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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:38:00 -
[2611] - Quote
Ariel Marquette wrote: Friend, you do realize you're addressing a Goon, right? Character has never been their strong suit.
Oh, they're characters, all right. That's what makes this such a wonderful opportunity. It's rare that a major alliance gets *this* pissy with CCP, but goons have managed to do it twice in a few months!
To the tune of Rawhide!: Trollin trollin trollin, get them posters trollin, goonswarm!
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Holander Switzerland
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:38:00 -
[2612] - Quote
Richter Enderas wrote:I've never seen goons act like such giant publords before.
Hey are you the guy what with is upset he can't say the n-word on fleet comms anymore?
this guy http://soundcloud.com/bonuscan/massive_rant
Edit: found this one too http://soundcloud.com/user3885713/20-more-minutes-of-sperging |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:39:00 -
[2613] - Quote
It's better to do it with music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Ad1AuHriI
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
949
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:40:00 -
[2614] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Man, only here would they have the hubris to argue the GMs are wrong and they are right. If CCP gives in to them its pretty much over lol They will OFFICIALLY have lost control
If they do an investigation, and find that the 5 Goon Heroes that did this did not exploit any flaws in the game, and thus are pretty much honor bound to give the assets back... then it's not really "losing control". It's "doing what's right."
Oh, sorry, I forgot. Screwing Goons is always "what's right", even if it damages EVE. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1452
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:41:00 -
[2615] - Quote
Aww Sreegs... Don't leave already... |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:41:00 -
[2616] - Quote
Xython wrote: Screwing Goons is always "what's right", even if it damages EVE.
Mostly because those two things are, generally speaking, mutually exclusive.
and, did I just hear a goon whine about 'what's right?' Excuse me if I find that ******* hilarious.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:41:00 -
[2617] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened.
Proof positive the test server is there to hope exploits make it into game
Which made it totally ok to abuse. Right? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Danfen Fenix
Council Of Internal War The Paganism Alliance
114
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:43:00 -
[2618] - Quote
Xython wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Man, only here would they have the hubris to argue the GMs are wrong and they are right. If CCP gives in to them its pretty much over lol They will OFFICIALLY have lost control If they do an investigation, and find that the 5 Goon Heroes that did this did not exploit any flaws in the game, and thus are pretty much honor bound to give the assets back... then it's not really "losing control". It's "doing what's right." Oh, sorry, I forgot. Screwing Goons is always "what's right", even if it damages EVE.
Last I checked, I thought the community pretty much thought goons had CCP in their back pockets?
What happened? Something not go your way, so suddenly everyones out to get you ? |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
475
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:44:00 -
[2619] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Maggie Maggie wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Comparing removing the manipulated assets of a small number of people to a complete redesign of the game may just win the prize. Hear me out. While I am a goon and of course I do feel that a member of my tribe is under attack, I'm speaking as a player. EVE has always been an open sandbox where players are allowed and encouraged to do things that materially affect the game. That is the one thing that sets EVE apart from every other MMO. There are other spaceship games. There are other games with a functioning market. There are other games where clever players do better than dumb people. EVE has always been an open sandbox. If a player is afraid to experiment and push the game in new directions for fear that, should they win too big, they will lose everything, then that is not an open sandbox. EVE has always been an open sandbox. If that is no longer the case, that constitues a complete redesign. Please don't take that first step. I like the game how it is. When do we get to the part where we stop pretending that a gap in the timing of value calculation (programming) wasn't what was being taken advantage of here? This wasn't just market manipulation it was taking advantage of a flaw in the code.
