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Sokrateeze Minmatar Ultima Ratio Res Publica	Posted - 2009.12.24 17:45:00 - [1] Before anyone says it, I don't want to cross-train to Caldari. Thanks. Now then, what exactly is required to make a Minmatar Battleship work for level 4s? I was fiddling around in EFT, and while I think I can get a good armour tank set up on a Tempest, the dps from the guns seems so lacking. I don't understand it? I'm using a model of most relevant gunnery skills to 3 with gunnery itself at 5, with 1200mms and no gyrostabs or anything. I have 2.8milsp currently. So what exactly do I need/should use/setups plz?
Lord CH0w Caldari Xenogenics	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:04:00 - [2] use mealstrom - its easier to tank and gank :) lows with pds and gyros, mids with xl booster and boost amp and rat specific hardeners, highs with 1200's relevant skills to 4/5, bs skill to 4, if you want t2 guns then train them before bs 5 oh and 2.8 mln sp is kinda low m8, dont get me wrong ;) its possible but u will strugle and have to be carefull that means doing it step by step with mission survival guide. gl
Hannibal Ord Minmatar ORE Holdings	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:05:00 - [3] You need more skillpoints in Gunnery. More in Shield and capacitor skills. And when you can upgrade it to a maelstrom. For minnie ships (apart from the phoon) for missions, I think in general you are best of shield tanking them. this will free up your lows for Damage control, Gyro's and Tracking enhancers. As a rule of thumb for missions, armour tanking ships lesses the pure GANK ability of the ship. Though this isn't always the case, especially in the ammar ship line up. When you're skills get good and you can use tech II large projectiles, switch to 800 autocannons with barrage and you can get impressive range. At 2.8mil SP, you are basically a go kart driver asking why you can't use an F1 car effectively to race in and blaming the car because you can't use it well. it's a case of you really need better skills. Stick to level 3's with a BC, build up more support skills. In EvE, often you want competent skills before you actually commit to a ship.
Amanda Mor	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:12:00 - [4] I don't generally like saying this, but you don't really have enough SP to fly Battleships in PvE. And never use a Tempest. But congrats on not wanting to go the CNR route. Train up some decent shield skills and fly a Maelstrom, it's the only Minnie BS that's any good for level 4's. [Maelstrom, Mission Runner] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy F-RX Prototype I Capacitor Boost, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed 100MN Afterburner II 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L Large Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre I x1 Hammerhead II x4 Hammerhead II x1 I've never had a problem in any mission with this setup. You insta pop BC's and lower, and most BS's take only 2-3 hits. It should only take about a month of skill trng for you to use this effectively. With the projectile buff, it's actually worthwhile to un-group your guns so you don't waste any DPS on the smaller stuff.
Sokrateeze Minmatar Ultima Ratio Res Publica	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:22:00 - [5] Figured I'd end up jumping in a Mael, I tested with relevent skills and it is much, much better than the temp, but with missiles and shield tank, it's the complete opposite direction of my current skill set, so I figured I'd check if the temp was a viable l4 battleship. I will stick to l3s for now, there's no rush really, I work a lot right now anyways. Thanks guys!
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Sokrateeze Figured I'd end up jumping in a Mael, I tested with relevent skills and it is much, much better than the temp, but with missiles and shield tank, it's the complete opposite direction of my current skill set, so I figured I'd check if the temp was a viable l4 battleship. I will stick to l3s for now, there's no rush really, I work a lot right now anyways. Thanks guys! WHAT? maelstrom and missiles? WHAT!!!!???? WHATTTT!!!!?????
Hannibal Ord Minmatar ORE Holdings	Posted - 2009.12.24 19:03:00 - [7] Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Sokrateeze Figured I'd end up jumping in a Mael, I tested with relevent skills and it is much, much better than the temp, but with missiles and shield tank, it's the complete opposite direction of my current skill set, so I figured I'd check if the temp was a viable l4 battleship. I will stick to l3s for now, there's no rush really, I work a lot right now anyways. Thanks guys! WHAT? maelstrom and missiles? WHAT!!!!???? WHATTTT!!!!????? Well if you ever encounter a Curse, it's better than carrying the guns.
Dursun Idris	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Hannibal Ord Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Sokrateeze Figured I'd end up jumping in a Mael, I tested with relevent skills and it is much, much better than the temp, but with missiles and shield tank, it's the complete opposite direction of my current skill set, so I figured I'd check if the temp was a viable l4 battleship. I will stick to l3s for now, there's no rush really, I work a lot right now anyways. Thanks guys! WHAT? maelstrom and missiles? WHAT!!!!???? WHATTTT!!!!????? Well if you ever encounter a Curse, it's better than carrying the guns. Then fly a phoon. Fitting missiles to mael will make you a laughing stock when someone gets your killmail.
Caleidascope	Posted - 2009.12.25 01:52:00 - [9] I went with cruise missile Typhoon when the time came for L4 missions. Then Dominion came and added fifth missile bay which made things even better. Finally, Typhoon is less expansive.
