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Scherezad
Hobgoblin Marketeers
73
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
It is important to acknowledge ones' errors and misjudgements. I feel I have communicated my position poorly and haven't done proper research on the topic before posting. In this I have detracted from the main post. I apologize for the intrusion, and hope that your conversation can continue smoothly and uninterrupted. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
294
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:... dealing with Holders that overstep their bounds.
I hope you are referring to Hanaya? |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
294
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
[Forum Fail] |
Mensha Khael Crow
House of Murder Aegis Militia
18
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Posted - 2012.06.23 21:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shaounee Huren wrote:If this is a matter, as Ms Hanaya submits, of local laws being broken then I would like to ask my esteemed Amarrian friend what should be done to the Amarrians in Matar space who run slave plantations under contracts awarded by the Joint Harvesting Corporation in systems such as Bakrik?
The amount of assumptions you are jumping in your question smells of thinly veiled propaganda.
Firstly we do not have access to the agreements with the Republic by which Joint harvesting awards those contracts. So I cannot say whether those plantations benefit from a differing status to other plantations.
1. If those plantations do by agreement with the Republic benefit from, for excample, being applied Amarrian instead of the Republic law even your laws are not being broken.
2. If those plantations are being run against written agreements with the Republic, then that is a contractual breach and on such we tend to share our Caldari allies dislike of. No matter the culprit.
3. If those plantations do not violate written agreements, but by some quirk still violate your laws I am certain there will be plenty enough of murderous tribals to enforce some part of those laws.
On 1. If by contract no laws are broken, then I would expect any society of some order to respect the fact. With Tribes I expect the need for security against bloodcrazed racists and oathbreakers.
On 2. If there is a contractual breach I would be interested to see proof so that holders of such low moral character can feel the displeasure of such failings at home as well.
On 3. I will show the Republic law as much respect and accordance as the Tribes have. And as much as you show to Amarrian law in our sovereignity. None. (Barring differing contractual obligations.)
Mensha Khael Crow |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
209
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 21:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Evelyn Meiyi wrote:... dealing with Holders that overstep their bounds. I hope you are referring to Hanaya? I am not a Holder, Lady Vitalia.
What overstepping do you feel Lord Hanaya has committed? He has legal authority within his own domain and foreigners are subject to it. We of the Kingdom are not like our brother and sisters in the Empire, who are obliged to follow the decrees of the Theology Council. Nor would it be prudent to ask the King Khanid II himself for a verdict. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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Ssakaa
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
194
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Posted - 2012.06.23 23:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mensha Khael Crow wrote:
3. If those plantations do not violate written agreements, but by some quirk still violate your laws I am certain there will be plenty enough of murderous tribals to enforce some part of those laws.
Quirks or not, Mr Crow, you're skimping details. Thus, for your very own pleasure, I offer the verbose book-before-bedtime addendum of Three.
Behold the J.H. convoy trudging to and fro all lined up for attention. Do you see it in your mind's eye? Right. So you'd likely think that these things would offer some nice scintillating explosions, but they don't so you'd be wrong. A bit of a let-down as they disintegrate and pirhouette slowly away from the scene in gold-hued bits and pieces of detritis. Fortunately for we murderous tribals, as you put it, why, we know full well that these slaves of yours are valuable commodities and are thus well protected inside their re-enforced cargo modules from the rigours of reclamation tribal style, such as we do it (and we do it very well indeed, thank you).
Emm, this now reminds me of a thing. One time we had a Concord 'watcher' close to the left and slightly above, a Republic Fleet copper to the right of us, almost parallel-ly. It was very neatly nuanced and synchronised metaphor of the status quo of Barkrik as a place, wayward as it is. I thought it interesting at the time. Maybe you do as well.
But back to the carnage. Sometimes we encourage the stronger of the released to beat their former guards absolutely bloody senseless before they are expelled with their religious paraphernalia and all that fictional guff straight out of the air-locks, as is only de rigeur for such occasions. One of my own Animataruu crew-men is a little over-zealous with all of this, Mr. Crow; I have had to half-heartedly reprimand him on more than eight ... nine occasions this year alone. But he is unrepentant so I ruffle his hair, promise him another raise and he forgives me. Love, sweet love, my paramour.
