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Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
I didn't know combat ships had infinite sized cargo holds. |
Guillame Herschel
Quantum Cats Syndicate
37
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 20:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:To make it simpler for you, the amount of rep is the same either you put 200 Cap Boost charges or 800, there's no point on fitting 800's when with 200's you can make the thing run longer and rep same amount par cycle.
Does it use 1 charge per cycle, or does it use as many charges as it needs to fulfill the cap cost of one boost cycle?
Also, do ships with a shield boost bonus apply the bonus to the new shield thingy? |
Xanral
Ajo Heavy Industries
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 20:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
I posted this over on FHC but I'll repost it here:
--- Decided to run some numbers to do a comparison between the dual X-L ASB and a Pith X-Type X-LSB and a Dread Guristas X-LSB. This assumes using navy 400s on the ASB (smallest choice for the X-L).
An example on my notation to avoid confusion: If you are +100% faster than a ship traveling 1000 m/s then that means you are traveling at 2000 m/s.
Case A description: A 2 minute steady boost cycle (keep in mind that the ASB cannot boost all 60 seconds so its only 52/60 of the listed number in EFT etc) without links or crystals.
Case B description: A 2 minute steady boost cycle with max tengu links (just resistance for the ASB as again we're looking at steady state and all 3 for the Pith and DG ones).
Case C description: How efficient is the boost amount in m3. (assumes ASB never uses cap to boost and that the normal X-LSBs use only cap supplied by the booster)
Case D description: The same as C but with Tengu links.
Case A-low neut (so the ASB cannot run off cap at all): Dual X-L ASB is +40% stronger than the DG X-L Dual X-L ASB is +1% stronger than the Pith X X-L
Case A-heavy neut (you can only get 1 boost on the normal X-LSBs a cap charge and are using navy 800s in a single T2 cap booster): Dual X-L ASB is +384% stronger than the DG X-L Dual X-L ASB is +245% stronger than the Pith X X-L
Case B-low neut (so the ASB cannot run at all off cap): Pith X X-L is +52% stronger than the Dual X-L ASB DG X-L is +9% stronger than the Dual X-L ASB
Case C: Dual X-L ASB is +47% more efficient than the DG X-L Dual X-L ASB is +5% more efficient than the Pith X X-L
Case D : DG X-L is +5% more efficient than the Dual X-L ASB Pith X X-L is +47% more efficient than the Dual X-L ASB
---
My suggestion for nerfing them would be to increase the cycle time on the X-L from 4 to 5 seconds but leave the boost amount the same(so -20% to shield/sec). I'd also never come out with a T2 or faction/deadspace version of them. It would decrease their ability to act as super boosters against massive sustained dps for more than 60 seconds and make them better in certain situations but worse than others in comparing it to certain shield and armor setups. |
Xanral
Ajo Heavy Industries
12
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Posted - 2012.06.28 21:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Guillame Herschel wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:To make it simpler for you, the amount of rep is the same either you put 200 Cap Boost charges or 800, there's no point on fitting 800's when with 200's you can make the thing run longer and rep same amount par cycle. Does it use 1 charge per cycle, or does it use as many charges as it needs to fulfill the cap cost of one boost cycle? Also, do ships with a shield boost bonus apply the bonus to the new shield thingy?
It uses 1 charge per cycle regardless of size.
Upon release there were certain things that did not apply, now everything that works for normal shield boosters applies from Marauder boosts to blue pill.
Also ships without a vamp and needing cap for guns and invulnerability fields are questionable fits imo as sufficient neuting will shut off your offense and a significant portion of your defense as you no longer have a normal cap booster. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8271
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 21:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Rokh of Ages: (for low-sec use) GǪso what you've built there is basically a PST Drake with a bit more damage (and a bit less tank). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Kilabi
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 23:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
Well i didnt explained because i thought that people would see the problem.