Deb Dukar Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.25 02:01:00 - [10] Edited by: Deb Dukar on 25/12/2009 02:03:56 if u can use t2 weapons, got for a auto mealstrom. this thing is unbelivably awesome for missions. with barrage range is about 60 KM. if things comes close, go for t1 ammo. i barley use the capbooster cause usualy stuff dies so freakin fast its unbelievable. drones handle the frigs. [Maelstrom, pve auto] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Explosion Dampening Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I Large Projectile Locus Coordinator I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Valkyrie II x5 Warrior II x10 ------------------------- horray for typos

Hannibal Ord Minmatar ORE Holdings	Posted - 2009.12.25 02:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Dursun Idris Originally by: Hannibal Ord Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Sokrateeze Figured I'd end up jumping in a Mael, I tested with relevent skills and it is much, much better than the temp, but with missiles and shield tank, it's the complete opposite direction of my current skill set, so I figured I'd check if the temp was a viable l4 battleship. I will stick to l3s for now, there's no rush really, I work a lot right now anyways. Thanks guys! WHAT? maelstrom and missiles? WHAT!!!!???? WHATTTT!!!!????? Well if you ever encounter a Curse, it's better than carrying the guns. Then fly a phoon. Fitting missiles to mael will make you a laughing stock when someone gets your killmail. Just saying. There is a silver lining.
Newbie Ned Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.25 03:07:00 - [12] Whilst there are several options, Lord Chow nailed all the points in the first reply. Arty > AC for low SP.
Dursun Idris	Posted - 2009.12.25 08:24:00 - [13] Edited by: Dursun Idris on 25/12/2009 08:27:11 Originally by: Deb Dukar Edited by: Deb Dukar on 25/12/2009 02:03:56 if u can use t2 weapons, got for a auto mealstrom. this thing is unbelivably awesome for missions. with barrage range is about 60 KM. if things comes close, go for t1 ammo. i barley use the capbooster cause usualy stuff dies so freakin fast its unbelievable. drones handle the frigs. [Maelstrom, pve auto] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Explosion Dampening Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I Large Projectile Locus Coordinator I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Valkyrie II x5 Warrior II x10 I recommend dropping an invul and fitting a shield boost amp. Works sweet with mael's bonus. And cap safeguards (i don't remember if they called such, shield cap reduce rig) for rigs, they wont be adding much cos diminishing returns from tracking enhancers and gyros. You may also drop cap booster with something else. (maybe ab for a real slow ac boat?)
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.25 10:33:00 - [14] Edited by: Von Kapiche on 25/12/2009 10:34:14 Invuln works all the time, boost amp works only when the booster is on. If you're permatanking it'd make sense, but in a burst tank I don't see why you'd use one over a passive module that is permanently reducing incoming damage. I'd replace an invuln with an AB though. Dunno if I'd go with the rig choices, but the rest of that quoted setup is nice ( assuming the invulns are placeholders for specific hardeners ).
Kaian Voskhod	Posted - 2009.12.25 11:12:00 - [15] I know I know, the machariel is not 100% minnie. But It's weaponry is heavy projos so... Skill wise it's quite a minnie ship. SO if you want something that blast L4 (and your wallet =), try this: [Machariel, Macha PVE] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x4 Some stats: - Cap stable WITHOUT AB at 37% - perma tank 429 dps with omni tank (more with rat specific) - 918 dps without drones and without implants (with drones + implants = over 1100) - ship speed with AB = 577ms - falloff range = 69km You can exchange the after burner with whatever you want It just chew rats and spit isks.
Dursun Idris	Posted - 2009.12.25 11:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Von Kapiche Edited by: Von Kapiche on 25/12/2009 10:34:14 Invuln works all the time, boost amp works only when the booster is on. If you're permatanking it'd make sense, but in a burst tank I don't see why you'd use one over a passive module that is permanently reducing incoming damage. I'd replace an invuln with an AB though. Dunno if I'd go with the rig choices, but the rest of that quoted setup is nice ( assuming the invulns are placeholders for specific hardeners ). Period that you don't activate booster and the times you activate it contributes to sustained tank, where a shield boost amp still gives better results than some extra resist, that already reduced by stack penalty. And larger boost amount means you will have to run less cycles to fill your lost shield. And also, normally, it gives you more peak boost, when sometimes you need more tanking for some period, like drones killing a frig pulls aggro from all of npc's, or at another tight situation. The ehp which invul gives with stack penalty will not cover you much in missions.
