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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:41:00 -
[2491] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened.
Shocking. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
103
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:42:00 -
[2492] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Or not anymore apparently
Yeah, still. After all, if they didn't, what are all these goon tears that are up to our ankles about then?
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
190
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:42:00 -
[2493] - Quote
Andrea Roche wrote:Tomytronic wrote:Andrea Roche wrote:i love this goon raging thread. Its most helerious for an alliance that is suppose to "collect much tears". My questions is when they say this, do they mean someone elses or theirs, cos this thread has so much of it that its turning into an ocean. Are you going to apologise? apologise for what? Its you goons thats crying not us. Apologise for your use of highly inappropriate and offensive language when referring to an internet spaceship game. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1627
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:43:00 -
[2494] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: That was the only reason timing was mentioned. The amount of time it takes to calculate means that the manipulated prices stick around a lot longer. I'm not going to pretend to be a financial wizard or anything but in looking at the issue that is something we have to consider.
Well, they stick around a lot longer without you needing to re-spoof the price. But if I want to abuse the z0r Kazanir mentioned, it's not hard to take some time out of my busy schedule of blowing up scads of them to sell another 1000 to myself at hideously inflated prices. I mean I'm blowing them up all day, I can easily keep the transactions going to keep the price inflated.
Certainly but I can only refer to the system that actually exists today. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
145
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:43:00 -
[2495] - Quote
Tomytronic wrote:It sounds like Sreegs is being given the task of defending others' bad design implementations. Which is a pretty strange remit to have for his job title.
Does this count as that new rule about getting permabanned for attacking CCP yet? They were pretty vague on the specifics of that rule too
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
38
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:44:00 -
[2496] - Quote
Sreegs and goons are BOTH right.
Sreegs, this isn't, and won't be, the last time someone has... used the coding for unintended purposes (See: CONCORD aggression changes)
Goons, This may be what they have been.. intending to do with the code, but... not the spirit of it, if that makes sense.
The good that comes out of all of this, is that the issue is dealt with BEFORE a massive economic collapse in EVE happens. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:44:00 -
[2497] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Tomytronic wrote:It sounds like Sreegs is being given the task of defending others' bad design implementations. Which is a pretty strange remit to have for his job title. Does this count as that new rule about getting permabanned for attacking CCP yet? They were pretty vague on the specifics of that rule too
I heard CCP staff smell of elderberries.
c/d |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
220
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:44:00 -
[2498] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round
Good edit, thanks. |
Kazanir
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
395
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:45:00 -
[2499] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:but don't forget, it's all actually their virtual stuff on their servers.
stuff that goons decided to screw with for the lulz (edit: i'm sorry, to screw with for the betterment of mankind. the trillions of stuff in their assets window was just... well lets not worry about that right?)
it wouldn't be uncalled for for them to freeze every account related to this until they figured out the best way to reverse the snafu your buddies caused
playing the victim just doesn't work for you, though it's delicious to watch
In my opinion, what CCP should have done was:
1. Freeze all the accounts with a 7-day suspension. 2. IMMEDIATELY send e-mails to all of the players affected saying something like:
"Hey guys,
What you did was pretty creative and lots of us think it was cool. Furthermore, we owe you a thank you for coming clean about it. Nevertheless it was a clear design flaw and we can't allow this scale of damage to the economy to remain.
Because of that we're locking your accounts for investigation and we plan to remove most of the ISK/assets gained through this infinite loop. Our goal here isn't to punish you but to remove the majority of the damage that would have been caused. Until our investigation is finished the accounts will have to remain locked but we'll compensate you for the account time."
3. Immediately post the same thing on the forums in press-release form. 4. Have PR flunkies saying the same thing to the press.
No one really is disputing that they do need to fix the economic damage, but they are going about it hamfistedly, with poor public communication, conflicting statements (Xhagen and Manifest talking to the press.) |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
145
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:45:00 -
[2500] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Tomytronic wrote:I say your hyperbole is offensive to actual victims of ****. This isn't 'helarious'. No, it's hilarious, because it's been a long time since I needed a 5 gallon bucket to gather up all these goon tears. It's like that scene in Alice in Wonderland where Alice cries an ocean.
check out my sig. Wonder how many steaks could be seasoned with these tears? Also; 5 trillion vs effectively infinite moon goo funds and they think they have the right to cry? Entitlement much?
Suck it up and move on
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
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Holander Switzerland
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:45:00 -
[2501] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Nobody has been penalized
CCP Sreegs wrote: That is between us and Aryth. We've also stated that it was a temporary measure thus far. The hyperbole in this thread is pretty damn hilarious though. Comparing removing the manipulated assets of a small number of people to a complete redesign of the game may just win the prize.