So why is ancillary shield boosters overpowered :
1.) Its not consumming any cap. (so immune to neuts) 2.) DPS tanked is quite huge. You can easyly PERMA TANK 6 guys in sub BS ships. (Dont tell me about reload time, PLEASE, you fit 2 of it and its done, ) 3.) As it can use small charges, you can take in your cargo a lot of cap boosters (so you can tenk a very long time)
So basicly, with this new sbs, its easy to make a ship able to tank without any problems small-medium gangs IN SOLO. And this for T2 price.
I would like to underline that now, normal active shield fits, even pimped looks so ****** up compared to this new boosters.
And if ccp doesnt do anything, when all people will have understand the overpower of this ancillary SB compared to other active fits, well metagame will be just ****, with people trying to make solo in same ****** fits.
If i pointed the fact that small/big charges doesnt change anything, it was to show you that this sb mechanics are ****** anyway and need to be fixed anyway....
Also, thats so boring to see people speaking without any or small understanding of the problem. For instance, a nice one here :
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Ancillary fits are ridiculously easy to kill if you go about it the right way.
protips for the pants-on-head ******** 1) They have almost no buffer 2) They gonna run out of boosters eventually 3) They can solo-tank your gang, but solo tankers don't do well vs ECM.
1.) Like all the active tanks, and on BS, its still pretty decent. 2.) oh, really? 3.) HOW THE **** YOU KILL PEOPLE WITH ECM!!!?
For god sake, do we play the same game... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8272
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 23:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kilabi wrote:1.) Its not consumming any cap. (so immune to neuts) GǪexcept that neuts will still reduce its tank.
Quote:2.) DPS tanked is quite huge. You can easyly PERMA TANK 6 guys in sub BS ships. Maybe they should use something bigger than Mauluses thenGǪ
Quote:1.) Like all the active tanks, and on BS, its still pretty decent. It's about as decent as on a combat BC, which goes pop quite nicely.
Quote:2.) oh, really? 3.) HOW THE **** YOU KILL PEOPLE WITH ECM!!!? The two are connected: yes, he's going to run out of booster charges eventually, and due to the ECM, he's not going to be a threat so you can take as long as you like. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Guillame Herschel
Quantum Cats Syndicate
37
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 00:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xanral wrote:Guillame Herschel wrote:Does it use 1 charge per cycle, or does it use as many charges as it needs to fulfill the cap cost of one boost cycle?
Also, do ships with a shield boost bonus apply the bonus to the new shield thingy? It uses 1 charge per cycle regardless of size. Upon release there were certain things that did not apply, now everything that works for normal shield boosters applies from Marauder boosts to blue pill.
OK thanks. Navy 150 charges FTW. Five cycles before reload.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4183
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Posted - 2012.06.29 01:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
TheBreadMuncher wrote:Malcanis wrote: Can you quantify how overpowered they are compared to buffer/logi tanking? I don't think that anyone could, with a straight face, deny that active tanking is horribly underpowered compared to buffered.
Sorry, sir, but I'd quite like you to remove your underpants from your head. You surely must be insane? I have experience flying both buffer and active and, quite frankly, active is so much better than buffer. Unless you're flying in a blobfleet, but that's a different story.
In your universe "blobfleets" consist of 5 or more ships? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
231
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Posted - 2012.06.29 02:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Ancillary fits are ridiculously easy to kill if you go about it the right way.
protips for the pants-on-head ******** 1) They have almost no buffer 2) They gonna run out of boosters eventually 3) They can solo-tank your gang, but solo tankers don't do well vs ECM. 1.) Like all the active tanks, and on BS, its still pretty decent. 2.) oh, really? 3.) HOW THE **** YOU KILL PEOPLE WITH ECM!!!? For god sake, do we play the same game... 1) No, it's WORSE than the typical active tank (which is paper thin anyway), because if you are doing ASB fits correctly you are fitting boost amps instead of hardeners, and you probably won't have the CPU for a damage control. ie, much lower resistances, much less EHP, bring a damn tornado dummy. 2) Yes 3) You jam them, then you sit there shooting them for as long as you please because they are unable to shoot back.
