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Redshirt I
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Posted - 2010.03.29 19:18:00 -
[1]
I am trying to laydown the long term planning of my friends and I to have a 4-5 man PVP gang. In most situations we plan to outnumber our target(s) so this setup is for that situation.
I don't need loadouts, Battleclinic will help with that, I just need an overall idea if the following ships would complement eachother well enough?
1.Malestrom (Turret/Missle) 2.Golem (Missle/Cruise) 3.Rook (Tackler) 4.Curse (Tackler) 5.Undecided
The maelstrom is the only one set in concrete, he has decided that is what he wants to fly. The others are more open minded and will work with whatever we decide is a better combination.
This won't be for gate camping as I just don't like doing that. More along the lines of scanning down targets and jumping on them as quickly as possible.
Thanks in advance.
Red
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.03.29 19:26:00 -
[2]
i wouldn't use golem... light ecm drones will jam you and iit has a hard time damagin anything smaller than a BS
I would go with
rook and curse for sure, ( work well together)
they are both rather mobile as well, so for your other two ships i'd prob go with HML drakes, or another BC
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Redshirt I
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Posted - 2010.03.29 19:37:00 -
[3]
So, I would probably have the same problems with a CNR as with a Golem? I have always liked Ravens, not sure why.
Does swapping out the Golem for a Nightmare or a Megathron make better sense or am I just heading down the wrong path? I figured 2 tacklers and 2 heavy hitters would work out well enough that my 5th friend can bring along a shuttle for all it mattered :)
Thanks for the reply
Red
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Last Wolf
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2010.03.29 19:40:00 -
[4]
2x Machriels 2x Scimitars 1x dramiel.
Oh no you don't! Incoming witty reply, ETA: 300 seconds! |
Leopold Caine
Amarr Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2010.03.29 19:47:00 -
[5]
Were you planning on going lowsec, nullsec? In either way Golems are pretty inappropriate. I'd go with the 'needed' Maelstrom, a HICtor, 2 HACs and a Combat Recon. Insert a Logistic if needed. ____________________________________________________________ .stillwater
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DXYOC
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Posted - 2010.03.29 19:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Redshirt I So, I would probably have the same problems with a CNR as with a Golem? I have always liked Ravens, not sure why.
Red
Maradeurs(Golem) have very very low sensor strenght witch makes em very easy to jam and render useless.
Originally by: Redshirt I Does swapping out the Golem for a Nightmare or a Megathron make better sense or am I just heading down the wrong path?
Makes sense , Mega is a nice ship and the nightmare can be godlike if fitted well but costs alot.
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Redshirt I
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Posted - 2010.03.29 20:04:00 -
[7]
Yeah the Nightmare would be a nightmare to replace if our experiment backfires.
As to the question of where we would be, anywhere that concord wont try to hose us.
I ask in ignorance: what would the differences in the setup be between operating in low sec versus no sec?
Will check out the other suggestions.
thanks again.
Red
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CoLe Blackblood
Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.03.29 20:32:00 -
[8]
Lowsec = gateguns you have to be ready to tank if you encounter any targets on a gate/station.
0.0 = no gateguns
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ExplicitViolence
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Posted - 2010.03.29 20:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: ExplicitViolence on 29/03/2010 20:37:48
Originally by: Redshirt I
This won't be for gate camping as I just don't like doing that. More along the lines of scanning down targets and jumping on them as quickly as possible.
Red
You might try a ship or two with a decent lock time, tackle, and some tank. Your BS don't have all 3. If your recons are setup for scanning (i dunno i'm asking) I suspect you're lacking one of the 3 as well.
It would suck to scan ppl down, warp in on them, and sit helplessly as they warp away.
Also, 80% of ppl dock when neuts enter local unless they are looking to fight tbh.
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Exploding Tukey
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Posted - 2010.03.29 20:41:00 -
[10]
The person with scanning skills can jump in and inty and scan down people, then fly in and tackle them while the others just jump on his location (10km away) and pew pew!
as said before, Marauders are bad for pvp, stick to Drake or even a remote rep BS that can target everyone and rep while doing a little dps himself.
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Skiff Chandler
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Posted - 2010.03.29 20:51:00 -
[11]
3x canes 1x scimitard (see what i did there?) 1x dram/daredevil
or 5-6 canes, works well, my budies and i do cane roams all the time, tackle is a bit harder but the dps is just great |
Sienna Palmer
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Posted - 2010.03.29 21:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Redshirt I
1.Malestrom (Turret/Missle) 2.Golem (Missle/Cruise) 3.Rook (Tackler) 4.Curse (Tackler) 5.Undecided
Maelstrom (DPS) Maelstrom (DPS) Arazu (Tackle) Falcon (Probes) Basilisk (8))
With that setup you'll look lighter than you are, will be able to scout/probe/tackle, and will be able to run and/or deaggro and jump if you get in trouble
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Nora Rage
Heroes. Fall From Grace.
