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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.06.21 17:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
GROUND ******* FLOOR |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 17:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aryndel Vyst wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Ituhata Saken wrote:Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,
At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. DonGÇÖt be That Guy.
By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch. It's pretty apt to make a banking analogy since CCP is probably as well managed as our US banks are. blammo |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
51
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Posted - 2012.06.21 17:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:I read their document a couple of nights ago You "read our document", eh? A few days ago, eh? I guess that means you didn't actually make 8.7b, then, since that document was literally released 1 hour ago. why are you goons incapable of understand that a couple = two whereas few and several tends to mean 3+
There really is an xkcd for everything http://xkcd.com/1070/ |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
51
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Posted - 2012.06.21 17:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Treyan Argund wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Weaselior wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: Serious question Sreegs, is this kind of thing actually cheating ? (ie against the rules) I read their document a couple of nights ago and though sure it really did blow massive holes through the eve game mechanics in order to make a giant profit - was it actually illegal ?
jade i'm pretty sure you didn't read a document written a day ago several days ago okay it would have been in the early hours of wed morning so lets say so a day and a half ago (or two nights) - which in english means "a couple" ... sometimes Weasoliar you are so nitpicky its positively cringworthy. Document was posted on GF.com literally an hour ago. Please damage control some more, it's cute. That means you guys were amongst the last to know ... thats actually quite funny.
Ahahahahahahahah
hahahahahahah a ha h ah ah ha ha aahh.
Oh. Man. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
62
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Posted - 2012.06.22 03:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm gay. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
62
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Posted - 2012.06.22 14:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Carlos Aranda wrote:Dramaticus wrote:
Switzerland
you mean like the Marcos Billions? I can live with that, because Switzerland confiscated them. Usually if dictators lose their power, Switzerland confiscates the money and either pays it to a legit new government or keep it silently in their wallet. @ jade: that would mean what? They cashed in already or not? I would say, they did not cash in the most part of what they claim to have. The market history did not change much in the last days.
You don't cash in all at once. You trickle over a long period of time as to not affect the price of the item that you're trying to sell.
Only morons dump what they're sitting on into the markets (and this is why the mineral market is crashing downward -- morons) |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
64
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Welp. This is a little more than ridiculous. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It isnt really a secret that many a corp have gotten their titan/titans from exploiting FW before inferno. As long as you dont go public its ok
You can be sure that things like this will never go public again. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
65
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Better Than You wrote:Makes me wonder why there are removing other assets outside of the faction warfare ones... RMT much little goonies?
[Citation Needed]
Read the new forum rules, thanks. No rumors. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
66
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Posted - 2012.06.23 06:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:InternetSpaceship wrote:
Huh. Guess it's time to finally gather the vast number of players who hate us into a giant alliance, fly up to VFK and finally drive us out of the game for good, eh?
Don't worry about wardec mechanics, we're in nullsec, you can shoot whoever you like. Concord doesn't babysit us out here. Should be a short and easy war for you.
That's VFK-IV folks, our staging system. Open and ready any time you've finally had enough of us and decide to actually handle it in-game instead of just whining and bitching to CCP on the forums to ban us for actually playing the game, but in a way you don't like.
Sun Tzu once wrote: if you wait by the river long enough, the body of your enemy will come floating by. That said: why, I'm having a blast blasting you in other games. For free. Why should I pay CCP for the privilege of doing something in EvE I already do in WoT?
lmbo |
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Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
66
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Posted - 2012.06.23 14:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that.
You seem pretty mad that a group of players are smarter than you.
Weird. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
68
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Posted - 2012.06.23 14:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jackie Fisher wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Abusing a programming issue is still abuse and you know this. So what does a programming issue mean? Bugs? Game mechanics having unexpected results?
Programming issue in this case was a formula that they published publically and then were told that it would be abused and ignored everyone.
Then once it was abused, they punished those who did it.
darius JOHNSON at his finest, ladies and gentlemen. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Enaris Kerle wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:By that standard the ferrogel exploit was also within the parameters. I don't know why this seems to not be sinking in. All exploits were programmed. The difference is that all of the components of this alleged exploit were working exactly as designed. You've always been able to manipulate the market. Shooting ships to get LP for the value of their cargo was what was stated on the devblog regarding the FW changes. So was upgrading the FW systems with LP to get lower prices from the LP store. The only thing that wasn't intended was a combination of all of these factors. This is entirely different from duping ferrogel, where it was never designed you could react stuff without using the inputs. It's closer to the insurance fraud scheme, where a working design (shoot ship, get insurance payout) was "abused" because you got more than the ship was worth. If we make a correction it clearly wasn't what we intended. You're not manipulating the price so much as taking advantage of time lapses in the calculation of value which pins a different currency to a seldom-changing somewhat arbitrary number that you can set.