For gods sake, have you actually flown an ASB fit ship? There should be a rather awesome pic here |
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LilRemmy
Synaptic Void THORN Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 03:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
shhh |
snake pies
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
46
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 03:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
The other day a bunch of cyclones came for a roam with ancillary shield boosters, and they tanked well, but they all died to regular ships still.
It is not overpowered, it is an enjoyable surprise to come across them, leave them as the are or they will become an unused module like so many other.
|
Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
390
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 04:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
I like them alot. I've used them in combat and I've faced them in combat. They're not overpowered and they add a new dimension to the game that essentially tosses a hand grenade onto established fits and concepts.
They have a fantastic tank that is available to the common man. It lasts a short period of time but in that time you can take one hell of alot of abuse. They are not completely immune to nuets but they do make nuets alot more of a question. You are not going to completely shut down the tank with nuets. You're trying to shut down the weapon system - and that is alot harder to do.
It's also possible to overtank a ship; that is to tank it to the point where you gut it's DPS. I had a gank fit Enyo take out a Hawk with dual Medium A. Boosters. My enyo's tank consisted of a damage control and a explosive plating II. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
233
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 05:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:It's also possible to overtank a ship; that is to tank it to the point where you gut it's DPS. I had a gank fit Enyo take out a Hawk with dual Medium A. Boosters. That same tank is pretty nice on a sabre ;) There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Kilabi
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 14:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Ancillary fits are ridiculously easy to kill if you go about it the right way.
protips for the pants-on-head ******** 1) They have almost no buffer 2) They gonna run out of boosters eventually 3) They can solo-tank your gang, but solo tankers don't do well vs ECM. 1.) Like all the active tanks, and on BS, its still pretty decent. 2.) oh, really? 3.) HOW THE **** YOU KILL PEOPLE WITH ECM!!!? For god sake, do we play the same game... 1) No, it's WORSE than the typical active tank (which is paper thin anyway), because if you are doing ASB fits correctly you are fitting boost amps instead of hardeners, and you probably won't have the CPU for a damage control. ie, much lower resistances, much less EHP, bring a damn tornado dummy. 2) Yes 3) You jam them, then you sit there shooting them for as long as you please because they are unable to shoot back. For gods sake, have you actually flown an ASB fit ship?
lol, yeah i forgot that i alphaed a maelstrom last week with my cane. And while you are shooting they back while ECM, they can jump back \o/ (if they are not stupid and you are really going to kill them).
So to sum up :
We have a module which makes other active tanks ridiculous. (Who will be enough stupid to use regular and expensive active shield tanks now? For armor this is till different, but still loking ridiculous compared to ASB...) It is giving so much boost that nearly all logis in ATX fitted one. There is NO COUNTERS against them (what has been said before is just bullshit, clearly : "alpha them" (Bring your ten slaves in tornados please, ive a lonedly cyclone to kill), waiting them to run out of cap boosters (10mn to put down a dual asb mael with 2 proteus, yes TEN MINUTES), and i dont speak about ecm.... yeah what subcap ship is invulnerable to ecm?)
If you want to KILL THEM, not to survive, that IS NOT THE QUESTION, escaping is not a win.
So metagame for solo/small gang is just ****** up now.
AND EVERYONE FINDS IT FINE?
WAKE UP PLEASE!
When everyone will play your solo cyclone of da death, you wont find it fun at all. |
Signal11th
580
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 14:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Ancillary fits are ridiculously easy to kill if you go about it the right way.
