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Zabby Gabby
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Posted - 2010.02.27 20:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zabby Gabby on 27/02/2010 20:54:27 Firstly, This isn't a whine thread about afk cloakers. Nor is it an 'anti-cloak' idea.
Quite simply:
There is currently 3 types of Probe:
Core Scanner Probe
Deep Space Probe
Combat Scanner Probe
What is it?
My idea is that a 4th type of probe could be added, specifically made to locate (not accurately, as will be explained) cloaked ships.
So im just going to go and call it the Spacial Distortion Probe for now.
So how does it work?
It works exactly like the combat scanner probe- except it can only 'see' cloaked ships.
But here is the important part- You can only launch ONE into space at a time.
So what does that mean?
It means that you can see the cloaked ship as a sig in space, you will be able to see the sphere of space which it is currently in, but you are unable to 'scan it down', as you need a minimum of four probes to triangulate a signature.
It would be like this: Here there be a cloaky... but where?!
So what is its function?
- It makes it possible to guess/estimate the location of a cloaked ship, and whether they are on the move or stationary. i.e. You could see a cloaked ship is at/near Planet VI, or in deep space (Safe Spot)
- To see if they are watching you right now... (The area they could be in happens to be where you are...)
So what do you think? Comments, Suggestions, Flames?
Just an idea I just thought up
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Alex V0X2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.27 20:57:00 -
[2]
Ok so you launch such a probe. It goes OMIGOSH THERE BE A CLOAKY NEAR PLANET ELEBENTY.
What's the point? You can't narrow it down, but you already know there is a cloaker in the system by looking at the LOCAL window.
So this probe would jsut tell you roughly where he is.
The point?
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Reggie Stoneloader
JAFA Trade and Manufacturing Cooperative
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Posted - 2010.02.27 21:08:00 -
[3]
It would let you see whether or not he's moving around, and if he's camping a gate you might get a notion of which gate he's camping, so you could try some kind of clever baiting maneuver or just find another way around. I like it. ======================
Crusades: Security Status |
mchief117
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Posted - 2010.02.27 21:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Alex V0X2 Ok so you launch such a probe. It goes OMIGOSH THERE BE A CLOAKY NEAR PLANET ELEBENTY.
What's the point? You can't narrow it down, but you already know there is a cloaker in the system by looking at the LOCAL window.
So this probe would jsut tell you roughly where he is.
The point?
launch probe and set its range to 500K and then center it on your pos , you know know if your being watched
launch probe and set its range to 250k then set on gate , you knwo knwo if its being watched
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.02.27 21:12:00 -
[5]
Not much point in cloaking if you can be seen, eh? ___
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Zabby Gabby
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Posted - 2010.02.27 21:29:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Zabby Gabby on 27/02/2010 21:34:11
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Not much point in cloaking if you can be seen, eh?
If the scanning time for the cloaky prober was increased to about... lets say, 2 minutes, it would still be a useful tool to see if something is being monitored, while barely affecting the effectiveness of cloaking to gather intel/catch prey.
I know for a fact, if you know there is a cloaked hostile in the system, you are paranoid that he is just a few km off your ship. But if you have just scanned him half way across the solar system, you might let your guard down a little... which could be a fatal mistake.
e.g. If the cloaked ship had just been scanned near Stargate A, then the scanner/his friends would not be nearly as scared to use Stargate B in the next few minutes, but if the cloaker is proactive, that would allow him to get easy kills
Although if this idea was expanded/refined, it could turn out to be very neat... please try posting suggestions with your critisims though .
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.02.27 23:35:00 -
[7]
From what I understand, once you hit the cloak button, there are NO coordinates sent from the server to any client. If there were, people could mod their client to see you. So doing this wont work, nor will any type of finding cloakies.
Requiring cloak fuel is something CCP is considering. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see it either.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.02.27 23:55:00 -
[8]
Quite simply.