And before I forget. Why is JH transporting the occasional slave of Caldari ethnic origins? I'm no anthropologist, but ... well perhaps you can explain it all to Mr. Khross and his fellows. Prawnscape: Torment |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
341
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 00:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ssakaa wrote: And before I forget. Why is JH transporting the occasional slave of Caldari ethnic origins? I'm no anthropologist, but ... well perhaps you can explain it all to Mr. Khross and his fellows.
This is interesting. I trust you can verify these claims? ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon Honor Guard Recruitment Video ((OOC WHG PR Video)) |
Ssakaa
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
194
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 01:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:Ssakaa wrote: And before I forget. Why is JH transporting the occasional slave of Caldari ethnic origins? I'm no anthropologist, but ... well perhaps you can explain it all to Mr. Khross and his fellows.
This is interesting. I trust you can verify these claims?
Verifably. We've been at this business for a long time now and like to put all the pieces of the filthy jigsaw together, if we can. Our friends who handle the repatriation of those caught in the cross-fire would have more information for you but since the Caldari and Minmatar militias aren't seeing eye to eye, don't expect free info about this that or the other.
Brief details: Two Caldari of ethnic origin discovered. Two men, mid-thirties or so, were taken to safety on my own ship, where, as civilians, they were given aid as best as we could manage and then moved on away from a location. Health poor, malnourishment obvious, traumatised, you bet they were. The usual lamentable effects of Sarum's mob. 'God', clearly, didn't love them very much.
This was approximately six months back. Prawnscape: Torment |
Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 01:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
You do not think the Empire's slaves are only Minmatar, I hope. The system is much more egalitarian than that, with people from every modern nation - and some absorbed nations - including ethnic "true" Amarr. Nine Caldari were listed in this announcement. Eighteen crewmen who ejected from me - most of them Achur - were taken and "awarded" by some Imperial court into another's custody for unspecified crimes against the Empire - nevermind that the "rescue" was in Isendeldik, which is two jumps from Pator and nowhere near the Empire's border, and I had never entered Imperial space before that time.
Those are only two "minor" examples. Looking at a census, court records, or merchandise inventories can be enlightening. And do not forget the system is generational, and family trees branch out. |
Ssakaa
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
194
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 01:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kohiko Sun wrote:You do not think the Empire's slaves are only Minmatar, I hope.
There we go. Concise and clear enough.
Prawnscape: Torment |
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Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
210
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 07:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
This is an announcement of a specific punishment for a specific crime.
While the actions of Joint Harvest, the general ethnic make-up of slaves, and Ssakaa's blood-lust are all interesting in their own right, may I ask that those discussions be moved to a different thread?
I have made an addendum to the original post. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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Los Muertas
Mir'Mulnir Tribe
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 07:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:This is an announcement of a specific punishment for a specific crime.
While the actions of Joint Harvest, the general ethnic make-up of slaves, and Ssakaa's blood-lust are all interesting in their own right, may I ask that those discussions be moved to a different thread?
I have made an addendum to the original post.
So what you are saying, to all of the world, is that if your laws and sacred rites are broken everyone needs not only to hear about it in a nauseating announcement such as this, but if your people do the same exact thing... "its really not that important"? Well as you show such disdain for the rights of others and a lack of respect for others I will respond in kind. I am announcing today that I plan on devoting my time and effort to finding this "undisclosed location", burning it to the ground and rescuing those wrongfully held against their will by laws that have no respect for others.
If anyone has any information on the location of these holders and depots slave camps do be so good as to inform me. If any Caldari persons wish to help in the effort to liberate your kin sentenced to hard punishment forced upon them without even so much as having a single person of Caldari descent to speak for them, feel free to join me in this effort.
By the way when I find this location, and trust me I will, not a single Amarrian will be spared a bullet or the cruel touch of my crews hands from lowly slave master to the mistress herself. Thesis on Tribal Traditionalism |
Mensha Khael Crow
House of Murder Aegis Militia
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 08:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:This is an announcement of a specific punishment for a specific crime.