I should note that because of the way that the estimated price was calculated - a three month running average - that even if that timing value had run daily, our particular item would have maintained its price, as the volume before and after we bought & sold it to adjust the price would have remained consistent. On any given day up to 90 days after the fact, it would have looked back and said "yep, X units sold, and whoa, 1/2X of those were sold at a really high price, so I guess that makes the average (a really big number)"
Assuming we're right about it's mechanism, of course. CCP no longer respects its sandbox. Thanks, Sony. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:45:00 -
[2620] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:but don't forget, it's all actually their virtual stuff on their servers.
stuff that goons decided to screw with for the lulz (edit: i'm sorry, to screw with for the betterment of mankind. the trillions of stuff in their assets window was just... well lets not worry about that right?)
it wouldn't be uncalled for for them to freeze every account related to this until they figured out the best way to reverse the snafu your buddies caused
playing the victim just doesn't work for you, though it's delicious to watch Edit: To be clear, you are essentially right. The damage needed fixing, period. In my opinion, what CCP should have done was: 1. Freeze all the accounts with a 7-day suspension. 2. IMMEDIATELY send e-mails to all of the players affected saying something like: "Hey guys, What you did was pretty creative and lots of us think it was cool. Furthermore, we owe you a thank you for coming clean about it. Nevertheless it was a clear design flaw and we can't allow this scale of damage to the economy to remain. Because of that we're locking your accounts for investigation and we plan to remove most of the ISK/assets gained through this infinite loop. Our goal here isn't to punish you but to remove the majority of the damage that would have been caused. Until our investigation is finished the accounts will have to remain locked but we'll compensate you for the account time." 3. Immediately post the same thing on the forums in press-release form. 4. Have PR flunkies saying the same thing to the press. No one really is disputing that they do need to fix the economic damage, but they are going about it hamfistedly, with poor public communication, conflicting statements (Xhagen and Manifest talking to the press.)
TOTALLY doesnt sound like CCP at all. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1412
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:45:00 -
[2621] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:sort of like finding out your sandbox has razor blades hidden in the sand
This is called Karma. Karma is a **tch. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
949
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:51:00 -
[2622] - Quote
Danfen Fenix wrote:Xython wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Man, only here would they have the hubris to argue the GMs are wrong and they are right. If CCP gives in to them its pretty much over lol They will OFFICIALLY have lost control If they do an investigation, and find that the 5 Goon Heroes that did this did not exploit any flaws in the game, and thus are pretty much honor bound to give the assets back... then it's not really "losing control". It's "doing what's right." Oh, sorry, I forgot. Screwing Goons is always "what's right", even if it damages EVE. Last I checked, I thought the community pretty much thought goons had CCP in their back pockets? What happened? Something not go your way, so suddenly everyones out to get you ?
CCP is in Goon pockets whenever CCP does something that people don't like.
CCP is the noble hero saving everyone from the evil Goons whenever CCP does somethign that people do like.
Goons are Goons either way. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:51:00 -
[2623] - Quote
Ariel Marquette wrote:I am somewhat confused by some of the Goons' commentary here. They are repeatedly claiming that:
1) The game design / mechanics were used as intended. 2) It's not their fault if they thought about how it could be used this way and CCP didn't.
If point 2 is true, then how could point 1 possibly be true? CCP couldn't have intended for the design to be used in this way if they hadn't thought about it being used in this way.
Like it or not, CCP's designated employees are the arbiters of how their property may be used. They are well within their rights to do whatever they please to whomever they please within their game world, whether that seems completely arbitrary or not.
I applaud CCP's efforts to put some real thought into dealing with this situation. As a non-Goon, my solution would have simply been to start throwing Goons out of the game, given that they are so intent on ruining it for as many other people as possible. CCP's restraint is admirable.
I just think its funny how they are so arrogant here they think they can fight this and win when if the rest of us fight back (on the forums not in the game - woo shooting statues) we tend to be violating all manner of spam rules and locking threads etc. Goons have been on the recieving end of this. Remember the open letter to CCP and all during T20 where the forums were actually taken down to stop the threads that were being created?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:52:00 -
[2624] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: What we do with individuals is never a public matter. It never was and it never will be. The public communication will focus on what's been done to the group and the overall impact. I won't deny that nobody should have been speaking to the press and that that has been managed poorly.
Um, Sreegs, that's not quite accurate. I hate to sound like I'm defending these idiots, but CCP has, in the past, made some very public examples on occasion.