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Posted - 2010.03.30 03:00:00 -
[13]
RR BS fleet is out with 5 people i guess...shame.
Mixing tanks is generally a bad idea so if your chap wants to go Mael then its a good idea to have the rest of your gang run shield and have a logi on hand.
Mael/Raven is some nasty dps, and Scimi backup to help the Raven survive the initial primary call. Now you could go 2 Mael 2 Raven with a Scimi or you could swap 1 or 2 out for a Falcon and a Curse (in that order). Could even use a Rapier to web and TP for the Raven(s). To give you an idea the 2 Mael 2 Raven can kick out close to 5k DPS with good skills. As long as you dont get yourself blobbed theres not much that could stand upto that with equal numbers.
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Redshirt I
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Posted - 2010.03.30 03:14:00 -
[14]
After a discussion tonight it looks more like this, still debatable though.
Maelstrom Machariel Curse Rook Logistic/command ship TBD
Why would I want to use the falcon over the Rook? for cloking/Cyno/probing?
Would a logistic or command ship work out better in this group?
We are a learning group so will most likely try different setups, which is also partly the reason I don't want to use more then one type of each ship.
Thanks for all the input!
Red
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Gunner77
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Posted - 2010.03.30 06:16:00 -
[15]
Maelstrom Maelstrom Rook Curse Basilisk
Maelstroms do epic dps and kill ****. Curse neutralizes active tankers and laser/hybrid weapon users to help kill stuff faster and to lower dps. Rook jams stuff to lower the dps and get tacklers off Itself/Curse/Basilisk. Basilisk lays down shields for the Rook and Curse and energy transfers for the Maelstroms to counter neutralizers. If there was a 6th slot, use an un-probable Tengu for epic shield gang-link bonuses, making the Basilisk's job easier and making the Maelstroms crazy hard to kill.
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Last Wolf
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2010.03.30 06:38:00 -
[16]
if your only gonna use one logi, I'd use a scimitar, basilisk is really only good if there are 2 or 3 or 4 of them. Oh no you don't! Incoming witty reply, ETA: 300 seconds! |
Shaitis
Caldari Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.30 07:39:00 -
[17]
5 curses FTW :)
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kessah
M. Corp Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.30 09:56:00 -
[18]
2x Dramiels 1/2x Rooks/Falcon 1/2x Long Range 600 DPS Tengu.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2010.03.30 10:30:00 -
[19]
Maelstrom (DPS) Sleipnir (DPS +/ gang) or HIC (low sec I'd prolly go for a non shielder though) Rook/Falcon (ECM, depends on if you want/need to probe) Curse (wut cap) Scimitar (wut basi)
Decent gang. All the above is prolly crap Drone Guide
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Baneken
Gallente Aseveljet Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.30 10:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Redshirt I
I ask in ignorance: what would the differences in the setup be between operating in low sec versus no sec?
Biggest difference between low and null sec depends of the alliance in question, if they won't kill you on sight you can be assured there will be a man hunt once you kill someone at the belt.
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SuperNova221
Ragnarok Rising THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.03.30 11:16:00 -
[21]
Falcon Falcon Falcon Bomber Scimitar
For ultimate ***gotry.
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Redshirt I
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Posted - 2010.03.30 11:36:00 -
[22]
I have been playing with the Hookbill as a fast rocket platform but I wouldn't think it would last long in this environment, what is it about the Dramiel that people suggest it for this gang setup? I think I am going to give it a go in PVE like the hookbill but not sure about this gang.
Thanks Red
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.03.30 11:44:00 -
[23]
Edited by: VanNostrum on 30/03/2010 11:44:42 Arazu, Rapier, 3 x Stealth Bombers
edit: fixed heh
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.03.30 11:50:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 30/03/2010 11:54:15
Originally by: Redshirt I I ask in ignorance: what would the differences in the setup be between operating in low sec versus no sec?
Saying you're going to use such an expensive ship as a Golem and then this basically tells me that you need to be thinking cheaper than the Golem. It sounds like you're getting started with PvP so my advice is based upon that. Sorry if I'm dumbing things down.
It sounds like you are wanting to PvP in Low-Sec. A 5-man gang is on the small side in low-sec. This is not necessarily a problem, just that you will need to be creative and/or mobile - reason being that there are a lot of larger gangs in Low-Sec just waiting for a group of 5 to hang around a system a little too long.