While the actions of Joint Harvest, the general ethnic make-up of slaves, and Ssakaa's blood-lust are all interesting in their own right, may I ask that those discussions be moved to a different thread?
I have made an addendum to the original post.
I do apologise for my part in the derailment of the discussion.
I hope we will be informed should the convicted be released to Kaalakiota authority. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
210
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 08:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Los Muertas wrote:So what you are saying, to all of the world, is that if your laws and sacred rites are broken everyone needs not only to hear about it in a nauseating announcement such as this, but if your people do the same exact thing... "its really not that important"? Typically, one uses quotation marks when one is actually quoting someone.
I do think it's an important matter, but I don't believe it's relevant to this thread. Nor am I certain why you think employees of Joint Harvest qualify as 'my people.'
Quote:Well as you show such disdain for the rights of others and a lack of respect for others I will respond in kind. I am announcing today that I plan on devoting my time and effort to finding this "undisclosed location", burning it to the ground and rescuing those wrongfully held against their will by laws that have no respect for others.
If anyone has any information on the location of these holders and depots slave camps do be so good as to inform me. If any Caldari persons wish to help in the effort to liberate your kin sentenced to hard punishment forced upon them without even so much as having a single person of Caldari descent to speak for them, feel free to join me in this effort.
By the way when I find this location, and trust me I will, not a single Amarrian will be spared a bullet or the cruel touch of my crews hands from lowly slave master to the mistress herself. I question the wisdom of destroying a penal colony and freeing all the prisoners.
But given that you think Amarrians would be employed as wardens, I'm not worried about you finding it at all.
Edit: Wait - am I 'the mistress herself?' I don't spend my time hanging around prison planets. You're far more likely to find me in Jita or Hek. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
341
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 10:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ssakaa,
Thank you.
It seems I have an appointment to make. ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon Honor Guard Recruitment Video ((OOC WHG PR Video)) |
Ssakaa
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
194
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 11:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:Ssakaa,
Thank you.
It seems I have an appointment to make.
You're very welcome.
One more final detail. One of your rescued compatriots now resides in Stillwater where he leads a full life and I do trust a happy one. I am sorry the other cannot be traced accurately. My zealous crewman had this to say, not ten minutes ago, whilst he explored the dim, but egalitarian, corridors of his honest mind:
"See, I don' be 'aving any truck with no Caldari militias, but them folks were treated proper savage, like. And don' you be thinkin' I 'specially singled out them foreigners wi' my kinder nature. No, it's all a cryin' tapestry (sic: travesty) an' that's all there is to it."
So, not good with speeches, but Los Muertas, you may borrow him for your campaign. I would like him back in one piece, please.
Prawnscape: Torment |
Kel hound
Traveler 52 D-Collective
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 00:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Blasphamy is a victimless crime. Don't believe me? allow me to explain.
Quote:The allegations are as follows: Diskos Udani did willfully and with full knowledge of his crime, procure a blasphemous item of Galletean make and bring it into the holy Kingdom of Khanid. This item was a holoreel that showed an individual of indeterminate gender as the GÇÿEmpressGÇÖ who performed crude and unnatural sexual acts with her GÇÿPrivate Council.GÇÖ Diskos Udani rented out this holoreel along with others of a pornographic nature to several individuals.
The crime described here is not indeed blasphemy but rather defamation of character. The charge of blasphemy was likely chosen due to its harsher punishment (see: death penalty) and because any just court would conclude, upon viewing the evidence, that the charge does not hold up.
The description of the erotic movie was vague but I believe I managed to track down a copy which I have since viewed. Had you also viewed it you may have noticed the legal disclaimer at the start of the video. In case you didn't allow me to quote.
"All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental."