Aryth wrote:Popping in. Will be out of pocket rest of day. I was hoping to have seen a Dev Blog by now but no dice.
Status for me right now: 1.2T in hard assets taken at least. Possibly more. I would need to go and put a hard value on all the BPC's seized. This was mixed in with my own stuff, I didn't keep separate stacks. 1.7B in LP zeroed out. Yes, that is a B.
So even if you value LP at 1k isk each, when it's 2k if you cashed it in properly, I am out about 3T since last night. No word yet from CCP. Going to wait to see what the statement says, this is pretty surprising to me as we feel this is all legitimate gameplay and they seem to be reflecting that in their press releases. So I don't want to speculate too much right now on their thought process. It's a black box right now.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1627
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:45:00 -
[2502] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened.
I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone.
That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
109
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:45:00 -
[2503] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Or not anymore apparently
Yeah, still. After all, if they didn't, what are all these goon tears that are up to our ankles about then?
its gone past that....i have had to learn how to swim in a very short time. Granted i am doing doggy stile to stay afloat. Looking for a land atm! Wish me luck!
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Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
110
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:46:00 -
[2504] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone. That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it.
So why do you deploy stuff before fixing it then blame the players and/or break the game? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
146
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:47:00 -
[2505] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:There are people coding what their design leader tells them to. There's this guy on top checking everything goes accordingly to stated plan There's a test server There are bug hunters There is players feedback (hohoho) Then you decide to implement "stuff" Players play the content you give them under the form you've decided to release despite all steps above. Then it's players fault because they play the game and should be penalised because steps above failed? What the heck? Nobody has been penalized
so theyre LYING about the 5 trillion. Ah do they get banned now for rumor mongering as per the OTHER part of that new rule? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
214
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:47:00 -
[2506] - Quote
Istyn wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone. That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it. So why do you deploy stuff before fixing it then blame the players?
Why can't people do everything perfect the first time?
I always do. even my post edits were planned in the first draft
edit: ccp has clearly failed and the game is now over for not sending goons enough emails to explain they were fixing the thing goons just spent 60 pages on eve-o gloating about |
Kazanir
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
397
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:48:00 -
[2507] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone. That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it.
I'm aware of this; what I'm saying I have secondhand from Aryth, I don't know to whom he tried to speak or where he posted, maybe he'll clarify later. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
146
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:48:00 -
[2508] - Quote
Tomytronic wrote:Andrea Roche wrote:Tomytronic wrote:Andrea Roche wrote:I think this is far worst than the word "exploit". The word "exploit" is far too weak or linient of a word to use. I say goons "raped" the market and now are claiming no fault. This to me is helarious. Take all their isk and assets away CCP and send a message out that the gloves are off for anyone trying to do the same!! I say your hyperbole is offensive to actual victims of ****. This isn't 'helarious'. it does not imply the meaning you intend to put. I specifically said "the market"! Dont try to make this into something else.... If you intend to use such inappropriate language to describe the actions of people in an internet spaceships game, then you should possibly sit back and reflect on your communication skills. I think you should retract your word, apologise and make your point again using different language that does not offend, nor hyperbolise.
like all those words used as adjectives that are racial slurs versus the Jewish people? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:48:00 -
[2509] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote: Why can't people do everything perfect the first time?
I always do. even my post edits were planned in the first draft
Damn right.
edit: totally typo'd. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1629
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:48:00 -
[2510] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:but don't forget, it's all actually their virtual stuff on their servers.
stuff that goons decided to screw with for the lulz (edit: i'm sorry, to screw with for the betterment of mankind. the trillions of stuff in their assets window was just... well lets not worry about that right?)
it wouldn't be uncalled for for them to freeze every account related to this until they figured out the best way to reverse the snafu your buddies caused
playing the victim just doesn't work for you, though it's delicious to watch Edit: To be clear, you are essentially right. The damage needed fixing, period. In my opinion, what CCP should have done was: 1. Freeze all the accounts with a 7-day suspension. 2. IMMEDIATELY send e-mails to all of the players affected saying something like: "Hey guys, What you did was pretty creative and lots of us think it was cool. Furthermore, we owe you a thank you for coming clean about it. Nevertheless it was a clear design flaw and we can't allow this scale of damage to the economy to remain. Because of that we're locking your accounts for investigation and we plan to remove most of the ISK/assets gained through this infinite loop. Our goal here isn't to punish you but to remove the majority of the damage that would have been caused. Until our investigation is finished the accounts will have to remain locked but we'll compensate you for the account time." 3. Immediately post the same thing on the forums in press-release form. 4. Have PR flunkies saying the same thing to the press. No one really is disputing that they do need to fix the economic damage, but they are going about it hamfistedly, with poor public communication, conflicting statements (Xhagen and Manifest talking to the press.)
