what i don't understand is why hiseccers, who have substantially lower individual overhead than anybody in nullsec, feel entitled to nullsec levels of personal income

The only ones that come remotely close to that income is the market traders, good luck on fixing that one.

Oh yeh and I would like to see where someone says that they deserve to earn as much as someone in null sec ?

They actually end up taking money out of the economy, they don't inject it into the economy.


Do you mean optimal isk-earning in null, or were you going to include downtime due to roaming gangs, system campers and ship losses in that figure?

Why do you hive mind geniuses of the goonies care? Let everyone play the damned game as they see fit.

What's the deal with all the people in this thread who think making null/lowsec more vibrant equates to adjusting how much isk someone in nullsec makes (or similarly adjusting how much people in hisec can make)?

Is that all eve online is to you people, imaginary space bucks?

The development of societies is dictated by economics, not psychology.
Now, I've laid down some strong arguments on how to arrive at the desired goal of "making nullsec more vibrant", which involves buffing 0.0 industry to at least be capable of equal capacity of highsec, and make highsec AFK hauling less viable (if only to dampen 0.0 alliance-level supply convoys). But any sort of reform to fix even the most egregious tools of null alliance dominance that involves even the slightest thing to do with highsec unleashes wails of self-martyrization about how highsec players are being persecuted, or something.

Some of you null sec zealots seem to forget that the whole problem is partly the fault of their own alliances and their somtime complete hypocrit views on the game

They ve build sandcastles and now refuse any change that will even remotely have a chance ro disrupt their pretty sandcastles so nothing chages and people get bored ,
A majority of those alliances. Don t even consider any other form of industry beyond their moongoo because it takes effort and dedication by example
And they treat anybody who is a outsider as another possible killboardtrophee
Even renters as usually treated as shooting practise

And then They are suprised hardly anybody wants to go to nullsec anymore

What's the deal with all the people in this thread who think making null/lowsec more vibrant equates to adjusting how much isk someone in nullsec makes (or similarly adjusting how much people in hisec can make)?

Is that all eve online is to you people, imaginary space bucks?

L4s set a very high floor from which to base the rewards from in other avenues of the game. Last time CCP made nullsec something which drew tons of people out to run sanctums etc, it took 6 months or something like that before they had to panic-nerf them because of the effect they would've had on inflation.

Oh dear. The big problem with that argument is that it really doesn't appreciate that nullsec itself is very unattractive to many players. Lots of people don't like the idea of being shouted at by idiots on teamspeak, being forced into CTA's, being told where they can rat, where they can mine, when they have to logon and how high they have to jump.

The issue really is that 0.0 has become a virtual uniform monoculture with one structural format and only one mode of play. There is far more variety in lowsec (or even hisec) than nullsec can offer. I wouldn't lay the blame entirely with the players though, I think CCP have failed to promote gameplay variety in nullsec for half a decade now. As long as there is only one optimal path to success and wealth in nullsec people are going to choose that path, and where the path leads is mega alliances in perma naps sucking moon-minerals out of static resources while lording it over the peasants.

Once upon a time in Eve you could plan to go to 0.0 to kick over the established order, to destroy an alliance, to sieze power or liberate a benighted region with your heroic comrades at arms beside you.

These days the only people that go to 0.0 are joiners and followers who dig the workaday pattern of the cubicle-monkey and the wage slave.

Its perhaps Eve's deepest and most enduring irony that the genuine rebels and non-conformists of space are more likely to be found flipping cans in Jita or trying to mine ice during hulkageddon than out on the frontier. Nullsec has become sanitized corporate collectivism gone mad - its 9-5 administrators putting in their shift and boring their brains to self-destruct levels of lassitude.

And this is why these days the most exciting thing in nullsec is in hisec when the aristrocratic functionaries come to get their kicks hunting the urban poor for sport. (sounds a bit like a jean claud van damme film when you think of it like that).

Lots of people don't like the idea of being shouted at by idiots on teamspeak, being forced into CTA's, being told where they can rat, where they can mine, when they have to logon and how high they have to jump.