protips for the pants-on-head ******** 1) They have almost no buffer 2) They gonna run out of boosters eventually 3) They can solo-tank your gang, but solo tankers don't do well vs ECM. 1.) Like all the active tanks, and on BS, its still pretty decent. 2.) oh, really? 3.) HOW THE **** YOU KILL PEOPLE WITH ECM!!!? For god sake, do we play the same game... 1) No, it's WORSE than the typical active tank (which is paper thin anyway), because if you are doing ASB fits correctly you are fitting boost amps instead of hardeners, and you probably won't have the CPU for a damage control. ie, much lower resistances, much less EHP, bring a damn tornado dummy. 2) Yes 3) You jam them, then you sit there shooting them for as long as you please because they are unable to shoot back. For gods sake, have you actually flown an ASB fit ship? lol, yeah i forgot that i alphaed a maelstrom last week with my cane. And while you are shooting they back while ECM, they can jump back \o/ (if they are not stupid and you are really going to kill them). So to sum up : We have a module which makes other active tanks ridiculous. (Who will be enough stupid to use regular and expensive active shield tanks now? For armor this is till different, but still loking ridiculous compared to ASB...) It is giving so much boost that nearly all logis in ATX fitted one. There is NO COUNTERS against them (what has been said before is just bullshit, clearly : "alpha them" (Bring your ten slaves in tornados please, ive a lonedly cyclone to kill), waiting them to run out of cap boosters (10mn to put down a dual asb mael with 2 proteus, yes TEN MINUTES), and i dont speak about ecm.... yeah what subcap ship is invulnerable to ecm?) If you want to KILL THEM, not to survive, that IS NOT THE QUESTION, escaping is not a win. So metagame for solo/small gang is just ****** up now. AND EVERYONE FINDS IT FINE? WAKE UP PLEASE! When everyone will play your solo cyclone of da death, you wont find it fun at all.
Plenty of people who just fought in the alliance tourney will disagree with you. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
249
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 14:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Ancillary fits are ridiculously easy to kill if you go about it the right way.
protips for the pants-on-head ******** 1) They have almost no buffer 2) They gonna run out of boosters eventually 3) They can solo-tank your gang, but solo tankers don't do well vs ECM. 1.) Like all the active tanks, and on BS, its still pretty decent. 2.) oh, really? 3.) HOW THE **** YOU KILL PEOPLE WITH ECM!!!? For god sake, do we play the same game... 1) No, it's WORSE than the typical active tank (which is paper thin anyway), because if you are doing ASB fits correctly you are fitting boost amps instead of hardeners, and you probably won't have the CPU for a damage control. ie, much lower resistances, much less EHP, bring a damn tornado dummy. 2) Yes 3) You jam them, then you sit there shooting them for as long as you please because they are unable to shoot back. For gods sake, have you actually flown an ASB fit ship? lol, yeah i forgot that i alphaed a maelstrom last week with my cane. And while you are shooting they back while ECM, they can jump back \o/ (if they are not stupid and you are really going to kill them). Man fails to solo kill a BS while in a BC, whines - More at 11 There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Kilabi
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 15:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Ancillary fits are ridiculously easy to kill if you go about it the right way.
protips for the pants-on-head ******** 1) They have almost no buffer 2) They gonna run out of boosters eventually 3) They can solo-tank your gang, but solo tankers don't do well vs ECM. 1.) Like all the active tanks, and on BS, its still pretty decent. 2.) oh, really? 3.) HOW THE **** YOU KILL PEOPLE WITH ECM!!!? For god sake, do we play the same game... 1) No, it's WORSE than the typical active tank (which is paper thin anyway), because if you are doing ASB fits correctly you are fitting boost amps instead of hardeners, and you probably won't have the CPU for a damage control. ie, much lower resistances, much less EHP, bring a damn tornado dummy. 2) Yes 3) You jam them, then you sit there shooting them for as long as you please because they are unable to shoot back. For gods sake, have you actually flown an ASB fit ship? lol, yeah i forgot that i alphaed a maelstrom last week with my cane. And while you are shooting they back while ECM, they can jump back \o/ (if they are not stupid and you are really going to kill them). Man fails to solo kill a BS while in a BC, whines - More at 11
If fail fitted/piloted an ASB BS would be taken down by a BC easylee. It would just take 20-30mn.
I guess that people not seeing the problem are not used to make small gang/solo PvP.
And if you are and still not enough lucid to see the problem, you will see it in 3-6 Monthes...