The film depicts a empress, not THE empress. Indeed, the film is stated to take place around 2000 years in the past and even then mentions and references to the Amarr empire are kept vague at best. As for the "crude and unnatural sexual acts" it was little more than standard penetration, a selection of sex positions I myself would barely call adventurous and 2 scenes with glass anal beads. Even by Amarr standards I would hardly call the aforementioned sex acts "crude" and certainly not "unnatural". Indeed, the only thing that makes it remotely note-worthy as far as pornography is concerned is that it depicts "a" empress engaging in sexual acts with her council.
You know, even though you executed an innocent man, I could care less. Your laws are what they are and ordinarily I would not care to poke my nose into its operation. But the fact that you felt the need to post this crime and punishment bullcrap in a public forum irks me somewhat. Exactly what are the other 15 people guilty of? ************? fornication? is it illegal to pleasure ones self in the Khanid and Amarr empire now? |
Evelyn Meiyi
Meiyi Family Holdings
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kel hound wrote: Exactly what are the other 15 people guilty of? ************? fornication? is it illegal to pleasure ones self in the Khanid and Amarr empire now?
The remaining fifteen people purchased and viewed a product that is illegal under Amarrian law. The holoreel is considered indecent and blasphemous material, and Captain Hanaya was following the protocol that has been established to deal with such matters.
Please understand that we are not without sympathy or understanding. When the slaves I have been given prove that they understand the depth of the crime they committed, they will be released into the care of their corporation's leadership.
Blasphemy of this nature is a serious charge, and I do not doubt that we all wish this matter to be concluded as swiftly as possible. |
David Toviyah
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Empress Jamyl I is a brutally dictatorial harlot of unmatched depravity, unable to abide by her own traditions and an incarnation of the rotten morass that is the Amarr Empire.
Now what? |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
345
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
David Toviyah wrote:Empress Jamyl I is a brutally dictatorial harlot of unmatched depravity, unable to abide by her own traditions and an incarnation of the rotten morass that is the Amarr Empire.
Now what?
Ah, the battlefield of the pacifist. Words and instigation.
Surely you understand the irony of attempting to claim a moral high ground though pacifism while simultaneously attempting to instigate and provoke through judgmental language and insults? ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon Honor Guard Recruitment Video ((OOC WHG PR Video)) |
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David Toviyah
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 18:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
DonGÇÖt be upset, Khross, I have no such intention. As indicated by the last sentence, I merely am curious what will happen if I GÇ£insultGÇ¥ their Empress. Am I going to get death threats? Will the Amarrians here call for my execution?
Oh and by the way, I felt that my choice of words was rather appropriate and fitting. You disagree? |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
218
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 18:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
David Toviyah wrote:Empress Jamyl I is a brutally dictatorial harlot of unmatched depravity, unable to abide by her own traditions and an incarnation of the rotten morass that is the Amarr Empire.
Now what?
As you've apparently never heard of it at your university, let me link you to something: Jurisdiction.
I don't care if you spend your nights fornicating with goats under the full moon while praising whatever heathen gods have sprung from your own demented mind. I'm sure that's a regular Tuesday night in Caille. I simply want your filth kept away from the planetary and station-side population of the Kingdom. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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David Toviyah
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 18:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Oh, I can repeat the same words in Amarr if you want.
But be that as it may, why, pray tell, dear sister, do you believe that a fellow human being deserves to be murdered for speaking their mind? Or as in this case even less than that, for merely listening or watching another person expressing themselves? |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
218
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 19:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
David Toviyah wrote:Oh, I can repeat the same words in Amarr if you want. Mr. Tovivah, I have no legal authority in the Amarr Empire save that which local agents give me.
The Amarr Empire and the Khanid Kingdom are both nations with their own sovereignty. The Kingdom follows a neo-feudal model wherein Lords and Ladies, who are all Holders, maintain their own domain. All recognize the divine authority of our great King Khanid II, but many keep their own planetary and stationary police forces who are tasked with keeping order among the commoner population.
A group of people were reported by other commoners, arrested by the police, and I was tasked with rendering judgment under the authority of Lord Hanaya as this happened within the Hanaya clan holdings. One of them was then executed while the others will be held for three months on a penal colony.