Yes it is another anti cloak / nerf / afk / whine thread.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Fyretracker Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.28 01:01:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Viktor Fyretracker on 28/02/2010 01:05:43 Edited by: Viktor Fyretracker on 28/02/2010 01:03:27 there should be a way to see cloaked ships, however it should be a module on a Tech 1 destroyer only and it works like a "sonar" ping out from the destroyer. this means the destroyer pilot has to go hunting for ships that could pretty easy instagib them.
however along with this change id add something else, when cloaked the pilot of the stealth ship does not appear on local at all.
so just like ASW warfare you have to devote your HK groups around areas with targets of value to an enemy. add to this maybe make it so you cant active ping close to a stargate(make up some BS about extreme levels of EM and gravity given off by the gate). limiting use to near a stargate means a destroyer and friends couldnt sit on a gate with the sonar ping going constantly.
*i am using Sonar as a point of reference, clearly sonar would not work in space and yes i am looking at cloaker hunting like WW2 era ASW rather then modern ASW as in a game like EVE being able to deploy a "SOSA net" would honestly be OP.
in short i think stealth hunting should be in game but it should take effort, as the other guy has to be a sneaky bastard to get past the camps, bubbles and space trash left around gates to decloak him.
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Zedic
Amarr Universalis Imperium
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Posted - 2010.02.28 01:50:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zedic on 28/02/2010 01:50:32 No. Just No. Pay attention to local, stay aligned, don't mine alone, don't rat alone, know your region, know your constellation's intel channel, use them, never do "important stuff" without escorts and scouts.
Just no. Cloaking is fine. It does not need to be tuned, or tweaked, or modified or changed. Pay Attention to local. If someone is there, and they don't have positive standings, assume they are *not* afk, *not* cloaked, and are coming to kill you, your friends, your cat, your houseplants and to pee in your next door neighbor's garbage cans. It's that simple.
Long Live the LV "Sneaky Bastards". Brave and crazy. More crazy than brave.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.28 03:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mag's Quite simply.
Yes it is another anti cloak / nerf / afk / whine thread.
QFT.
OK, for the anti cloaking lobbyists, let's have a probe that finds all cloaked ships. You can only launch it just after DT and it takes 24 hours to get the results so you'll know where they are after the next DT.
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.02.28 21:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mag's Quite simply.
Yes it is another anti cloak / nerf / afk / whine thread.
the only people who seam to whine about this sort of idea are the people who love there invincability shield and dont want a chance that it may not be "super effective" anymore
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.02.28 21:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: mchief117
Originally by: Mag's Quite simply.
Yes it is another anti cloak / nerf / afk / whine thread.
the only people who seam to whine about this sort of idea are the people who love there invincability shield and dont want a chance that it may not be "super effective" anymore
clocked ships arent invincible. maybe get out of empire for a while.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.01 12:17:00 -
[14]
I believe my sig is relavant here ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Jade Mitch
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.03.01 12:49:00 -
[15]
A cloak is not a spacial distortion, it's a subspace phase transition. Anyone with more than a 5 million SP education should know that all mass in subspace is undetectable from normal space.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.01 13:01:00 -
[16]
So this probe is useless in systems with local, and makes cloaks useless in systems without local?
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Im Nutz
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Posted - 2010.03.01 15:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: mchief117
Originally by: Alex V0X2 Ok so you launch such a probe. It goes OMIGOSH THERE BE A CLOAKY NEAR PLANET ELEBENTY.
What's the point? You can't narrow it down, but you already know there is a cloaker in the system by looking at the LOCAL window.
So this probe would jsut tell you roughly where he is.
The point?
launch probe and set its range to 500K and then center it on your pos , you know know if your being watched
launch probe and set its range to 250k then set on gate , you knwo knwo if its being watched
Scan probes don't have that fine of a scan range. The smallest they go is .25 AU, or 37,399,500 KM. Not exactly accurate for pegging a ship with one probe. A good scout wouldn't be that close to a gate without good reason/orders anyways. You can get ship types and counts from 14 AU away using the D-Scanner. Other then giving a very general area of where the cloaked scout *might* be, it's a limited tool.
Anything that a smart pilot can use to their advantage in some meaningful way wouldn't be a bad thing IMO.
OP, interesting idea. Hopefully it makes it to a better level of refinement.
