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Sashi Romanova
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:25:00 -
[1]
As an FC, every time I hear a Falcon/Kitsune/Rook/Scorp/BB pilot say something along the lines of:
"I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good,"
....I strangle baby kittens. Thats right. Every time one of you say that phrase, I strangle a baby kitten.
So please. Think of the kittens.
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Kijo Rikki
Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:36:00 -
[2]
To be completely honest with you, my blackbird with racials vs my griff with multi's? Griff kicks its ass, I'd say about 75% of the time I'm jammin in my griff. My blackbird has yet to effectively jam anything in a fight.
Sure, every now and then I lock someone down for one turn, but I'd say my BB has a 35% or worse success ratio.
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Mish'Kala
Minmatar Eye of Osiris EDGE Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:36:00 -
[3]
WTB - Adult Kittens
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kijo Rikki To be completely honest with you, my blackbird with racials vs my griff with multi's? Griff kicks its ass, I'd say about 75% of the time I'm jammin in my griff. My blackbird has yet to effectively jam anything in a fight.
Sure, every now and then I lock someone down for one turn, but I'd say my BB has a 35% or worse success ratio.
Use Griffin with racials = even better jamming. ;) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Velieris
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:43:00 -
[5]
[Falcon, New Setup 1] Signal Amplifier II Signal Amplifier II Signal Amplifier II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
250mm Railgun II, Iron Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Iron Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Iron Charge M Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Lols? Now go kill a kitten! DEATH TO ALL KITTYS!
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Sashi Romanova
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kijo Rikki To be completely honest with you, my blackbird with racials vs my griff with multi's? Griff kicks its ass, I'd say about 75% of the time I'm jammin in my griff. My blackbird has yet to effectively jam anything in a fight.
Sure, every now and then I lock someone down for one turn, but I'd say my BB has a 35% or worse success ratio.
There's one kitten dead already in this thread and we haven't even gotten started.
If you'll at least concede to putting 1 grav jammer on, if you're really dead set on multis, then I'll only maim instead of kill the next one.
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Kijo Rikki
Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:43:00 -
[7]
I think for me possibly my electronics skills are not par enough to see a real benefit from racial jamming yet.
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Incipus
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kijo Rikki I think for me possibly my electronics skills are not par enough to see a real benefit from racial jamming yet.
It has nothing to do with skills, it's probability based. If you use all racials and at least half of them are hitting their targeted race, you're doing better than all multispectrals. If less than half are hitting(not jamming, activated on) their targeted race, then you're doing worse.
Lets look at 4 jammers, for simplicity. The racials are 1.5x jam strength on race, 0.5 on race, and a multispectral is 1.0 always.
Multispectral is always 4 x 1 = 4.0 jam strength.
1 Matched race: 1.5+0.5+0.5+0.5 = 3.0 vs 4.0 ... Racials lose. 2 Matched race: 1.5+1.5+0.5+0.5 = 4.0 vs 4.0 ... Even. 3 Matched race: 1.5+1.5+1.5+0.5 = 5.0 vs 4.0 ... Racials win, by 25% 4 Matched race: 1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5 = 6.0 vs 4.0 ... Racials win, by 50%.
In a fleet fight, you can probably find someone of the proper ship type to zap with each racial, so you're going to be better off flying racials. If there are more of x race's ships on average, then fit more of that type of jammer.
If you're going to be facing one or two pilots then racials are a more dangerous choice..If you're facing 10-20, they are a no brainer... They will jam their matched race 50% better than a multispectral, and jam other races 50% worse.
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Susy Assulu
Caldari Atomic Mexicans
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kijo Rikki edit: I'll consider 1 grav jammer if you'll only maim. <3 But to me that just seems I'll be gimped one jammer unless the Caldari come crash my minmatar FW party.
You should always fit a Caldari racial, part the reason you are there is to take out the enemy ECM :) Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. StevieSG |
Sashi Romanova
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Posted - 2010.01.14 18:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kijo Rikki Edited by: Kijo Rikki on 14/01/2010 17:49:17 I think for me possibly my electronics skills are not par enough to see a real benefit from racial jamming yet.
edit: I'll consider 1 grav jammer if you'll only maim. <3 But to me that just seems I'll be gimped one jammer unless the Caldari come crash my minmatar FW party.
okay, here's scenario that i see all to often:
two gangs flop into each other (ever jumped on a waterbed? yeah it's kinda like that sometimes).
Both sides have a falcon. One has racials. the other has multis. racial falcon permajams other falcon, and now his gang has battlefield control.
one and done.