What we do with individuals is never a public matter. It never was and it never will be. The public communication will focus on what's been done to the group and the overall impact. I won't deny that nobody should have been speaking to the press and that that has been managed poorly.
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Ariel Marquette
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:49:00 -
[2511] - Quote
I am somewhat confused by some of the Goons' commentary here. They are repeatedly claiming that:
1) The game design / mechanics were used as intended. 2) It's not their fault if they thought about how it could be used this way and CCP didn't.
If point 2 is true, then how could point 1 possibly be true? CCP couldn't have intended for the design to be used in this way if they hadn't thought about it being used in this way.
Like it or not, CCP's designated employees are the arbiters of how their property may be used. They are well within their rights to do whatever they please to whomever they please within their game world, whether that seems completely arbitrary or not.
I applaud CCP's efforts to put some real thought into dealing with this situation. As a non-Goon, my solution would have simply been to start throwing Goons out of the game, given that they are so intent on ruining it for as many other people as possible. CCP's restraint is admirable. |
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
38
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:49:00 -
[2512] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone. That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it.
Wait, if you knew of the problem and had a fix for it already, why did you NOT hotfix it? |
Benny Ohu
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
202
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:49:00 -
[2513] - Quote
Using the phrase "Goon tears" makes you pretty cool
Showing them what for
The fact that you're so eager to post it every page, well, |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
146
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:50:00 -
[2514] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Ravcharas wrote:That does not mean that whatever they decide to do is right, however. Rav, this is EvE Online. Right and wrong are something that happens to other games, as Mittens himself once said.
Eve is not meant to be fair
am I doin it right?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Maggie Maggie
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:50:00 -
[2515] - Quote
Tomytronic wrote:It sounds like Sreegs is being given the task of defending others' bad design implementations. Which is a pretty strange remit to have for his job title.
Probably started as a security red flag, some automated sweep saying "holy **** this account has a trillion ISK worth of implants in a can!". So now The Aeronaut is stuck with it.
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Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
110
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:50:00 -
[2516] - Quote
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone. That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it. Wait, if you knew of the problem and had a fix for it already, why did you NOT hotfix it?
Because game development is actually metrics development. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
105
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:51:00 -
[2517] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: What we do with individuals is never a public matter. It never was and it never will be. The public communication will focus on what's been done to the group and the overall impact. I won't deny that nobody should have been speaking to the press and that that has been managed poorly.
Um, Sreegs, that's not quite accurate. I hate to sound like I'm defending these idiots, but CCP has, in the past, made some very public examples on occasion.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
468
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:51:00 -
[2518] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
It is however funny to see when CCP rules against Goons they rage as hard as everyone else does
Only in this case it's Goons raging against CCP, whereas normally everyone rages at Goons. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1629
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:51:00 -
[2519] - Quote
Holander Switzerland wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Nobody has been penalized
CCP Sreegs wrote: That is between us and Aryth. We've also stated that it was a temporary measure thus far. The hyperbole in this thread is pretty damn hilarious though. Comparing removing the manipulated assets of a small number of people to a complete redesign of the game may just win the prize.
Aryth wrote:Popping in. Will be out of pocket rest of day. I was hoping to have seen a Dev Blog by now but no dice.
Status for me right now: 1.2T in hard assets taken at least. Possibly more. I would need to go and put a hard value on all the BPC's seized. This was mixed in with my own stuff, I didn't keep separate stacks. 1.7B in LP zeroed out. Yes, that is a B.
So even if you value LP at 1k isk each, when it's 2k if you cashed it in properly, I am out about 3T since last night. No word yet from CCP. Going to wait to see what the statement says, this is pretty surprising to me as we feel this is all legitimate gameplay and they seem to be reflecting that in their press releases. So I don't want to speculate too much right now on their thought process. It's a black box right now.
Hows that for hearsay.
When you say it it's hearsay. Aryth can post whatever he likes on the forums that doesn't make it true. Words on a forum are not evidence of conduct. It's really quite simple.
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1629
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:52:00 -
[2520] - Quote
Istyn wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone. That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it. So why do you deploy stuff before fixing it then blame the players and/or break the game?
You'll have to ask the people who deploy things that. My job is to clean up afterwards. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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