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Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.07.01 11:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright, as many others I got multiple buy orders set up across various regions.
Once they are fulfilled it usually takes a bit of flying around to pile it all up at a central spot to ship it out with a freighter.
When buying large amounts of ore this becomes quite tedious using transport ships (I use a maxed out Impel with around 27,3km3) considering their total cargo is rather limited when dealing with raw ore.
So my question is really... how agile are the JF's such as the Ark compared to the regular Freighters? Does it take the same amount of time to align and jump as a freighter does or is it feasible to use the Ark as a hauler for piling up ore from multiple locations?
Flying a freighter to do pickups between stations in 10 different systems takes forever. But considering the small cargohold in even Transport ships that takes a long time as well since you have to do multiple runs.
This game really needs a 300km3 non-jumpdrive midsize freighter for these types of "fly around and pick up items" operations, but that's another discussion.
I'm just wondering if the Ark is any faster than a Providence. |
CrazySpaceHobo
Haddock's Legitimate Trading
0
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Posted - 2012.07.01 12:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
/opens pyfa
Align time of Provi with all V's: 39.5s Align time of Ark with all V's: 23.7s |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
7
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Posted - 2012.07.01 22:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
I believe there is a lot of pple wanting an indie ship that fills the middle road between the T1's and the Freighters as far as cargo capacity goes. I do hope the Devs have something like it planned for the future. |
stoicfaux
1209
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Posted - 2012.07.02 00:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Or the ability to 'rent-a-tug' and have an NPC tugboat (that's stationed at stations and gates) triple web freighters or push freighters into alignment so they can get into warp a bit faster.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
21
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Posted - 2012.07.02 00:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
No. Game design should never reduce player reliance and interaction.
Plus, at that point, you're better off just hiring a courier anyway. They're stupidly cheap in highsec. |
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
300
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Posted - 2012.07.02 01:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
If only there was a ship that could hold ~140k when fitted for carrying capacity (plus a 50k ore bay and 400k SMA).
That would be neat. If I ever designed a ship like that, I'd call it the Orca. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
799
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Posted - 2012.07.02 02:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Agility doesn't matter as much when you AFK. Most of the travel time is approaching gates from 15 km to 2.5 km jump distance. The higher the velocity, the less time spent approaching gates.
Ark 84 m/s base. Providence 70 m/s base plus 5% per level (84 m/s at level 4), so unless you train Minmatar Freighter 5 they are very similar.
Now that ONLY leaves align time... which as CrazySpaceHobo already posted in the Ark's favour (it is a smaller ship).
If you are trying to move more efficiently, the the Providence wins, as agility differences mean only 15.8 additional seconds per system for a whole lot more cargo. |
stoicfaux
1209
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Posted - 2012.07.02 03:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Agility doesn't matter as much when you AFK. Most of the travel time is approaching gates from 15 km to 2.5 km jump distance. The higher the velocity, the less time spent approaching gates.
Ark 84 m/s base. Providence 70 m/s base plus 5% per level (84 m/s at level 4), so unless you train Minmatar Freighter 5 they are very similar.
Now that ONLY leaves align time... which as CrazySpaceHobo already posted in the Ark's favour (it is a smaller ship).
If you are trying to move more efficiently, the the Providence wins, as agility differences mean only 15.8 additional seconds per system for a whole lot more cargo. You're forgetting the Navigation skill's 5% bonus to velocity.
Ark has 105m/s. Providence has 105m/s at Freighter IV, and 109m/s at V (4.4 second speed advantage to get to the gate.)
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
800
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Posted - 2012.07.02 04:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:You're forgetting the Navigation skill's 5% bonus to velocity. No I didn't
Hence I specifically stated "base" for the speeds. Navigation skills don't matter in a comparison as they affect both ships equally, hence I only mentioned the racial freighter bonus which only applies to the T1 ship. |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.07.02 08:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
1. Get an alt, put it in corp and train it into something like a merlin 2. Fit, nanos, overdrives, mwd and 2 or 3 webs 3. Follow your freighter around insta warping it after each gate jump. 4. Profit. |
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Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.07.02 09:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's not only for the gate jumps.