Yeah and you can say his name on the forums now
kugutsumen
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Tolokar
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:53:00 -
[2625] - Quote
My question is why is Sreegs or CCP putting up with this? Why isn't this thread locked? Let the investigation occur and be done with it. If you know you didn't exploit or do something illegal you have nothing to worry about. If you did ... Well the. F*ck you and you got what you deserve for being scumbags. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:54:00 -
[2626] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You'll have to ask the people who deploy things that. My job is to clean up afterwards.
Man that sounds like it sucks.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:54:00 -
[2627] - Quote
Xython wrote:
CCP is in Goon pockets whenever CCP does something that people don't like.
CCP is the noble hero saving everyone from the evil Goons whenever CCP does somethign that people do like.
Goons are Goons either way.
Minor detail, you left out 'and that absurdly profits goons' on the first one.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1414
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:54:00 -
[2628] - Quote
Maggie Maggie wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:This is called Karma. Karma is a **tch. There's no such thing. Next thing you'll be saying you believe in elves.
Considering I play a Dark Elvess Sorceress in another PvP MMO...
Edit: proof. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Mishraile Viliana
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:55:00 -
[2629] - Quote
Xython wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Just because a door is open, does not automatically mean that you should walk in. I work at a Casino as a Slot Technician. I repair the slot machines that people waste away college funds on. If they malfunction -- a CODE ERROR -- and pay out a jackpot they're not supposed to, then that's on the player. They get nothing. If they are misconfigured -- a DESIGN ERROR -- and they pay out more over time than they are supposed to, that's on us. The player gets everything (although we shut the machine down and swap it out). The problem here is that this whole thing revolves around a design error. And traditionally, and ethically, CCP can't really nail someone for a design error. That's on them, unfortunately. Now, what I really would like to do but haven't been able to do is as Aryth and Mynnna for a post-mortem on all this. "How could CCP have designed this feature better, preventing this kind of manipulation, while retaining the same general feel." My incomplete knowledge of the whole thing would lead me to think that perhaps they should have had a flag set that noticed when the value of a particular item was jumping by X number of percent in a Y days, which would have prevented the market manipulation of prices that lead to the ISK/LP conversion factor hitting 81 isk/lp. But that's just me, I don't know the full specifics of the mechanic. The way I read the OP is that that they found a way to generate massive amounts of LP, that CCP put a fix that seemed to solve it (discounting dropped items from the calculation) and then they went out of their way to set it up again.
In your comparison that would be. You misconfigure a machine and some clients benefit from it, you find out label it as out of commision while waiting a few days for a replacement to arrive. Just imagine a reason you cannot simple pull that machine out or turn it of and then tell me what you will do with people that play on it while you are waiting for a replacement to get there? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:56:00 -
[2630] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:There are people coding what their design leader tells them to. There's this guy on top checking everything goes accordingly to stated plan There's a test server There are bug hunters There is players feedback (hohoho) Then you decide to implement "stuff" Players play the content you give them under the form you've decided to release despite all steps above. Then it's players fault because they play the game and should be penalised because steps above failed? What the heck? Nobody has been penalized so theyre LYING about the 5 trillion. Ah do they get banned now for rumor mongering as per the OTHER part of that new rule? If they did it wouldn't be any of your business.
Theyd also dissapear in the thread (which they havent, so Im assuming theyre not lying (for once) which might mean that someone else lied. I cant say who though, its against the rules
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:58:00 -
[2631] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Considering I play a Dark Elvess Sorceress in another PvP MMO... Edit: proof.
As a former high elf swordie, I hate your guts. PoS is a *****.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
309
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:00:00 -
[2632] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. Proof positive the test server is there to hope exploits make it into game Which made it totally ok to abuse. Right?
No it doesn't, just clearly shows THIS is a waste of time.
Hybrids revamp, gallente revamp, inventory, just a few examples of worthless time spent giving feedback. brb |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:01:00 -
[2633] - Quote
Xython wrote:
I work at a Casino as a Slot Technician. I repair the slot machines that people waste away college funds on.
If they malfunction -- a CODE ERROR -- and pay out a jackpot they're not supposed to, then that's on the player. They get nothing.
