by: Drake Draconis
For starters you people are assuming that the bombs live long enough to be dropped in mass numbers.
I've been told repeatedly......
Your argument was lost at that point. Either try it yourself, or don't comment. Telling me what someone else told you is just pointless. I use and FC bombers frequently. When done right, it's almost comedy watching enemy fleets run like Benny Hill on grid.
In the perfect scenario, 8-10 bombs are the minimum that will hit. If you do it properly, with dedicated pilots and ships, bombs hit for 8k dmg per and 8 will hit. If you use the wrong ship types, 10 will likely hit for about 6k dmg per. 8x8 = 64000 dmg or 6x10 60,000 dmg. Average sniper fit BS depending on fit has somewhere between 60 and 90k EHP partly dependent on gang bonuses.
Some sniper fits with max damnation go up to about 120k EHP, but not many alliances use those.
By comparison, Good RR fits start around 180k EHP and go up.
OK, that's Ideal.
It takes 5 seconds for one bomb to move out of damage range of another bomb. If you watch a fleet warped group of bombers land on grid, load and launch, typically they have a spread of about exactly 5 seconds on bombs. If you have free warp rather than fleet warp, the spread is easily more like 7 seconds or greater. Or you can do squad warps which again, only need about 1-2 seconds delay to work because of delays on land due to lag and player error.
What does that mean. It means that launching 20-30 bombs at a time isn't that hard and can be done over the course of about 7 seconds rather than the 30 + seconds most inexperienced bomber pilots think it takes.
Also mixed bombs. Most mixed bomb problems are a result of one problem bomber. In order for that bomb to be a problem, that bomb has to be the first launched and first to explode. If any of the correct bombs hits first, the incorrect bomb is destroyed. It's almost never an issue with experienced bomber fleets more than a day or two into practice.
Even if somehow all 20 bombers launched at the exact same time, no matter what, 8-10 bombs will hit.
On a sniper fleet, Just 8 bombs means either your entire fleet is low armor, or into structure. How many fleets are going to stay on grid when this happens. When you're talking fleets of even 50 BS, it takes a very long time of exposure just to repair everyone, assuming you have proper logistics. 5 logistics will take about 10 minutes to repair 50 bs at best speed.
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None of that would be a problem if fleet warps, and probing weren't so problematic at the moment. It only takes 10 seconds to probe an enemy fleet once it lands on grid. Less time if you have good spies. A bs takes about 12-15 seconds to align. That means you are almost guaranteed to get bombed instantaneously.
On top of that, even if your fleet warps at varied ranges, 2/3 are going to warp in at a range between 0 and 50km. So now you have a large chunk of your fleet either at 20, 30, 50, or 10,20,30 or 0, 10 , 20 which means that any of those 3 groups can get bombed easily. About the only effective way to fleet warp in and prevent heavy losses is to have a ceptor on grid MWD'ing. But well, ceptors get chased, and shot at, so that's not an easy task mid fight while still staying in your fleets range.
There are other **** poor game mechanics like gate jump ques and jump bridge fueling problems that also give bombers advantages.
I didn't call for a major nerf, in fact, hardly any mechanics of bombers would change with the exception of more delay and a tad more vulnerability while bombing. Very minimal.
Beyond that, the Birdies say they're getting nerfed. We'll see; but rumors are rumors and some rumor mills tend to be more accurate than others.
Originally by: Leuthispar
NC does not use RR in it's classical sense. In fact, they're far from the classical RR fleets. We don't hardly even use the same tactics as most traditional RR fleets.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.18 00:05:00 -
[36]
CCP bombers are completly overpowered and are just ruining conventional fights in EVE. seriously 10 ships at 35 million each can insta pop a 200 man BS fleet? What kind of nonsense is that?
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Fear the french touch.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.18 00:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Fire Hawk
CCP bombers are completly overpowered and are just ruining conventional fights in EVE. seriously 10 ships at 35 million each can insta pop a 200 man BS fleet? What kind of nonsense is that?
they are something to teach you that you should not hug too close to each other.
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Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.04.18 07:46:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Fire Hawk
CCP bombers are completly overpowered and are just ruining conventional fights in EVE. seriously 10 ships at 35 million each can insta pop a 200 man BS fleet? What kind of nonsense is that?
It means that if you fly your 200-man fleet with bad fittings and poor tactics, then ships that are specifically intended to counter blobs will do a pretty good job of doing just that.