EDIT : And yes, limiting this module to one per ship would be a good compromise i think... |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
116
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 16:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
I like flying in small gangs, and I like the new shield booster, but I must admit it didn't make sense at launch and still doesn't. If it repped the same amount of shield as a normal shield booster, it would still be better than a normal shield booster. With a normal shield booster you need a cap booster and a shield booster, taking up 2 mid slots (plus most likely cap rigs). The ASB does the same but using only one slot, combining the shield booster and cap booster into one mod. The thing is they don't rep the same amount of shield, the ABS reps twice the shield of a normal shield booster of the same size. To me that doesn't really make sense, if anything it should be the other way around. The normal shield booster that takes cap should be healing more shield, not the neut-immune shield booster that only uses up one slot. |
Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
401
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 17:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
By themselves the ancillary boosters are very reasonable. Great tank for a short period of time. Even the dual X-Large Mael and Rokh aren't that bad. The Mael reps 1271 with one and 2543 with two. The Rokh reps 1228 and 2456 respectively. It doesn't take that many ships to force these ships to use both boosters at the same time. And once that happens their life expectancy is limited.
The problem is when people have off-grid Tengu boosters, crystal implants, and blue pills. The numbers above get boosted to insane levels. Remove off-grid boosting and we wouldn't be having this conversation. |
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Freezehunter
199
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 17:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
I agree that it should be one per ship...
That 60 sec reload is totally being negated by putting 2 or more of the things on your ship.
It's bullshit when a single battleship can tank an entire gate camp for 8 minutes. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
168
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 17:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
Why it's OP (ignore the battleclinic):
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/61583-Rokh-God-of-highsec.html
Now the Caldari actually have a viable counter to the Shield Hyperion - woe is me >_< "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
coldhart Siner
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 20:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
If you limit them to one per ship they need to be also let them boost from your cap well reloading |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1409
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 20:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Anci shield fits: officially unstoppable solopwnmobiles.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
171
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 20:49:00 -
[55] - Quote
Is it only OP because you're losing fights because of it?? Tilts the balance away from your killmails? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1409
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 20:53:00 -
[56] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:Is it only OP because you're losing fights because of it?? Tilts the balance away from your killmails? That doesn't really make any sense, everything that is OP results in people losing fights from it. And what do ancillary shield boosters have to do with KMs?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Kilabi
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 21:27:00 -
[57] - Quote
Its not about whining about "thats so unfair i lost my ultrapimped ship vs a ****** T1 fitted ASB BC". (And if you want to know, i didnt lost any ship to this new fits, so really idc about it.)
Its about not ruining the metagame.
The other active fits are so weak compared to this new one. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
251
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 00:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
/thread
Gee, it's like if you just shoot at an ancil fit long enough it dies in a humiliating fire
Adapt or die bitches There should be a rather awesome pic here |
MinefieldS
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 03:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
hahaha 240 points |
Shade Millith
Fortis Defensor.
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 05:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Kilabi wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Ancillary fits are ridiculously easy to kill if you go about it the right way.
protips for the pants-on-head ******** 1) They have almost no buffer 2) They gonna run out of boosters eventually 3) They can solo-tank your gang, but solo tankers don't do well vs ECM. 1.) Like all the active tanks, and on BS, its still pretty decent. 2.) oh, really? 3.) HOW THE **** YOU KILL PEOPLE WITH ECM!!!? For god sake, do we play the same game... 1) No, it's WORSE than the typical active tank (which is paper thin anyway), because if you are doing ASB fits correctly you are fitting boost amps instead of hardeners, and you probably won't have the CPU for a damage control. ie, much lower resistances, much less EHP, bring a damn tornado dummy. 2) Yes 3) You jam them, then you sit there shooting them for as long as you please because they are unable to shoot back. For gods sake, have you actually flown an ASB fit ship? lol, yeah i forgot that i alphaed a maelstrom last week with my cane.
You wouldn't have had any more luck if the Maelstrom was normally shield boosting.
The fits have -
Far less EHP - Subject to alpha even worse than normal SBing fits No Capbooster - Suject to neuting Require150+ more CPU (ASB's require 200 CPU each). - Fits are VERY tight, and require fitting mods, removing damage |
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