Well you have to accept that for the last five years or so (from the perspective of the rest of the game) "nothing good has come from nullsec". You guys have got a huge reputation as lazy dog-in-the-manger-moon-goo-suckers with a giant napfest cartel who do nothing but plan fresh "griefing" campaign on hisec because emergent gameplay only seems to flow one way.

Before the moon-mining cartels, back when 0.0 was actually interesting and alliances flourished and died and stories were made in 0.0 then you could at least point at "entertaining drama" as your chief commodity of export back to hisec - but these days even that has dried up.

Because the idiots in highsec have, over the course of the past few years, browbeat CCP into making it completely impossible to live in Nullsec. There is no reasonable explanation as to why you can get more money, more minerals, more everything in highsec compared to Nullsec, whereas in Nullsec you need a logistics chain to do anything AND have to worry about getting killed literally every second you're not in a station.

It's risk vs reward, and it needs adjusting. Has needed it for years.

if your have such a hard time in low, maybe you should move to hi tbh.

Bullshit, most of the whining to be honest has come from lo and null seccers and greifers bleating about how the hi seccers have it so easy.l

Anyone who suggests high-sec nerfs to try and stimulate low/null sec doesn't understand a god damned thing. If you want to make areas of the game better ... you have to make them better. Making other areas worse doesn't accomplish that, especially when it comes to trying to lure people from high sec into low/null/wh. They don't sit in high-sec because they can make decent isk, they sit in highsec because they don't want their little ships getting all shot up. If you want to get them to try other things, those things have to be fun or interesting enough to them to make them want to do it despite the liklihood of their ships getting blown up in the process

Well you have to accept that for the last five years or so (from the perspective of the rest of the game) "nothing good has come from nullsec". You guys have got a huge reputation as lazy dog-in-the-manger-moon-goo-suckers with a giant napfest cartel who do nothing but plan fresh "griefing" campaign on hisec because emergent gameplay only seems to flow one way.

Before the moon-mining cartels, back when 0.0 was actually interesting and alliances flourished and died and stories were made in 0.0 then you could at least point at "entertaining drama" as your chief commodity of export back to hisec - but these days even that has dried up.

This thread had such great potential but just went to **** in a damn hurry. Guess Null Sec simply can not be made more vibrant.. Discussion just degrades iinto badgering and ridicule on both sides. Gratz everyone!

Well then maybe you need to find a more communal corp to be a part of that shares the wealth it's creating on your back. I would bet your alliance makes trillions a month off of null sec activities. Yet you as a member need to run level 4s in high sec... lol.

This thread had such great potential but just went to **** in a damn hurry]

Check the OP for starters. Hiseccers with a persecution complex are the greatest whiners of all.

Go ahead CCP, listen to the people in the "make null virbant again" thread

...they tell you how to effectively loose 80% of the high sec customers and kill EvE.

We wont move to low
We wont move to 0.0
We just quit.

Forever alone in 0.0 you will be.

Good, the game is better off for it.

If 80% of subs disappeared you won't have a game.

Tal

Keep overestimating the importance of hisec carebears.

Sigh -

The situation with Null Sec being dead is not CCP's fault.

It's not the fault of high sec players either.

Null Sec is almost 100% player influenced. Null Sec is in the shape it's in due to the player corps & alliances that control Null Sec regions.

The question really shouldn't be about CCP or high sec. It should be:

Since the null sec players control the null sec regions, what can these corps and alliances do to make null sec more vibrant and appealing?

Sigh -

The situation with Null Sec being dead is not CCP's fault.

It's not the fault of high sec players either.

Null Sec is almost 100% player influenced. Null Sec is in the shape it's in due to the player corps & alliances that control Null Sec regions.

The question really shouldn't be about CCP or high sec. It should be:

Since the null sec players control the null sec regions, what can these corps and alliances do to make null sec more vibrant and appealing?

Until these corps and alliances do something about the situation themselves rather than complain and whine, then nothing will change. That space belongs to them. What they do with it belongs to them. How they promote it is up to them.

Null Sec is boring? Guess what - Null Sec corps and alliances made it that way. The game mechanics are working as intended. Why should CCP do anything to that aspect of the game since it's not broken. Your online experience is borked though, but that's not CCP's problem.