Why not ask your allies how to deal with bombers? We do RR BS gangs a lot, and we know how to deal with them.
Signed,
Pheusia |
Emo TJ
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.18 17:48:00 -
[39]
Moving this back to the top for great justice.
It is not fair that a 20 man gang can kill at 200 gang. 
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.18 19:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Take the above into account.. it's not as "easy" as you yahoos make it out to be.
Facts and real (ie. virtual) world metrics beg to differ.
The number of pilots involved in this new fad of mass-bombers is evidence that it is indeed "that easy".
If it actually required lots of practise and coordination there would be very few crews able to consistently pull it off properly, not everyone and their alts.
It should be a highly specialised enterprise to warrant its immense power, since it apparently isn't then something is broken.
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Anna Lifera
Gallente
Imperial Legion of Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.19 16:51:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Emo TJ
Moving this back to the top for great justice.
It is not fair that a 20 man gang can kill at 200 gang.
lmfao a 200-man blob crying unfair? 
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It is not fair that a 20 man gang can kill at 200 gang. - Emo TJ |
lilrez
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.04.22 08:20:00 -
[42]
Not supported.
It might not be fun to you but it's fun for the bombers. Also it's not easy. Bombing runs take a bit of coordination and finesse to pull off without taking losses.  |
Manji Lee
Gallente
Galactic Express
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.04.22 08:35:00 -
[43]
Mate, have you ever done any bombing runs before? Or have you at least flown a bomber? There not that easy to fly or coordinate a bomb strike. In my experience as piloting s.b.'s and being on the side that's being bomb. They pretty much feel right at the moment.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2010.04.22 08:44:00 -
[44]
Not supported. Stealth bombers are a fairly lengthy skill train to fly properly, and the coordination and practice necessary to be successful should be rewarded.
Next to smartbombs, they are currently the ONLY area-effect damage element in Eve. Bombers represent how tactical squadron deployments can be an effective counter to a larger fleet. In an Eve that is currently struggling with a blob/lag problem, they're vital.
Also, stealth bombers look wicked awesome. Go Pandemic Legion!
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Galgacus
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:14:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Yaay
Edited by: Yaay on 09/04/2010 04:51:18
Bombers are really starting to get out of control. Everyone knows how great a tactic they are, but also what a huge pain in the ass they've become. My only real complaint is that they are removing the ability to fight on grid for extended periods of time, which can be highly frustrating for both sides that just want to have the good fight. So with that in mind, here's 3 things I think can change that won't really hurt bombers effect, but will free up fights.
1) Extend the bomb launch time from ~ 2 minutes with good skills to closer to 7-10 minutes.
2) Increase the flight time of bombs from 3.5 seconds back to the original 5 seconds. The reduction in time has made it way to easy to use 20+ bombers at a time simply because lag creates enough separation where the bombs don't destroy each other. 5 seconds reduces that problem and makes launching more than 8 bombs more reasonable as was originally intended.
3) Decrease bomber agility by 10% base. That means their 5.8 second warp time with max skills will go to about 6.5 seconds. If you add 1 Inertial stab 2, it should take warp time down from an original 4.5 seconds to about 4.95 seconds. 2 inertial stabs originally 3.9 seconds up to 4.3 seconds.
The agility change is only because of the change in the cloaking ability of bombers where it's impossible to see them coming.
I personally am not a fan of completely nerfing bombers, and even this is probably a bit much. But it's getting to the point where every fight that bombers are around, the 10-20 bombers are creating far more havoc than the other 200 in fleets. To me, that just isn't kosher fun for everyone.
I would be fine with bombers as they stand if instead CCP created more warp options, especially with fleet warps, or changed probing back to it's originally 30 second time. As it stands now, by the time everyone has loaded grid, they're already probed and bombers likely already in warp before there's even a chance to spread out. And warping at spread ranges still offers bomber food and shouldn't be necessary. Why is it i can have a fleet spread in a 60km bubble on 1 grid, and fleet warp pulls them all to 5km sphere when they land. Fleet warp should retain separation. Until that can happen, bombers need to be slightly more limited.
As for the north, both sides have benefited heavily from bombers. And dodging them has it's elements of fun. But **** sake when you cant even load grid before getting bombed, something's wrong. And neither side should have to deal with that.
Ok, when would you like these implemented? And does anyone else have a say in this? What else do you want changed?
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