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Velieris
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Posted - 2010.01.14 18:14:00 -
[11]
Oh and just to let you know that fit I put on is a complete joke, I would fit Racial Jammers always, nothing else, and all the people fitting multis shall die a horrible death then get a pasting from their FC :D
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Sashi Romanova
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Posted - 2010.01.14 18:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Velieris Oh and just to let you know that fit I put on is a complete joke, I would fit Racial Jammers always, nothing else, and all the people fitting multis shall die a horrible death then get a pasting from their FC :D
too late. we're already up to 2 kittens dead in this thread alone.
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Kijo Rikki
Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees
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Posted - 2010.01.14 18:18:00 -
[13]
So much for reading comprehension (on my part)
I guess I need ta tall ya'll I usually fly in 3-4 man frig/destroyer gangs in FW, see heavy Amarr resistance and I haven't really ran into any other ECM pilots in my short time there. (2 weeks)
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dtyk
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Posted - 2010.01.14 18:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kijo Rikki So much for reading comprehension (on my part)
I guess I need ta tall ya'll I usually fly in 3-4 man frig/destroyer gangs in FW, see heavy Amarr resistance and I haven't really ran into any other ECM pilots in my short time there. (2 weeks)
Then fit Amarr racials...
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.14 20:28:00 -
[15]
I fly a Scorpion. Max ECM skills.
For small gangs I fly with 4 racials, 2 multispecs. So much variance and the multispecs means if I run into an all-Amarr group or something, I'll have something more to hit with other than one or two racials.
For fleets I generally fly 6 racials, one of each and the other two varying depending on what the FOTM is. There's no shortage of targets and I can get the max effectiveness out of all of my modules.
When you start targeting battleships and recons, the sensor strength is too high to really use multispecs effectively; you have to start doubling up jammers on a single target to make sure they remain shutdown.
In short, use racials whenever possible. Use multispecs if you're short on midslots and can't risk having the wrong jammer.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.14 21:12:00 -
[16]
This fit might be considered a lolfit, but it has worked well for me.
[Scorpion, Basic] 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I 'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I 'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM 'Umbra' I White Noise ECM 'Umbra' I White Noise ECM
Large 'Vehemence' I Shockwave Charge Large 'Vehemence' I Shockwave Charge Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Large Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Large Particle Dispersion Projector I Large Particle Dispersion Projector I
Bouncer II x3
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Kijo Rikki
Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees
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Posted - 2010.01.14 21:38:00 -
[17]
Well, so I'm sitting here mullnig this topic trying to figure out how the math just doesnt add up to my exprience ingame.
....then I remembered my griffin was fully rigged for extra jamming strength, and my blackbird was not (in fact my blackbird has 4 jammers and an MWD and a DCII and thats IT!
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.14 21:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander This fit might be considered a lolfit, but it has worked well for me.
[Scorpion, Basic] 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I 'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I 'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM 'Umbra' I White Noise ECM 'Umbra' I White Noise ECM
Large 'Vehemence' I Shockwave Charge Large 'Vehemence' I Shockwave Charge Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Large Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Large Particle Dispersion Projector I Large Particle Dispersion Projector I
Bouncer II x3
I'm not going to LOL just yet, because I have no idea what you're using this for. But it's really heavy on ECM. Like, too heavy. There's no defense; if you miss your jam cycle you're gonna be SOL.
I normally don't say much on the high slots since the weapons loadout is entirely situtational. Your ECM is your primary weapon, whatever goes up top depends entirely on what you're using it for. that being said, that's a lot of close range weaponry and no point.
If you're just doing general PvP or wormholes (and have someone else tackling for you), here's what I'd fit:
[Scorpion, PvP/Wormholes] Signal Distortion Amplifier II Signal Distortion Amplifier II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II ECM - Phase Inverter II ECM - Ion Field Projector II ECM - White Noise Generator II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Large YF-12a Smartbomb Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Feel free to substitute T2 for Meta 4 where applicable. Cruise launchers I use whatever's cheap, since I'm not getting a bonus to them anyways. Smartbombs are good for brushing off drones, and RR or RR drones are good to have since you're mostly support anyways. Bring a probe launcher if you're going hole diving. =P
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.01.14 22:33:00 -
[19]
I fully endorse the use of multi-Specs and only multi-Specs.
If you are an ECM pilot you should never use racials as mulit's are way more efficient at perma-jamming anything they run across.
please only PvP with Multi-Specs...its good for Eve
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Sashi Romanova
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Posted - 2010.01.14 23:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Meeko Atari I fully endorse the use of multi-Specs and only multi-Specs.
If you are an ECM pilot you should never use racials as mulit's are way more efficient at perma-jamming anything they run across.
please only PvP with Multi-Specs...its good for Eve
thats 3 kittens dead. you guys are sadists. how can you let poor, defenseless little kittens be strangled to death in this manner. this was all preventable, you see.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.15 04:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Regat Kozovv I'm not going to LOL just yet, because I have no idea what you're using this for. But it's really heavy on ECM. Like, too heavy. There's no defense; if you miss your jam cycle you're gonna be SOL.
