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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:35:00 -
[1]
Ok so I see in the forums all the time peeps saying that Ratting in 00 Sec isnt more valuble than Lvl 4`s....Then I hear others saying that Lvl 4`s are just safe and have no risk which I tend to agree with.
I dont want a whole change 4`s thread, I simply want all your opinions of what made you the most ISk in your times doing both.
It seems to me that Ratting made me what seemed to be alot more ISk because Id get Mega Beamsx2 in every Spawn rather than 2 times a mission, On the other hand I lost alot more ships thanks to the boys at U`K
But in the end If I had a total locked down Alli that was in no threat ever of losing space I think 00 are way more Lucrative...But I have been wrong 1 time before "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." -Gen George Patton, My Hero
If you run, You`ll only die tired |
Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:40:00 -
[2]
L4s, mainly due to consistency, universal availability and unlimited number. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
KWyz
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:44:00 -
[3]
You cannot count Providence as "locked space" under the rule of CVA. Part of the excitement of being there are the roaming gangs. And I don't think there is such a thing as safe 0.0 , no matter what.
Consider this: almost risk-free isk, with the only bummer being random repetitive giving of same missions by different agents. You'll often hear yourself going "Not this mission again!" or random swearing versus the occasional ninja salvager.
On the other hand, let me introduce you to an exciting new way of making isk: Exploration.
Where you make money once in seven days to last you for the whole week, and keep you coming. IF you're lucky that is. Solo non-tech3 pilots need not apply.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:58:00 -
[4]
I hear that if you're docked and spin your ship long enough, you will start to earn millions of ISK per second. It takes a while to get started, but it is far more profitable in the long run.
True story.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:01:00 -
[5]
missions over ratting unless you are in the best of the best systems.
no idea about the anoms that came with dominion.
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Meredith Midnight
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:44:00 -
[6]
Upgraded cosmic anomolies definitely give you more isk/hr than lvl4's, and they can be blitzed easily.
You also have chances at getting faction spawns with their nice bounties (and faction loot), you dont need to waste time trying to convert your lp to isk and if you have a decent logistics team, they'll sell your loot/salvage for you for a small slice of the pie.
Another benefit is that the cosmic anomolies give you a bit more align time when that neut/red comes into system.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:28:00 -
[7]
Doing nothing: worthless. Doing anything: worth something. Doing something you like: priceless.
In a 4 to 6 hour evening I make 250 million on average (often more, rarely less). Yet I get that through two activities that others loathe and I enjoy: mining and hauling (best to date was 525m profit for hauling 2 jumps). I don't make as much doing missions (low combat skills, decent social skills), and I find missions less enjoyable. I've tried ratting, but would rather hit myself in the head with a bat repeatedly than rat.
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: KWyz You cannot count Providence as "locked space" under the rule of CVA. Part of the excitement of being there are the roaming gangs. And I don't think there is such a thing as safe 0.0 , no matter what.
Consider this: almost risk-free isk, with the only bummer being random repetitive giving of same missions by different agents. You'll often hear yourself going "Not this mission again!" or random swearing versus the occasional ninja salvager.
On the other hand, let me introduce you to an exciting new way of making isk: Exploration.
Where you make money once in seven days to last you for the whole week, and keep you coming. IF you're lucky that is. Solo non-tech3 pilots need not apply.
Lol I`d never consider CVA space locked...Lol
I meant Deep in Atlas, Mihi, IT ETC ETC....I used to be a guest in a major alli`s space and It was safer than Motsu since Ninja/Griefers would be killed outright.
The reason it was so safe is there were always guys just spoiling for fights on your side who did nothing but wait for reds or Nuets to kill them...10 jumps into Atlas or any true Alli`s space is to me consider`d locked not CVA as much as CVA doesnt bother me at all being nice to Nuets has major security concers, like spies etc. "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." -Gen George Patton, My Hero
If you run, You`ll only die tired |
5nipe
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: KWyz Solo non-tech3 pilots need not apply.
What does this sentence mean?
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: 5nipe
Originally by: KWyz Solo non-tech3 pilots need not apply.
What does this sentence mean?