Taking one battleship in a gang of only 5 is could be a little risky as it will slow you down and be a pain to get through gates if you're not practised at scouting. Whilst you are learning the ropes, I would stick to cheap but effective battlecruisers. If you stick to one type (shield or armor) then you could consider a logistics ship if you up-scale your gang.
Remember that DPS is very important - you want to get in an kill stuff before help arrives. This will happen very quickly in low-sec so you don't want to plan some long, drawn out battle - just get in there, kill and get out. If you take too many support ships instead of DPS you may find yourself in a long fight, which ends up with more and more people arrivng to beast you.
I would go...
1. Battlecruiser 2. Battlecruiser 3. Battlecruiser 4. Scout/Tackle - interceptor or a faction frig 5. ECM (your rook is a good bet)
Keep your BCs and rook in a safe, aligned somewhere for safety, and then scout around with your tackle. Remember to 'roam' and don't just sit in one system.
When you're happy with your gang then maybe look at bringing in a logistics ship or maybe the curse. A support Domi with neuts / reps and a buffer tank could also work well as an addition to the above gang. With a Domi, the extra drone damage and available drone bay would be a bonus and you could run two heavy neuts and two large reppers easily - just scout well to get it through the gates.
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.30 12:13:00 -
[25]
Maelstrom Maelstrom Rook Curse Vulture
Maelstrom's have great DPS, are fast and agile for battleships (I put an Inertia Stab in the low all the time and warp faster than most BC's) and have amazing tanks especially with some LG Crystals and Blue Pill boosters.
Rook can jam and tackle
Curse will keep heavy tackle away such as Cynabal's and Vagabonds.
Vulture can give your shield tanking Maelstroms some ridiculous bonus's and will usually NOT be primary because they have a hell of a tank themselves.
Alternatively you could drop the Battleships and go for complete guerrilla warfare:
Hurricane Hurricane Rook Rook Arazu
Fit a cloak on every single ship, hit targets of opportunity and then safe up and cloak while their reinforcements whine, ***** and moan in local about how unfair it is to hide.
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Redshirt I
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Posted - 2010.03.30 12:56:00 -
[26]
There will be alot of setup and research prior to engaging any target. I can play almost the entire day for the entire week if so inclined, and am patient enough to spend all that time sitting in one system taking notes. My friends however only have a couple hours on the weekends. So for me the week would be spent analyzing lowsec/nullsec systems in a cloaked probe ship getting an idea of who occupies that space, what, if any, mining ops are going on and setting up multiple safe deep spots. We all believe in Crawl, Walk, Run and we are at the tail end of "crawl". I need to balance between the less strategy intensive multi BS setup and the precision of a SB gang.
The "walk" phase will probably be a bunch of trial and error :)
What other BS is comparable to the Maelstrom DPS? If the Machariel isn't then maybe something else, but along with not wanting to have multiples of the same ships, the main reason my friend is flying the maelstrom is cause we watched Clear Skies a few weeks ago and I don't like to buy something just cause I seen a commercial for it.
Thanks for all the input everyone, Its helping me alot!
Red
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2010.03.30 13:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Redshirt I [..]
What other BS is comparable to the Maelstrom DPS? If the Machariel isn't then maybe something else, but along with not wanting to have multiples of the same ships, the main reason my friend is flying the maelstrom is cause we watched Clear Skies a few weeks ago and I don't like to buy something just cause I seen a commercial for it.
Thanks for all the input everyone, Its helping me alot!
Red
Well a lot of BS are comparable, DPS wise. Maelstrom pvp fit prolly has something like 1000+ dps (a pretty cheap t2 fit, t1 rig does about 1050dps), but also has a very sweet tank (I get 700 dps tanked, no overheat, stable with cap booster, that's without drugs). You can get 1000dps out of a lot of BS, torp raven, blastermega, blaster domi, pulse geddon, typhoon all can do the dps without much of a sweat, but getting that tank in there is a pain. And the tank can be boosted pretty nicely with blue pills (and even crystals if you feel posh). And of those the only one which could be nicely tanked with a scimitar is probably the raven and torps aren't that great vs smaller ships (not without 2-3 target painters, gutting your tank).
The machariel will outperform the maelstrom dps wise, is nice and fast, and basically is only worse at price and tanking. I guess. But they are a lot more expensive ..
ps the reason people are taking dramiels is because the dramiel is like an uber interceptor now, faster, more durable, 3 drones, harder to hit, etc.
All the above is prolly crap Drone Guide
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