I have no problems manually flying a Providence from my local area to the hubs. That's usually 10 or so jumps and I handle that manually.
What takes time is when you have a Buy order set for a 5 system range, then you need to fly to a system, then fly to 2-5 different stations within that system... then to next system and another 2-5 different stations... in order to pick up all the items. And with a Buy order with 5 system range (or even more at times) it becomes very slow and very inefficient to use the freighter for it.
And the option, using industrial/transport ships, also takes a long time considering you have very small cargoholds on those compared to the huge volume ore requires. The largest cargospace you can get on an industrial is 35-40.000m3 (correct me if I'm wrong).
Of course I know about the Orca. The Orca has a long training time though, especially if you are trained up with navigation skills and industrial ship/transporter/freighter, and not into the industrial and leadership skills required for the Orca. However, the Orca holds
With the Orca and skills you get: 2x expanded II = 60,961m3 2x Expanded II + 3x Cargo Rig I = 92,714m3 2x Expanded II + 3x Cargo Rig II = 100,951m3 Corp hanger = 40,000m3 Ship bay = 400,000m3 (which in the case of ore doesn't help too much)
I have an alt training for the Orca, though not as much for the hauling between systems as for the bonuses and moving ore in the belts. Seems the Orca is the only "cargo hauler" that can be used between a 40km3 transporter and a 900km3 freighter. The Ark doesn't seem worth it taking into account the added training, investment price and rather little difference in agility.
I was thinking about fitting an industrial ship for max cargo, fill it up and then put it into an Orca's ship bay and get extra cargospace from that, but the industrials are all over 200.000m3 size, so can only add one extra. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company space weaponry and trade
53
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Posted - 2012.07.02 11:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
You forgot the ore bay.
Also ships in the ship hangers won't let you hold items that are non-ammo last I checked. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
8
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Posted - 2012.07.02 15:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:You forgot the ore bay.
Also ships in the ship hangers won't let you hold items that are non-ammo last I checked.
Correct.
Orca is a nice ship for hauling in the gap between T1 and Freighters, but its training requirements are a bit heavy for people that do not do mining and only want a hauler, not to mention its a very expensive ship if you are only getting it for its hauling capability.
I would love to see a ship come out that has a similar cargo bay, but no other bonuses (other than maybe speed / cargo as the other indies do). An in-the-middle ship would fill a sizeable gap. |
Kate Stenton
Four Pillar Production Dragehund
5
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Posted - 2012.07.02 18:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jelizza Arlath wrote: What takes time is when you have a Buy order set for a 5 system range, then you need to fly to a system, then fly to 2-5 different stations within that system... then to next system and another 2-5 different stations... in order to pick up all the items. And with a Buy order with 5 system range (or even more at times) it becomes very slow and very inefficient to use the freighter for it.
What if you put a packaged indy in your freighter and fly the freighter to the system the buy order was placed? Then just use the smaller ship to run around and bring the other orders back to the freighter?
I don't know if it will actually save you time, but it's worth a thought. |
Alyssa SaintCroix
Leihkasse Stammheim
31
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Posted - 2012.07.03 06:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
If it was me, I'd be asking a more important question...
Do you want to be piloting a ship, at times worth 6-7 billion, around your hubs collecting and dropping off goods?
I think I'd take the slower times with the ship that costs a 1/5th to a 1/6th of the cost of a JF and not invite trouble into your bowl of morning wheaties. |
Boomhaur
88
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Posted - 2012.07.03 08:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alyssa SaintCroix wrote:If it was me, I'd be asking a more important question...
Do you want to be piloting a ship, at times worth 6-7 billion, around your hubs collecting and dropping off goods?
I think I'd take the slower times with the ship that costs a 1/5th to a 1/6th of the cost of a JF and not invite trouble into your bowl of morning wheaties.