They manipulated the market to change a number that you intentionally seldomly changed. This is somehow the player's faults and their assets should be seized. I get it!
I finally see the light. Thanks. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.06.23 14:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Holander Switzerland wrote:Man you guys messed up by telling them, they had no idea. You can tell because they just took everything FW away from the parties involved, regardless if it was earned beforehand. Either they don't have logs for this stuff, or they are just too incompetent to use them, or they don't care. We knew what was going on but it takes time to see scale. I'm going to warn you once not to misrepresent us in this thread and then I'm going to have your posting privileges revoked forever. Please do not interfere with our communication to our customers by inventing falsehoods.
You're doing this just fine yourself. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. Like the other posters in goonfleet I take exception to this idea that it's 'exploiting' a system when CCP designed these systems to do -exactly- what was done. When you build a system to allow you to lower LP costs and so forth it's not really an exploitation to use those systems to profit. An exploitation is when you use a system in a way that it was not intended to be used or find a way to outright break the system and use it wrongly. None of that was done, all the systems were used in the way they were intended and combined in a way that generated profit. I will say that I'll await the results of your investigation eagerly. Maybe the people responsible have lied to us and they really 'exploited' a system but so far all they've done as best I can see is use the systems you built in ways you didn't see when designing them and that means the fault lies with CCP, not the players. THAT is the nature of a sandbox. If you can't stand by your own bad design but instead seek to punish the players for finding the flaws in your designs then you deserve to lose the playerbase. Stand by your own shoddy work, not fling blame at the players. Not once has anyone blamed any players. We're well aware of what a sandbox is. We made it. If you print isk and I take away what you printed then you're in the same state you were prior to printing. That is not punishment it is fixing the problem.
You didn't give back the assets/isk that they sunk into "printing isk" (that they got from other players so they, in effect, printed no isk whatsoever).
So no, they're not at the state prior to printing, and they were, in fact, punished. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:and you're not qualified to discuss the matter because anything you type is hearsay
Oh damn son, you got me there.
Pack it in boys, the things that we heard straight from the people this happened to is hearsay.
We're finished. End of Goonswarm. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Dancing Tree wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:This wasn't just market manipulation it was taking advantage of a flaw in the code. It was a flaw in the design, not the code. Seeing that flaw when others do not is arbitrage. Leveraging arbitrage is what happened here, entirely within the bounds of the sandbox market. If leveraging arbitrage in the market becomes forbidden, what becomes of the game? You weren't just leveraging arbitrage because the value you were manipulating was fairly abritrary. This would not be acceptable in any financial system at all. I know ya'll are having fun pretending this is just A OK but I'm telling you it's not.
Oh look, an "Eve Is Real" post.
Thanks. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Holander Switzerland wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Nobody has been penalized
CCP Sreegs wrote: That is between us and Aryth. We've also stated that it was a temporary measure thus far. The hyperbole in this thread is pretty damn hilarious though. Comparing removing the manipulated assets of a small number of people to a complete redesign of the game may just win the prize.
Aryth wrote:Popping in. Will be out of pocket rest of day. I was hoping to have seen a Dev Blog by now but no dice.
Status for me right now: 1.2T in hard assets taken at least. Possibly more. I would need to go and put a hard value on all the BPC's seized. This was mixed in with my own stuff, I didn't keep separate stacks. 1.7B in LP zeroed out. Yes, that is a B.
So even if you value LP at 1k isk each, when it's 2k if you cashed it in properly, I am out about 3T since last night. No word yet from CCP. Going to wait to see what the statement says, this is pretty surprising to me as we feel this is all legitimate gameplay and they seem to be reflecting that in their press releases. So I don't want to speculate too much right now on their thought process. It's a black box right now.
Hows that for hearsay. When you say it it's hearsay. Aryth can post whatever he likes on the forums that doesn't make it true. Words on a forum are not evidence of conduct. It's really quite simple.
lmbo |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
72
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Posted - 2012.06.23 16:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tallon Sylph wrote:Is Eve still a sandbox? I'm pretty confused right now.
It is until you hit an arbitrary limit in which it's "abuse" and then get your assets seized. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
72
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ok I'm going to go watch The Footy. It's been a gas folks.
If only you'd do the same to the thread. |
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Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
90
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Posted - 2012.06.24 03:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Graic Gabtar wrote:Or Mittens could just saw screw it and burn everything. I hope to see this too: I'd love to see Mittens screw a saw. A nice rusty one. Or maybe a chainsaw.... Id like to see him try to burn it all down like the Goons constantly threaten.l
[Citation Needed]
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