It means KWyz plexes in the South, not the North (where the plexboat of choice is almost always the ishtar). Plexing is fun and very lucrative, but you need a very very good tank if you're solo and good scanning skills (unless you want to be constantly switching ships).
It does offer the thrill of wandering nullsec and the *jackpot* feeling of making nothing for four hours, than making a billion off one plex.
TBH, highest level anoms chained in succession makes more isk overall (especially when you factor in the small chance of escalation to a 10/10).
But for repeat customers, plexes are by far the most enjoyable PVE in eve.
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Missm Uppet
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Posted - 2010.03.06 00:35:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Missm Uppet on 06/03/2010 00:38:48 As the person above stated, plex's are probably my favorite part of PVE. It can be frustrating when you go through 2-3 dry spells but the jackpot feeling is certainly exciting.
Aside from plexing, 0.0 space does not currently offer the ISK/hr that a good high-sec lvl 4 mission pilot can make (with the exception of fully upgraded (lvl 5 anom's - and this I can't speak to personally as my alliance has only two systems to lvl 3 currently).
If you rat in the highest grade 0.0 systems under nearly perfect conditions, you might make 35 million or so per hour (included faction spawns/loot in this number). But then you need to factor in the occasional ship loss (frequency depending on the region of space, your neighbors, and the ship type being flown).
Typical ratting setups are t2 hacs, BCs, and t1 battleships. When you consider that high-sec missions allow you to fly in relative security, you can easily afford to fly in a billion+ ISK faction BS or marauder, which can significantly increase your efficiency.
Add to this the LP, loot/salvage you get from flying for the right agents/systems, and the constant flow of missions, and you get an easy 60-70 million ISK/hour (personal experience flying Golem/CNR in minmatar/caldari space).
TL;DR version, CCP has yet to come up with a viable means of making ISK in 0.0 that is on the level of high-sec missions, plain and simple. Actually living in 0.0 and making half the isk/hour that lvl 4's offer, means settling for a BC/HAC and always watching your back
On a side note, here's why you can't even hope to fly a marauder or any sort of high-value ship in even the "safest" 0.0 systems:
Let's say you decide to call a system safe because it's a dead end system with only one ingress/egress gate. Let's even say that you've probed and found no hostile threat from WH's *currently* in the system. Let's a go a bit further and say that your alliance is really with it and has the gate camped and bubbled 23/7. Here's all it takes for any enemy to get in and smack you up:
Get in a cov-ops and safely make your way passed the bubble/camp (easy). Warp to a planet and start scanning/probing for ships. "Oh! Golem shows up on scan - sweet." Continue probing for 10 minutes or less till said Golem is pin-pointed. Warp to Golem cloaked, pop up covert-cyno. Have a friendly black-ops ship a couple jumps away (or more) jump 3-4 stealth bombers in on top of the Golem whilst it's busy with NPCs. Dead Golem - trophy for the KB.
So, with all the work you have to do for ISKies in 0.0 sov space, you can see why a lot of smart pilots are jump-cloning into empire and running missions for ISK and not living there full time (or, funding themselves with an alt). Actually living in 0.0 and making half the isk/hour that lvl 4's offer money means settling for a BC/HAC and always watching your back.
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Meredith Midnight
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Posted - 2010.03.06 01:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Missm Uppet Here's all it takes for any enemy to get in and smack you up:
Get in a cov-ops and safely make your way passed the bubble/camp (easy). Warp to a planet and start scanning/probing for ships. "Oh! Golem shows up on scan - sweet." Continue probing for 10 minutes or less till said Golem is pin-pointed. Warp to Golem cloaked, pop up covert-cyno. Have a friendly black-ops ship a couple jumps away (or more) jump 3-4 stealth bombers in on top of the Golem whilst it's busy with NPCs. Dead Golem - trophy for the KB.
So, with all the work you have to do for ISKies in 0.0 sov space, you can see why a lot of smart pilots are jump-cloning into empire and running missions for ISK and not living there full time (or, funding themselves with an alt). Actually living in 0.0 and making half the isk/hour that lvl 4's offer money means settling for a BC/HAC and always watching your back.