Notice that I, the person who passed judgement, didn't charge them with wrong doing, arrest them, did not execute anyone, and am not their warden right now. That's how a functional legal system operates and how adults deal with issues of crime and punishment.
Let me illustrate how children would deal with crime and punishment. David: The Empress is a stupid-face! Makkal: No, she's not! David: Stupid-face, stupid-face. What are you gonna do about it? Makkal: I'm gonna shoot you!!
If that's the reaction from me you're fishing for, might I suggest you grow-up a bit? although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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David Toviyah
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 19:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Says the person who seems to support this behavior:
GÇ£BlasphemerGÇ¥: The Empress is a doodoo head! Makkal: DIE, HERETIC!!!
Or am I misunderstanding something here? |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
218
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 19:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
David Toviyah wrote:Says the person who seems to support this behavior:
GÇ£BlasphemerGÇ¥: The Empress is a doodoo head! Makkal: DIE, HERETIC!!!
Or am I misunderstanding something here? Let's see. You blasphemed in this thread, yet I have not suggested you should die. A group of Galleteans created and distributed this holoreel, yet I have not suggested they should die. Fifteen people watched the holoreel, and while it was in my power to sentence them to death, I did not do so.
Yes, I'd say you misunderstand a great deal. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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David Toviyah
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 21:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
???
Makkal Hanaya wrote:For this crime, Diskos Udani is sentenced to public execution at dawn tomorrow.
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Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
346
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 21:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
David Toviyah wrote:??? Makkal Hanaya wrote:For this crime, Diskos Udani is sentenced to public execution at dawn tomorrow.
You did not violate law in Empire/Kingdom space while under Imperial/Kingdom jurisdiction. You've merely spouted blasphemies in an attempt to incite a response. The aforementioned individual would have been well aware of the law and willingly and knowingly broke it, committing blasphemy (as defined by the law) for which the legal punishment is death while under Imperial/Kingdom jurisdiction. You don't have to like it.
David Toviyah wrote:Oh and by the way, I felt that my choice of words was rather appropriate and fitting. You disagree?
Yes, I disagree. You used a number of adjectives and descriptors in a slanderous way and profaned the character of the Empress simply because of your viewpoint.
~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon Honor Guard Recruitment Video ((OOC WHG PR Video)) |
Kel hound
Traveler 52 D-Collective
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 21:37:00 -
[59] - Quote
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:Kel hound wrote: Exactly what are the other 15 people guilty of? ************? fornication? is it illegal to pleasure ones self in the Khanid and Amarr empire now?
The remaining fifteen people purchased and viewed a product that is illegal under Amarrian law. The holoreel is considered indecent and blasphemous material, and Captain Hanaya was following the protocol that has been established to deal with such matters. Please understand that we are not without sympathy or understanding. When the slaves I have been given prove that they understand the depth of the crime they committed, they will be released into the care of their corporation's leadership. Blasphemy of this nature is a serious charge, and I do not doubt that we all wish this matter to be concluded as swiftly as possible.
It has been my experience that pain and humiliation will eventually make anyone say whatever you wish them to say. But Im sure your people will torture and humiliate them into submission with the uttermost sympathy and understanding.
As for the alleged "serious charge" of defamation of character all I have to say is "yawn". Typical Amarrian behaviour to bully into submission those who do not share proper "reverence" for the Amarrian faith. Or in other words more bullying by Amarr zealots who continue to believe that faith is a virtue.
Out of curiosity, exactly how were these 15 found out? I assume they were not "entertaining" themselves with the material in public so how were they prosecuted? Black bags over their heads in the middle of the night? Taken from their beds? Shoved before a judge and informed of their "guilt"?
Honestly the only thing that irritates me more than the Amarrian "faith" in their capsuler queen is their need to brag about their "justice" in public forums.
PS: Im currently staying in Fora Imperial Academy at the moment if anyone wishes to join me for a private screening of the aforementioned "blasphemy" aboard my ship latter tonight. Free admission. BYO food/drinks. Your move zealot. |
David Toviyah
University of Caille Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 21:57:00 -
[60] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:You don't have to like it. Well, I was asking Makkal whether she likes it. |
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