My ECM and range is my defense, though a friendly rep is always appreciated. Mind you it makes my corp mates nervous when I'm sitting there with no shield (I warp out once I hit mid armor). We've mostly been facing 3 to 4 ships tops.
The smartbombs are handy on those pesky scout drones with seemingly infinite range (I haven't faced sentries yet). The neuts for interceptors or anything else that gets too close.
I recently messed-up and warped into a bubble with a Drake, Megathron, and a Curse, and was able to jam them all and neut them all as I slow-boated out and warped away. Got out with 90% structure, mostly lost to drones.
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Lexa Hellfury
Incura
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Posted - 2010.01.15 04:49:00 -
[22]
Every fit in this thread sucks lol --------------------------------------------------------------------
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Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.01.15 05:35:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Empire Dweller on 15/01/2010 05:35:19 I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
I don't fit racials. I fit 4/5/6 multispecs. They're just as good
Even bakers dozen for me plz- and pics or it never happened
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Shade Millith
International House of PWNCakes Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2010.01.15 05:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Incipus 1 Matched race: 1.5+0.5+0.5+0.5 = 3.0 vs 4.0 ... Racials lose. 2 Matched race: 1.5+1.5+0.5+0.5 = 4.0 vs 4.0 ... Even. 3 Matched race: 1.5+1.5+1.5+0.5 = 5.0 vs 4.0 ... Racials win, by 25% 4 Matched race: 1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5 = 6.0 vs 4.0 ... Racials win, by 50%.
Basicly this, multies for single target, racials for multiple.
This being said....
ECM pilots, please go die (in game). I hate you. --------------------------------------------
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Salen Kane
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.15 10:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sashi Romanova
thats 3 kittens dead. you guys are sadists. how can you let poor, defenseless little kittens be strangled to death in this manner. this was all preventable, you see.
The kittens should have fitted racial ECM so they could get away from you. Do not try to pwn with the ship. You are only pwning yourself. Instead, realise that there is no ship, there is only you, pwning. |
Haxfar Portlaind
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Posted - 2010.01.15 10:19:00 -
[26]
I always fit racial, but only of i can get one of each... If more, i fit multi on the "extra", like 4xracial 1xmulti if less than 4 med slots is available if fit multi, as i don't want to risk having 3 off-racials...
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.15 10:33:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 15/01/2010 10:36:09 While I'm very much in the "fit racials" camp having 1-2 multis as a "you never know what you'll run into" isn't that bad, what if they bring a falcon which which you use your 2 Cald racials and then they also bring 2 ravens, then you're going to look stupid with your uber amarr racials.
So it really depends on your gang size, how many more ECM boats you have in your team and what kind of confrontations you tend to run into. It's also great as a "oh crap that intie got close and tackled me" situations but again it depends on your fit if you have room to fit 1, which is dictated by where/how you fight.
So, as an FC, the OP should realise that there's more situations than just one so there's probably more answers than just one but I agree on disliking the "spray and pray" full row of multispec method.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
W0wbagger
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Posted - 2010.01.15 21:00:00 -
[28]
(DG) Multi for solo, racial for gang, but intel and subsequent custom fits over all. If you know what you're fighting don't waste jammers on what "might" turn up.
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Athar Mu
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.15 21:23:00 -
[29]
I fit multi's on Griffin's and Kitsunes and maybe on Blackbirds (that's situational, depending on whether I know what I'm facing), on Falcons, Rooks and Scorps I fit a mixture of racial's and multi's. Usually 1 of each race and then multi's in the remaining slots.
Yes multi's aren't as effective but on a Kitsune when you are running around in a frigate gang, I don't want to have to look and think which racial is which I want to lock as fast as possible and just put something on that damn inty that always tries to tackle me. It's more laziness than anything else.
Talking of ECM ships, please can we get a 5th low on the Scorp and the shield/armour HP flipped around so Caldari have an armour tanker and Scorps can more effectively fielded in RR Armour BS gangs. Maybe lose 2 highs and 2 missile/turret hard points and gain 125m drone bay and bandwidth.
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Destroperuk
Auctoritas Fleet Auctoritas Empire
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Posted - 2010.01.16 02:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Athar Mu
Talking of ECM ships, please can we get a 5th low on the Scorp and the shield/armour HP flipped around so Caldari have an armour tanker and Scorps can more effectively fielded in RR Armour BS gangs. Maybe lose 2 highs and 2 missile/turret hard points and gain 125m drone bay and bandwidth.
I would murder a thousand kittens to get this change through.
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