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Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.02.28 02:32:00 -
[1]
I was running a level 4 mission, the Assault (Guristas Pirates) and I had a rather tough time with it. I had to warp out at least 3 times because the enemies were just killing me so fast I Barely had time to shoot anything. I was flying a dominix like this:
Low: Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer 2x Kinetic Hardener IIs 2x Thermal Hardener IIs Power Diagnostic II Capacitor Power Relay II
Mid: 2x Omnidirectional tracking links 3x Cap Recharder IIs
High: 5x 350mm Prototype Railgun 1x Drone Augmentation link
Drones: 5x Federation Navy Gardes 5x Bouncer Is 5x Hobgoblin IIs
My armor tanking skills are near perfect, with Armor repair systems 5, and Hull upgrades 5. Is there some other way I should be tanking? Or should I just be more carefull not to be so ham-fisted with spawn triggers?
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Hobonator912
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.02.28 02:45:00 -
[2]
Passive shield tanks are pretty beast, you can tank ~1000dps minimum, way more if you take the right hardeners.
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sikassLL
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Posted - 2010.02.28 02:49:00 -
[3]
I always LOL when I see an armor fit with no DC II....
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Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.02.28 02:49:00 -
[4]
You can't passive tank a battleship anymore, right? After dominion, ships got their shield recharge rate nerfed. Can you show me an example (other than a rattlesnake)?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.28 02:52:00 -
[5]
assault is pretty easy if you aggro the groups right.
only thing annoying is the jamming cruisers, and well, the sentry drones should take care of them nicely
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.28 02:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Snyderm You can't passive tank a battleship anymore, right? After dominion, ships got their shield recharge rate nerfed. Can you show me an example (other than a rattlesnake)?
only faction navy battleships got their recharge rates changed.
although I'd take an active tank domi over passive any day.
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Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.02.28 02:58:00 -
[7]
Isn't it true that a DC II will always reduce the amount of damage you can tank, unless you are using an omnitank setup with at least 2 EANMs?
Because I wouldn't think that total effective HP means much unless your are PVPing.
Unless Im wrong. Its happened before. :)
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.02.28 02:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Snyderm Edited by: Snyderm on 28/02/2010 02:37:09 I was running a level 4 mission, the Assault (Guristas Pirates) and I had a rather tough time with it. I had to warp out at least 3 times because the enemies were just killing me so fast I Barely had time to shoot anything. I was flying a dominix like this:
Low: Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer 2x Kinetic Hardener IIs 2x Thermal Hardener IIs Power Diagnostic II Capacitor Power Relay II
Mid: 2x Omnidirectional tracking links 3x Cap Recharder IIs
High: 5x 350mm Prototype Railgun 1x Drone Augmentation link
Rigs: 1x Sentry Drone Damage Augmentor 1x Auxiliary nanobot 1x CCC
Drones: 5x Federation Navy Gardes 5x Bouncer Is 5x Hobgoblin IIs
My armor tanking skills are near perfect, with Armor repair systems 5, and Hull upgrades 5. Is there some other way I should be tanking? Or should I just be more carefull not to be so ham-fisted with spawn triggers?
Passive shield tanking is one option but it cosumes all your slots and you've actual no cap recharge. I did lvl4 missions in such a Dominix but switched back to armor tanking again. Reason is just to have slots free for "stuff".
I'd try to change your fit a bit: - remove cap modules from the lows -> fit more tank: hardeners and 1 additional LAR II - change one cap recharger into a cap booster loaded with 800s
I'm not sure if it'll fit with your rails. I do missions in a 2x LAR II Dominix. The second rep is for such peak situations you described. And the secon rep isn't cap stable. Main point is: you wont need cap stability. several minutes is enough. The cap booster gives security and is ofc not meant to permarun. Mostly I don't need to reload the cap booster.
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Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
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sikassLL
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Posted - 2010.02.28 03:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Snyderm Isn't it true that a DC II will always reduce the amount of damage you can tank, unless you are using an omnitank setup with at least 2 EANMs?
Because I wouldn't think that total effective HP means much unless your are PVPing.