That 6-7bil isk ship has stupidly high EHP (roughly 350k), in order to take one down you need a lot of people to do it. And to do it while making a profit from the gank you need to be carrying a lot to make it profitable. And the amount of gank camps I have seen that have the firepower to take one down in hi sec is very few. In fact I think it's around 2, and both were before the insurance nerf. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.07.04 13:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
6-7 billion?
The majority of my hauling that involves a freighter is movement of ore or stacks of battlecruisers/battleships.
Doubt people are gonna set up a gank-camp large enough to down a freighter for 900km3 worth of low-end ores.
Also, as for the battleships... considering a freighter can't scoop from space and battleships take 50.000m3 even when packaged, is it even possible to retrieve them from space after a ship has been blown up ? Even a maxed out Iteron V and transportships only take 40km3 or so.
Which means you'd need an well trained Orca and pilot just to scoop up 2 battleships?
I'm not really worried about being ganked while in the freighter.
I'm just getting really bored with the constant smaller scale hauling due to the very limited cargo capacity of the existing industrial/transport ships... or the large volume of the ores... guess it depends how you look at it. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
138
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Posted - 2012.07.04 15:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:If only there was a ship that could hold ~140k when fitted for carrying capacity (plus a 50k ore bay and 400k SMA).
That would be neat. If I ever designed a ship like that, I'd call it the Orca.
not to mention an ORCA fit with a MWD can align and warp in 10 seconds.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
138
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Posted - 2012.07.04 15:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jelizza Arlath wrote:6-7 billion?
The majority of my hauling that involves a freighter is movement of ore or stacks of battlecruisers/battleships.
Doubt people are gonna set up a gank-camp large enough to down a freighter for 900km3 worth of low-end ores.
Also, as for the battleships... considering a freighter can't scoop from space and battleships take 50.000m3 even when packaged, is it even possible to retrieve them from space after a ship has been blown up ? Even a maxed out Iteron V and transportships only take 40km3 or so.
Which means you'd need an well trained Orca and pilot just to scoop up 2 battleships?
I'm not really worried about being ganked while in the freighter.
I'm just getting really bored with the constant smaller scale hauling due to the very limited cargo capacity of the existing industrial/transport ships... or the large volume of the ores... guess it depends how you look at it. don't packaged ships unpack when dropped or jettisoned into space? Don't recall were I read that but it was a while back. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
9
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Posted - 2012.07.04 21:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Boomhaur wrote:Alyssa SaintCroix wrote:If it was me, I'd be asking a more important question...
Do you want to be piloting a ship, at times worth 6-7 billion, around your hubs collecting and dropping off goods?
I think I'd take the slower times with the ship that costs a 1/5th to a 1/6th of the cost of a JF and not invite trouble into your bowl of morning wheaties. That 6-7bil isk ship has stupidly high EHP (roughly 350k), in order to take one down you need a lot of people to do it. And to do it while making a profit from the gank you need to be carrying a lot to make it profitable. And the amount of gank camps I have seen that have the firepower to take one down in hi sec is very few. In fact I think it's around 2, and both were before the insurance nerf.
Keep Eve radio up in the background when running around in Freighters / JF's. They apparently have gotten freighter gank squads together and killed a couple recently 'just for fun'. It was a large scale suicide gank. |
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Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
25
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Posted - 2012.07.05 01:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jelizza Arlath wrote:....is it even possible to retrieve them from space after a ship has been blown up ? Even a maxed out Iteron V and transportships only take 40km3 or so.
Which means you'd need an well trained Orca and pilot just to scoop up 2 battleships?
Freighters can scoop from other freighter's wrecks. Only freighter wrecks, though.
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Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.07.05 06:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hm, didn't know that.
Seems nomatter how long you play this game you keep learning new stuff :) |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
68
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Posted - 2012.07.05 14:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:If only there was a ship that could hold ~140k when fitted for carrying capacity (plus a 50k ore bay and 400k SMA).
That would be neat. If I ever designed a ship like that, I'd call it the Orca.
Maybe if the Orca didn't take 3-4 times longer to train for than a freighter and didn't cost half the price of a freighter that can haul 4x more.
Why have T1 transports when you can get a Hulk and fit it with almost the same cargo room? Same difference. |
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