Once you see a non-blue in the almighty local of this safe system, that's when you login to your level 4 mission alt to get the second best pve income. And if you dont have local up in 0.0, well, that's just darwin at play.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.03.06 06:27:00 -
[13]
Ratting is very convenient. Nobody ever bothered me in my dead end Synidicate systems that everyone else thought were crap.
Missions make more but it's more effort. The most work I had to do ratting was hauling a badger full of missiles to my safespot once a week. 30m an hour was just fine for me.
edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
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Caleidascope
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Posted - 2010.03.06 06:34:00 -
[14]
Missions make more for simple reasons that you can repair and re-arm. There is no point being in null when you are out of ammo. What are you going to do? Ram the rats?
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.03.06 06:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Caleidascope Missions make more for simple reasons that you can repair and re-arm. There is no point being in null when you are out of ammo. What are you going to do? Ram the rats?
You bring a blueprint, and use any station to make your own ammo since the lab slots are never full. Of course you can't do that in sov space but you have no business being there if you don't control it in the first place (though with drones or lasers you can still get away with it).
edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.03.06 06:41:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 06/03/2010 06:41:33
Originally by: Caleidascope Ram the rats?
F*ck yeah, I BUMP 'EM TO DEATH!
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Caleidascope
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Posted - 2010.03.06 07:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Caleidascope Missions make more for simple reasons that you can repair and re-arm. There is no point being in null when you are out of ammo. What are you going to do? Ram the rats?
You bring a blueprint, and use any station to make your own ammo since the lab slots are never full. Of course you can't do that in sov space but you have no business being there if you don't control it in the first place (though with drones or lasers you can still get away with it).
Great idea.
Let me tell you what happened to me. I was on my way back to the Thukker station in null and run into a gate camp, my ratting Bellicose is scrap.
Bottom line. Solo ratting in null is fun, but to pay for my game time I run L4 missions.
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Missm Uppet
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Posted - 2010.03.06 08:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Meredith Midnight
Once you see a non-blue in the almighty local of this safe system, that's when you login to your level 4 mission alt to get the second best pve income. And if you dont have local up in 0.0, well, that's just darwin at play.
So CCP came out with this expansion a few months ago called Dominion. One of the primary intentions for this expansion was to drive up the value as well as the cost for holding individual systems. For this reason, local is often crowded, namely in upgraded systems (as intended by the developers) and so watching for neuts in local gets pretty damn tedious when there are 40+ toons in the system. I lost a HAC last week because I lapsed scrolling through local. 90 seconds is all it took.
But nice try.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.03.06 12:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 06/03/2010 12:11:47 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 06/03/2010 12:11:25
Originally by: Missm Uppet
Originally by: Meredith Midnight
Once you see a non-blue in the almighty local of this safe system, that's when you login to your level 4 mission alt to get the second best pve income. And if you dont have local up in 0.0, well, that's just darwin at play.
So CCP came out with this expansion a few months ago called Dominion. One of the primary intentions for this expansion was to drive up the value as well as the cost for holding individual systems. For this reason, local is often crowded, namely in upgraded systems (as intended by the developers) and so watching for neuts in local gets pretty damn tedious when there are 40+ toons in the system. I lost a HAC last week because I lapsed scrolling through local. 90 seconds is all it took.
But nice try.
Everyone should be forced to ferry their Golem in 0.0 just to enable its hardpoints. Many would quickly change their idea about how sure, safe, bother-less is being in 0.0.
Ah, of course they should also be forced to defend their alliance space on their own provided T2 fit BS, carrier or dread. You know, that little opportunity cost that comes when you get to such safe 0.0.
So, who of the hi sec dwellers who discount 0.0 are going in first?
*crickets*
Thought so. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Kva Plexcha
Gallente Doing You Right
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Posted - 2010.03.06 13:05:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Kva Plexcha on 06/03/2010 13:08:04 I'll let you in on a little secret. I fly a Proteus in hostile null sec thats worth probably 2 bill. I've been doing this for about the last 4 months. This Proteus has probably earned me 12 bill - ish. Haven't lost it yet. Null sec ninja plexing, FTW!