If they are misconfigured -- a DESIGN ERROR -- and they pay out more over time than they are supposed to, that's on us. The player gets everything (although we shut the machine down and swap it out).
The problem here is that this whole thing revolves around a design error. And traditionally, and ethically, CCP can't really nail someone for a design error. That's on them, unfortunately.
I also worked at a Casino, Xy, and I can say that we had that exact situation. I can also say that, we didn't pay out on the design error either, as well as firing the employees involved.
(And, yes, they tried to sue, no, they didn't win. Nice thing about being a Native American casino, under the right circumstances, it has to go to tribal court, where outside lawyers can get you in contempt, easy.)
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:02:00 -
[2634] - Quote
Richter Enderas wrote:I've never seen goons act like such giant publords before.
The last time I remember this was the last time I said a few posts back. When the volume of new threads required the forums to be taken down after the open letter and T20 http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:04:00 -
[2635] - Quote
Holander Switzerland wrote:Actually yeah this is a good point, if people were warning them about this before it left sisi, isn't that pretty much consent for whatever was in the patch.
actually but here is where you are wrong. CCP has always said, always ask before you do something that you are not sure if you are gonna be punished or not. I am here for many years and I must admit i came very close myself of abusing something. If its not cos I asked before, I would have been banned. If in doubt, always ask CCP is the modo! |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:04:00 -
[2636] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: The last time I remember this was the last time I said a few posts back. When the volume of new threads required the forums to be taken down after the open letter and T20
I was thinking Mittens brush with permaban and arrest, myself.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
475
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:05:00 -
[2637] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Tallon Sylph wrote:AureoBroker wrote:Dear goons; again. This is an exploit, that is a completely unintented use of game mechanics.
We didn't intend for this game mechanic to work in the way that we designed it to work even though people repeatedly told us it was dumb. I can state 100% that we did not intend the mechanic to function this way.
You didn't intend for mass insurance fraud (which injected new isk into the economy), pax amarria (which was infinitely available and became profitable to refine for its nocxium, thus depressing the price of nocxium to this day), or PI (enriching many players who bought off of NPC sells prior to their removal) to function the way they did, either, and yet people who took advantage of those things were not punished. You sort of see why many people see this as a massive change in precedent, right? CCP no longer respects its sandbox. Thanks, Sony. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
296
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:06:00 -
[2638] - Quote
Posting in a thread...
Also....................HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABAHAHAHAHAHABAHAHAHA.
Currently finding it comical that goons pride themselves on ruining other peoples game. But, give the most delicious of tears when someone (in this case CCP) ruins theirs! Do you know what a sh*t-barometer is? It measures the sh*t-pressure in the air, did you hear that? The sounds of the whispering winds of sh*t... |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:06:00 -
[2639] - Quote
Andrea Roche wrote:I am here for many years and I must admit i came very close myself of abusing something. If its not cos I asked before, I would have been banned. If in doubt, always ask CCP is the modo!
I was once told by CCP that I had to stop using a certain fitting, because it was too powerful at that time. (Seems it would have let me tank concord)
So, yeah, does not matter if you can, you should always ask 'Should I?'
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
470
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:07:00 -
[2640] - Quote
Danfen Fenix wrote:Xython wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Man, only here would they have the hubris to argue the GMs are wrong and they are right. If CCP gives in to them its pretty much over lol They will OFFICIALLY have lost control If they do an investigation, and find that the 5 Goon Heroes that did this did not exploit any flaws in the game, and thus are pretty much honor bound to give the assets back... then it's not really "losing control". It's "doing what's right." Oh, sorry, I forgot. Screwing Goons is always "what's right", even if it damages EVE. Last I checked, I thought the community pretty much thought goons had CCP in their back pockets? What happened? Something not go your way, so suddenly everyones out to get you ?
Everyone was out to get us when they thought we had CCP in our pockets. We didn't start that rumor. Now that CCP is coming down on some guys in CFC, the community is smugging over having themselves proven wrong. I don't get it. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
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