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Cedims
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Posted - 2010.03.03 00:53:00 -
[18]
Cloak is the actual counter measure to scanning/probes. Which is why local should be nerfed.
Remove the character "listing" in local. So that unless you manually reveal yourself, no one knows you're there!
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prefectro
Minmatar tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.03.03 02:06:00 -
[19]
I would be for this if they got rid of local.
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TechnoViking
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Posted - 2010.03.03 03:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: prefectro I would be for this if they got rid of local.
If they got rid of local, how would your macro know when to warp out?
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Asheru
Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.03.03 03:53:00 -
[21]
All they would need to do to fix cloaking is make the duration of the cloak about 3 minutes (a completely arbitrary number) and make it impossible to auto-repeat. Problem solved. Same for strip miners.
Is this unfair? Please, elaborate if you disagree.
Yes, I'm a miner, but I am not the focus here. My argument is sound. Disprove my logic before you start with the ad hominem.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.03 04:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Asheru Edited by: Asheru on 03/03/2010 03:57:09 All they would need to do to fix cloaking is make the duration of the cloak about 3 minutes (a completely arbitrary number) and make it impossible to auto-repeat. Problem solved. Same for strip miners.
Is this unfair? Please, elaborate if you disagree.
Yes, I'm a miner, but I am not the focus here. My argument is sound. Disprove my logic before you start with the ad hominem.
Edit: upon further review and another rum and coke, the Captain and myself have come to the conclusion that the auto-repeat thing, as a whole, is bad.
you should get sober again and be ashamed how much crap you posted.
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Asheru
Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.03.03 04:59:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Asheru on 03/03/2010 05:00:41
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Asheru Edited by: Asheru on 03/03/2010 03:57:09 All they would need to do to fix cloaking is make the duration of the cloak about 3 minutes (a completely arbitrary number) and make it impossible to auto-repeat. Problem solved. Same for strip miners.
Is this unfair? Please, elaborate if you disagree.
Yes, I'm a miner, but I am not the focus here. My argument is sound. Disprove my logic before you start with the ad hominem.
Edit: upon further review and another rum and coke, the Captain and myself have come to the conclusion that the auto-repeat thing, as a whole, is bad.
you should get sober again and be ashamed how much crap you posted.
I didn't say impossible to repeat, I said impossible to auto-repeat. Your cloak drops every couple minutes and you need to press the button again to re-cloak. This strips enemies of their ability to disrupt industry just by simply "being there" while cloaked. They do absolutely nothing. Half the time, they're sleeping. But they maintain a presence in local that intimidates a whole system of miners while the cloaker does absolutely nothing. This is the definition of imbalance.
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David Grogan
Gallente Final Conflict UK Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.03.03 11:41:00 -
[24]
Edited by: David Grogan on 03/03/2010 11:42:44
no change to cloak --- if u make cloaks even more penalised than they already are u will kill off a whole aspect of warfare. t1 /t2 improved cloaks already penalise your scan resolution, prevent u from warping or locking while cloaked and require an insane amount of time to recalibrate sensors after u decloak. cloak gets easily knocked off by close proximity or drones, speed while cloaked is painfully slow, & cannot recloak for 15 seconds.
t2 cov ops cloaks already penalise your scan resolution, prevent u from locking while cloaked and can only be fitted on papar thin ships. cloak gets easily knocked off by close proximity or drones.
no need to nerf the cloak. nerfing the cloak will actually make it easier for macro ratters to live in 0.0 cos they would scan u down and pop ya then go back to ratting mode.
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Cedims
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Posted - 2010.03.04 03:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Asheru Please, elaborate if you disagree.
There simply is nothing TO "fix" with the cloak. It IS itself the balance countering scanning/probes, and is doing it very well.
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McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.04 07:28:00 -
[26]
This idea is terrible. This idea is terrible. This idea is terrible. This idea is terrible. This idea is terrible.
1) W-space carebears' risk will drop considerably. T3 ships for the masses? I don't think so...
2) Everywhere else - it is a pointless feature. You have local and brains (or at least a catalyzing agent to stir it) and can confirm a cloaky ship is about in less time it take to launch the probe.