If you use your head, you can probably survive and make major iskies in pretty much anyones 0.0 space. Without being blue to anyone. Its not that hard. Lowsec is actually more dangerous than null, for the money you can make.
So if you want to come and gank me, please get in line. The threat and excitment of constant possible death while I play Eve is personally much more preferable to the boring tedium of virtually safe Hi-sec Mission Grinding.
Edi: BTW I dont have a PVP kill yet with any of my characters. Plexing, and ratting is pretty much how I play Eve, so yeah I'm a carebear truly living in null.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.03.06 14:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kva Plexcha Edited by: Kva Plexcha on 06/03/2010 13:08:04 I'll let you in on a little secret. I fly a Proteus in hostile null sec thats worth probably 2 bill. I've been doing this for about the last 4 months. This Proteus has probably earned me 12 bill - ish. Haven't lost it yet. Null sec ninja plexing, FTW!
If you use your head, you can probably survive and make major iskies in pretty much anyones 0.0 space. Without being blue to anyone. Its not that hard. Lowsec is actually more dangerous than null, for the money you can make.
So if you want to come and gank me, please get in line. The threat and excitment of constant possible death while I play Eve is personally much more preferable to the boring tedium of virtually safe Hi-sec Mission Grinding.
Edi: BTW I dont have a PVP kill yet with any of my characters. Plexing, and ratting is pretty much how I play Eve, so yeah I'm a carebear truly living in null.
Now, let's remove the "unscannable" tricks and see if you still bring your Proteus in hostile territory. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.03.06 14:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kva Plexcha Edited by: Kva Plexcha on 06/03/2010 13:08:04 I'll let you in on a little secret. I fly a Proteus in hostile null sec thats worth probably 2 bill. I've been doing this for about the last 4 months. This Proteus has probably earned me 12 bill - ish. Haven't lost it yet. Null sec ninja plexing, FTW!
If you use your head, you can probably survive and make major iskies in pretty much anyones 0.0 space. Without being blue to anyone. Its not that hard. Lowsec is actually more dangerous than null, for the money you can make.
So if you want to come and gank me, please get in line. The threat and excitment of constant possible death while I play Eve is personally much more preferable to the boring tedium of virtually safe Hi-sec Mission Grinding.
Edi: BTW I dont have a PVP kill yet with any of my characters. Plexing, and ratting is pretty much how I play Eve, so yeah I'm a carebear truly living in null.
Haha, all carebears that got kicked out of prov. take note. Bring your expensive ships to null and plex away. I soo need more kills and good loots.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.06 14:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Now, let's remove the "unscannable" tricks and see if you still bring your Proteus in hostile territory.
Tricks? Its game mechanics working as intended. Not that you cannot probe down plex that hes in.
Btw ratting in 0.0 will earn you more isk than l4s - and its liquid isk! Not loot or lps that you need industrial alt to turn into isk with good ratio. It have its disadvantages /biggest is getting there and transporting faction goodies to empire/, but once your in your ratting system, there is very low chance that you will die if you know what are you doing. And thats for ninja ratting.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.06 15:42:00 -
[24]
you have to look at the timeline of your character.
Ratting in .01 nets at least 10 mil an hour, but you can do that in a cruiser. Inertia stab II and WC stab II for the quick getaway.
Once you get level 4's the grind will be slow until you can get the DPS and tank.
In both missions and ratting you get the occasional killer spawn. In the mission "worlds collide" I've made 60 mil in 2 pokets, when ratting in lowsec I've got 20mil isk drops.
Once you have a badass level 4 mission runner that has enough tank for all lvl 4's and the rest in gank then I think you start making more ISK an hour.
-------------------------------------------------- We lost around 1.5b worth of tower, fuel and modules total. (Pause for amusement)
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Kva Plexcha
Gallente Doing You Right
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Posted - 2010.03.06 16:02:00 -
[25]
Sigh...
To clarify things:
My operation is self contained, well thought out and has been adjusted several times to be optimal.
I don't dock anywhere. I use hybrid ammo and never run out. I regularly repair my ships, replace my drones, ship my loot to empire and liquidate it. An unprobeable T3 is a gimped ship IMO, however your assumption is my advantage Its been a long time since I was in Providence, I operate in Venal. CO2, Razor, MM, have all killed me once while regularly killing each other. (not my T3) Jumpwise, I'm far from empire.