Unless Im wrong. Its happened before. :)
Ugh....NO
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King Rothgar
Violent By Design
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Posted - 2010.02.28 03:08:00 -
[10]
Guristas are the nastiest npc's in game, personally, I just reject all missions against them save for lvl5's where I use a carrier. Anyways, you will need a dual repper setup. My advise is 2x LAR, DCII, 2x kinetic hardeners and 1x thermal hardener. I guess make all the mids cap rechargers though it's going to nerf your sentries kinda bad. -----------------------------------------------------
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Smithy001
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Posted - 2010.02.28 03:09:00 -
[11]
Most of the damage guristas do is kinetic
try 3x Kin, 1x EANM
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.02.28 03:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Snyderm Isn't it true that a DC II will always reduce the amount of damage you can tank, unless you are using an omnitank setup with at least 2 EANMs?
Because I wouldn't think that total effective HP means much unless your are PVPing.
Unless Im wrong. Its happened before. :)
If you buffer (tank) a DC is very usefull especially on Gallente ships - they have most hull HPs of all ships. DC increases hull resists mostly, armor resists quite ok and shield resists a bit. If you're using an active armor tank, resists are key. That's what makes your reps efficient. Hardeners and EANMs are always better when it comes to amor resists. Only the third EANM gives same armor resist bonus as the DC, due to stacking penalty. Then a DC is ofc better because it give hull und shield resists on top.
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Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
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Theac Osiris
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.02.28 04:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Denuo Secus
Originally by: Snyderm Isn't it true that a DC II will always reduce the amount of damage you can tank, unless you are using an omnitank setup with at least 2 EANMs?
Because I wouldn't think that total effective HP means much unless your are PVPing.
Unless Im wrong. Its happened before. :)
If you buffer (tank) a DC is very usefull especially on Gallente ships - they have most hull HPs of all ships. DC increases hull resists mostly, armor resists quite ok and shield resists a bit. If you're using an active armor tank, resists are key. That's what makes your reps efficient. Hardeners and EANMs are always better when it comes to amor resists. Only the third EANM gives same armor resist bonus as the DC, due to stacking penalty. Then a DC is ofc better because it give hull und shield resists on top.
Right conclusion, wrong rationale. The reason DCUs are preferred once you've stacked up loads of resist modules, is that the DCU ignores the stacking penalty. Since the DCU ignores the penalty, a DCU will give more resists than a 3'rd EANM without penalizing the first two EANMs.
______________________________________________ Missions. They're like mining, but with guns. |
Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.02.28 04:22:00 -
[14]
Which is still my point, if your not already using 2 EANMs, don't use a DC II (in PVE).
I prefer to armor tank. Hull just takes too long to repair. 8)
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Akuma Tsukai
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.28 05:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Smithy001 Most of the damage guristas do is kinetic
try 3x Kin, 1x EANM
this but 3 kin 1 ther. Gurista like 90% kin and deal steady dps unless ure speed/sig tanking so 2/2 split isnt good enough. ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me. |
Dolm De'Mourne
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Posted - 2010.02.28 05:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Theac Osiris
Originally by: Denuo Secus
Originally by: Snyderm Isn't it true that a DC II will always reduce the amount of damage you can tank, unless you are using an omnitank setup with at least 2 EANMs?
Because I wouldn't think that total effective HP means much unless your are PVPing.
Unless Im wrong. Its happened before. :)
If you buffer (tank) a DC is very usefull especially on Gallente ships - they have most hull HPs of all ships. DC increases hull resists mostly, armor resists quite ok and shield resists a bit. If you're using an active armor tank, resists are key. That's what makes your reps efficient. Hardeners and EANMs are always better when it comes to amor resists. Only the third EANM gives same armor resist bonus as the DC, due to stacking penalty. Then a DC is ofc better because it give hull und shield resists on top.
Right conclusion, wrong rationale. The reason DCUs are preferred once you've stacked up loads of resist modules, is that the DCU ignores the stacking penalty. Since the DCU ignores the penalty, a DCU will give more resists than a 3'rd EANM without penalizing the first two EANMs.
Would this also apply if using damage specific EAMNS?
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Vagrants Inc
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Posted - 2010.02.28 06:10:00 -
[17]
I'd suggest a dual-rep setup. Swap out the PDU for a 2nd rep and the cap. power relay for a DC II. You don't need to be able to run teh 2nd rep cap stable, just long enough for your drones to thin them out a bit.
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.02.28 09:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kessiaan I'd suggest a dual-rep setup. Swap out the PDU for a 2nd rep and the cap. power relay for a DC II. You don't need to be able to run teh 2nd rep cap stable, just long enough for your drones to thin them out a bit.