3) Since you propose only one, there would never be a point to use it in a less than its max range - I believe 32AU? - which will provide you with a too big sphere of no-idea-where-that-ship-is. So moving to issue #4
4) Probes can be seen on scan as well. The only use I forsee for this is shoving it down the throat of a cov ops scout for a t1 cloaky hauler in a system that's been locked down with guerilla cloaky warfare. You want your hauler to get to the gate just as the cloaker move away from it. You throw a 2AU probe find-me-a-cloaky probe around the exit gate and wait out at 2.5AU<x with your safed up hauler. The cloakys know it and do one of three things: a. stay for an hour by the gate till you have to launch another one or b. one of them jumps to the target system so you would risk falling to their lap or c. do both (a) and (b).
5) All of the above basically means less risk in the game, less interest in the game and less movement in the game, making eve a that-much-more-boring-game.
/me does not endorse this terribad idea.
Editing your watchlist |
Asheru
Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.03.04 08:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cedims
Originally by: Asheru Please, elaborate if you disagree.
There simply is nothing TO "fix" with the cloak. It IS itself the balance countering scanning/probes, and is doing it very well.
The point that I am trying to argue is that in order to intimidate a whole system of miners in enemy sovereign territory, a cloaker should at least have to be sitting at his keyboard. With the system as it is now, this is not the case.
Disabling auto-repeat on cloaks wouldn't change any of the mechanics. I wouldn't even consider it a nerf. You still wouldn't be probe-able while cloaked. If you are indeed at your keyboard actively engaged in playing the game, you can just click your cloak again. If you are not at your keyboard when your cloak drops, you can be probed out until you wake up and press the button again.
How would this change be unfair to cloakers?
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McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.04 08:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Asheru
Originally by: Cedims
Originally by: Asheru Please, elaborate if you disagree.
There simply is nothing TO "fix" with the cloak. It IS itself the balance countering scanning/probes, and is doing it very well.
The point that I am trying to argue is that in order to intimidate a whole system of miners in enemy sovereign territory, a cloaker should at least have to be sitting at his keyboard. With the system as it is now, this is not the case.
Disabling auto-repeat on cloaks wouldn't change any of the mechanics. I wouldn't even consider it a nerf. You still wouldn't be probe-able while cloaked. If you are indeed at your keyboard actively engaged in playing the game, you can just click your cloak again. If you are not at your keyboard when your cloak drops, you can be probed out until you wake up and press the button again.
How would this change be unfair to cloakers?
Sneaking in a comment - this is off-topic for this thread.
Sneaking in an off-topic comment - your idea will force cloakers to become "blinkers". Scouting will become a nightmare and there will be much less pvp in eve. Your idea shows that you haven't grasped the scope of what continues cloaking means and what it brings to the game, besides the occasionally ganked hulks. So in essence, your idea kinda defies the whole cloaking idea to begin with. There are enough events in the life cycle of a cloaker that forces them to decloak without some stupid arbitrary disengagement.
Also, please don't forget that cloaks, after all, do include quite a lot of hindrances, and in those I include weakened ship designs of "natural" cloakers, which are weaker (less tank, less dps etc) vs non-natural cloakers when compared head-to-head (E.g. pit a Huggin with a rapier and the answer surfaces immediately).
You presume cloaking is some sort of an i-win button while fact and life on the eve server disproves it. Start flying them and you'll see.
Editing your watchlist |
Asheru
Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.03.04 08:57:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Asheru on 04/03/2010 08:57:09 It will force cloakers to become blinkers?
Sort of like, what? Forcing me to press the scan button every 2 seconds because a cloaker went to sleep in my mining system?
My proposed change would be completely fair to all parties involved.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.04 10:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Asheru Edited by: Asheru on 04/03/2010 08:57:09 It will force cloakers to become blinkers?
Sort of like, what? Forcing me to press the scan button every 2 seconds because a cloaker went to sleep in my mining system?
My proposed change would be completely fair to all parties involved.
you have neutrals/reds in local and keep mining.... yes you are smart.
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