Don't know what else to add here, maybe a bookmark for my SS in a can for you? (NOT! :)
Anyone - read hi second carebear here - can do what I do in almost any Null area. You just have to use your head.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.06 16:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cipher Jones ...
Wcs? Go home with that... If you do dir scan you always have enough time to gtfo. In bs its even easier, because you are most of the time aligned = instawarp. As for 'badass l4 runner' - you can use such ship in 0.0 too - its much easier since you only need around 300 tank for ratting - and it will earn you more than any l4. Just imagine 12 belts full of high tier bses up to 1,8m bounty /btw that bses have MUCH more loot in wrecks than bses in missions/ - belt will respawn in around 15 mins.
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Dusica
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Posted - 2010.03.06 17:11:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Dusica on 06/03/2010 17:11:48 If you do missions lvl4 in 0.0 you will obviously make more money then in high sec lvl4. If you rat in 0.0 NPC region like venal , delve etc , in good system you will make more money then in high sec lvl4. If you plex in NPC regions you will make very good money and much much more then in high sec lvl4.
BTW last patch changed some missions so many NPC agents dont give missions in 0.0 in same system but make you go one or two jumps ... a bit of nerf , however it is still profitable more then high sec lvl4.
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Missm Uppet
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Posted - 2010.03.06 18:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dusica Edited by: Dusica on 06/03/2010 17:11:48 If you do missions lvl4 in 0.0 you will obviously make more money then in high sec lvl4. If you rat in 0.0 NPC region like venal , delve etc , in good system you will make more money then in high sec lvl4. If you plex in NPC regions you will make very good money and much much more then in high sec lvl4.
BTW last patch changed some missions so many NPC agents dont give missions in 0.0 in same system but make you go one or two jumps ... a bit of nerf , however it is still profitable more then high sec lvl4.
innocent readers beware:
Anyone who claims that ratting, 0.0 missions or anomilies can compare to high-sec mission running is either daft and unable to do missioning properly/effciently or is trolling you and trying to bring you out to 0.0 to shoot your ass.
Plain and simple as that.
I've had toons in 0.0 for well over two years (8 different regions with plenty of -1.0 true sec) and have never been able to reach the level of isk/hr that I achieve in my Golem/CNR in the comfort of high-sec.
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Dusica
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Posted - 2010.03.06 18:15:00 -
[29]
That is if you live solo in 0.0 ... if with corp or alliance you can be pretty safe in your home and do tons of lvl4s i had more money that way then in empire.
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King Rothgar
Violent By Design
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Posted - 2010.03.06 18:28:00 -
[30]
High sec lvl4's are not the most profitable thing you can do but is stupidly profitable for what it is. You can make more from soloing low sec lvl5's in a carrier or running faction warfare lvl4's. Ratting pays terribly compared to most other things you can do. The reason is all the warping around. Sure, triple 1.8M isk BS spawns are great, but getting 15x 500k isk BS's in one mission is better as they take about the same amount of time to kill once you take warping around and empty belts into account. And that's completely ignoring risk.
Exploration generally pays less as well. Exploration is interesting however, you never know what you'll find other than yourself outside of high sec. The bounties are typically small and loot is all over the place in value. You can run a site, make 10M isk off it and 20 minutes later find the exact same site in a different system and make 1 billion with an escalation in another system. But generally you'll find yourself with 10-20M per site.
Lvl5's are little more than beefed up lvl4's, they rapidly get boring and repetitive. But as said, they do pay better. You have to run an awful lot of lvl4's to match the value of 80k LP from a single lvl5. Some can be blitzed in only a few minutes, others can take up to an hour. Either way, good luck getting more than 30k LP/hr in high sec.
FW lvl4's pay about 20k LP per mission, however that LP is worth 3-4x normal navy corp LP. So that 20k LP = 60-80k LP from a normal corp. The missions are completely blitzable, typically taking less than 2 minutes to actually run. However they are incredibly dangerous to your ship thanks to their nature and the area they take place in. Speed is definitely your friend in those.
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