IMO the entire point of using a faction rep is so you can forego dual reps (and all the cap modules that implies).
What someone said above, get rid of the cap modules and fit more tank. A third kinetic hardener might not seem like much in exchange for getting rid of that CPR, but realize that going from 85 % resist to 90 % resist is a 33.3 % reduction in damage from that damagetype (and for Guristas, that damagetype is a vast majority of all incoming damage). That isn't insignificant by any means.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.28 11:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: King Rothgar Guristas are the nastiest npc's in game, personally, I just reject all missions against them save for lvl5's where I use a carrier. Anyways, you will need a dual repper setup. My advise is 2x LAR, DCII, 2x kinetic hardeners and 1x thermal hardener. I guess make all the mids cap rechargers though it's going to nerf your sentries kinda bad.
guristas hardly call for dual reps. the only thing that makes them nasty is that they can do most of their damage from pretty much any range with missiles. sure the ecm isn't fun, but sentries are probably the best anti ecm weapon there is.
only reason to turn down a guristas mission is if you are flying an amarr ship and are stuck with em/therm damage.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.28 11:42:00 -
[20]
Their ECM is nasty, but they are easy to tank. Simply because the vast majority of their dps is kinetic. 1 LAR + 4 hardeners is more than enough to tank them, dual LAR is really not needed. What is needed is knowing agro in assault (although with my kronos with faction repper + 3 hardeners i take full aggro, i can just tank that and it gives them time to get within tractor range). Problem with domi is that the second group far away agros when you use drones. So best is to just take their agro fairly quick, but make sure you dont kill the trigger for the other spawn.
In the second room it is just a matter of not killing the triggers too fast.
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.02.28 11:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Theac Osiris
Originally by: Denuo Secus .....Only the third EANM gives same armor resist bonus as the DC, due to stacking penalty.....
Right conclusion, wrong rationale. The reason DCUs are preferred once you've stacked up loads of resist modules, is that the DCU ignores the stacking penalty. Since the DCU ignores the penalty, a DCU will give more resists than a 3'rd EANM without penalizing the first two EANMs.
No, I guess we're talking about the same thing :P
Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne Would this also apply if using damage specific EAMNS?
Especially for racial membranes. Tho you should consider to use active hardeners then anyway. Point is: 4x racial hardener (don't stack to each other) + 1 or two EANMs. The second EANM here stacks with the first but gives still more armor resists than a DC. Only if you fit a third EANM, then a DC would be better because of the stacking of the third EANM. Hint: I'd fit a second racial hardener/membran instead of the third omni membran in missions always.
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Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
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Miakiel
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Posted - 2010.02.28 14:23:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Snyderm Or should I just be more carefull not to be so ham-fisted with spawn triggers?
this and 3 kin / 1 th hardener, not 2/2.
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Footoo Rama
Gallente Caldari Illuminati
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Posted - 2010.03.01 07:26:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Footoo Rama on 01/03/2010 07:35:22 Edited by: Footoo Rama on 01/03/2010 07:29:46 Edited by: Footoo Rama on 01/03/2010 07:28:56
Originally by: Snyderm Or should I just be more carefull not to be so ham-fisted with spawn triggers?
This might be your issue...
Drop the PDX for a DCII and drop the guns down to 250 and you can breeze through it, or run a dual Lar for that mission only. In which case you need to drop the dpx and use dual 250's. You will not drop more then 25 dps if you do that. 250's with anti work to about 30km so range is not an issue vs Gurista.
Honestly if you are not running mag stabs there really is little reason to run the 350's IMHO... You also look massively over capped, 1 cprII and 3x cap recharger II's with a single CCC rig and a single lar seems like way to much cap to me although I have not put it into eft... Nice gardes though if you have them!!
Or I run it like this with no problems and breeze through.
[Dominix, Sentry gurista] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Capacitor Power Relay II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I 100MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Garde II x5 Curator II x5
Originally by: Snyderm You can't passive tank a battleship anymore, right? After dominion, ships got their shield recharge rate nerfed. Can you show me an example (other than a rattlesnake)?
The passive Domi can still tank over 1000dps, it just uses all the slots to do it, so no AB or dmg mods. The Navy versions where tweaked to make it harder to passive tank them. I did a full write up on the Navy Domi vs the Domi where the Navy was slightly worse as a passive tanker then the regular with identical fits, but not as much as CCP seemed to state. ident fits with 3x extenders is 702vs791 Omni tanked, but using the extra mid to fit a 4th extender the Navy can omni 817, both hulls just running 2x invuln II's for resists.
------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!" |
Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.03.01 10:47:00 -
[24]
Tanking guristas? Fit a simple AB T2 and laugh at their vastly diminished DPS.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.01 11:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame IMO the entire point of using a faction rep is so you can forego dual reps (and all the cap modules that implies).
You can also go the other way – fit the kind of undersized/deadspace tank that is so popular with active shield tanking ships. Yes, you use up a lowslot but the sudden drop in cap consumption means you have lots of room left over for other toys (and toys that can still feed with plenty of left-over cap, at that). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Tatanya Darkdawn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.01 11:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Snyderm Edited by: Snyderm on 28/02/2010 02:37:09 I was running a level 4 mission, the Assault (Guristas Pirates) and I had a rather tough time with it. I had to warp out at least 3 times because the enemies were just killing me so fast I Barely had time to shoot anything. I was flying a dominix like this:
Low: Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer 2x Kinetic Hardener IIs 2x Thermal Hardener IIs Power Diagnostic II Capacitor Power Relay II
Mid: 2x Omnidirectional tracking links 3x Cap Recharder IIs
I run a similar setup...
High: rep, 2x kin, 2x therm, EANM, Mag Stab
Mid: Same as yours
...with no problems what so ever, and you have a better repper than I do. Either you are not controlling the aggro right or you are seriously lacking on damage skills.
Anyway, try the EANM II in the lows. You can also try dual rep on this particular mission. Other than that, I'd say stick to the tank you have. It's the one I run all the LVL 4's with (except for couple mission where you are better off with 2x reps instead of 1).
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.03.01 11:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Snyderm
I was running a level 4 mission, the Assault (Guristas Pirates) and I had a rather tough time with it. I had to warp out at least 3 times because the enemies were just killing me so fast I Barely had time to shoot anything.
Or should I just be more carefull not to be so ham-fisted with spawn triggers?
Which room are you having trouble with? Both rooms can be brutal if you mess up the triggers. Also it looks like your drone skills may be weak.
With the first room one of the battleships (forget the name, sorry, look for the high bounty) is the trigger and the cruisers will aggro if/when you drop drones. If your tank problems start with fighting the first group and the cruisers simultaneously then you can always fit blasters (if your rails are having trouble breaking the BS tanks without drones) and an AB (speed reduces damage) to use on the identically named battleships in the first group then when you've brought the damage down acceptably use bouncers or heavies on the cruisers. Bouncer I's aren't very exciting, they'll take a while to chew through the elite cruisers.
If the first thing you do in the first room is shoot the trigger then do a refit to dual LAR + AB + 4/5 slot dc and resistances. Or call a friend.
The second room has the trigger battleship in, I think, the second group on the left. If you just kill them right to left and try to skip the trigger I remember it not being too bad. Although, again, you have to watch your drones as they can aggro the reinforcements on deployment, as can ninja salvagers entering the room.
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Fortune Foru
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Posted - 2010.03.01 11:57:00 -
[28]
Here you go, bro. Perma rep Dual Rep setup. 650 DPS w/Ogres. 519 w/ Wardens. Not the best but it will get you through.
[Dominix, PERMA KIN/THERM DUAL REP W/AB]
Damage Control II Large Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Capacitor Power Relay II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Cap Recharger II
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Warden II x5 Ogre II x5 Hobgoblins II x5 Hornets II x5 Hammerheads II x5
Needs 'Squire' CR4 or better implant (10-15m) and it will perma run at 32% (assuming near perfect skills)
Bonus: Its not faction fitted so not a gank target!
Orbit your Sentries with the AB running and once in range switch to the Ogres and then stay at guns Optimal. I use this setup and its great.
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Cataca
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Posted - 2010.03.01 13:57:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cataca on 01/03/2010 14:04:37 some of the tips here are worthless..
Fit a damage control? For pve? seriously?
The only reason the OP had troubles with his setup is probably not fitting 2 armor rigs, which, i fear is almost a necessity with single armor reps.
edit: Also, the dps you lose with 250'ies is more than 25, due to the range loss. Even more so if you switch ammo to get to the 350+am range.
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