Deb Dukar Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.25 20:43:00 - [17] Edited by: Deb Dukar on 25/12/2009 20:45:20 Edited by: Deb Dukar on 25/12/2009 20:43:56 Edited by: Deb Dukar on 25/12/2009 20:43:37 Originally by: Von Kapiche Edited by: Von Kapiche on 25/12/2009 10:34:14 Invuln works all the time, boost amp works only when the booster is on. If you're permatanking it'd make sense, but in a burst tank I don't see why you'd use one over a passive module that is permanently reducing incoming damage. I'd replace an invuln with an AB though. Dunno if I'd go with the rig choices, but the rest of that quoted setup is nice ( assuming the invulns are placeholders for specific hardeners ). actualy i have a AB on it and dropped 1 invul / specific hardener. i was jsut to lazy to replace them here. but for me, there is no need for a booster since ive got min BS 5. i havnt encountered a single situation yet where i realy needed it. thats unless u pull the whole stage and everything is orbiting you closerange (last stage worlds collide for example). for teh Artys > AC statement. i disagree here. especialy in missions. teh DPS is noticable lower and the next problem is if stuff gets to close, u HAVE to align yourself to bring transversal down. requires far to mcuh work for my taste. ------------------------- horray for typos
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2009.12.25 20:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Dursun Idris ... You're flat wrong. Passive recharge plays a very significant part in your overall tank unless permaboosting. Why would you cripple yourself by fitting SBAs that only help the boost part of your tank when you can fit resists that help the whole thing? -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Dursun Idris	Posted - 2009.12.26 00:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Dursun Idris ... You're flat wrong. Passive recharge plays a very significant part in your overall tank unless permaboosting. Why would you cripple yourself by fitting SBAs that only help the boost part of your tank when you can fit resists that help the whole thing? -Liang Passive shield regen bonus from that invul + resist increase hardly makes up for what boost amp gives to you. For any other ship, maybe it will have a bit more value but mael is a ship actually focused on s.boost.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2009.12.26 01:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Dursun Idris Passive shield regen bonus from that invul + resist increase hardly makes up for what boost amp gives to you. For any other ship, maybe it will have a bit more value but mael is a ship actually focused on s.boost. I am aware that the Maelstrom gets a bonus to shield boost amount. However, you actually have to use your shield booster to take advantage of it. As I mentioned earlier - only about 2/3rds of your tank even on a Maelstrom is done with boosting. Additionally boosting requires the use of capacitor (which on cap boosted setups means chewing cap boosters). Nah, you get kinda a raw deal with a SBA unless you're going for permaboost or you're waaaay overtanked (resists effectively maxed). -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org

Myrkala Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2009.12.26 01:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Dursun Idris Passive shield regen bonus from that invul + resist increase hardly makes up for what boost amp gives to you. For any other ship, maybe it will have a bit more value but mael is a ship actually focused on s.boost. I am aware that the Maelstrom gets a bonus to shield boost amount. However, you actually have to use your shield booster to take advantage of it. As I mentioned earlier - only about 2/3rds of your tank even on a Maelstrom is done with boosting. Additionally boosting requires the use of capacitor (which on cap boosted setups means chewing cap boosters). Nah, you get kinda a raw deal with a SBA unless you're going for permaboost or you're waaaay overtanked (resists effectively maxed). -Liang I do it the unorthodox way... but I have perfect cap skills, and that dude there suggesting a fit worth a few bil on a billion isk ship is... funny. Buy a pith c-type small shield booster (not sure how much they are, maybe 50-70 mil) and permarun it. Fit another X-L booster you run when it gets tough. Fit a cap booster, but get used to bursting the X-L booster. The small tanks almost 200 dps with good skills and it's really efficient at converting cap into shield HP, especially if you fit a SBA. You only really need the x-l 10% of the mission. (T1 as t2 is sp intensive.) I always fit an AB on my mission ships, it's added mobility and a "free tracking computer" to lower transversal/angvel. [Maelstrom, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I 100MN Afterburner II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I The CCC is in there because of the OP's low SP, i'd also suggest buying cap implants, they are a cheap and fast way to help with cap. cc2/cc4 and cr2/cr4 implants. Small tank runs forever at over 57% cap with all lvl 5 without a CCC, I think it shouldn't be hard for someone with low sp to do it with a CCC. If you are however, still having trouble swap out the small shield booster for a large cap booster until you get get better skills and get better at running missions. Later you can probably ditch the ccc and fit a 3rd ambit or something else more useful. Use 1200mm guns for missions requiring longer range, but fit autos for closer range missions. You can also use specific hardeners for missions to make it even easier to tank. - NO SPLIT WEAPON BONUSES ON THE NAGLFAR PLEASE!
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.27 02:02:00 - [22] You can also overheat active hardeners, if you think you're taking too much damage. They go on for ever like that anyway, its not like they burn out like a small MWD.
Weecan Fixit	Posted - 2009.12.27 20:43:00 - [23] My mission Maelstrom:- [Maelstrom, Pithi Mission Strom] Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Ionic Field Accelerator I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Warrior II x5 With my skills (and implants) I can tank 416 omni damage and kick out just short of 900 DPS. The autocannons have 4km optimal and 47km falloff using short range T1 ammo and the optimal script in the tracking computer. They actually hit out to over 80km quite comfortably. Switch to Barrage ammo for 736 DPS at 8.5km optimal and 71km falloff!! When/if any rats get under 40km I switch the tracking computer script to hit better at closer range. Tank runs for 23 minutes, which should be more than enough to reduce incoming damage to the point you can switch one booster off to recoup cap. Swap out the invuls for rat specific hardeners for permarunning tank - using a kinetic and explosive vs Angels, for example, gives 727 tank, permarunning. The tracking computer can be dropped and swapped out for AB or a second boost amp. I am using a T1 boost amp because I still have 2 days to go for Shield Management V, then I will fit a T2 one :) I use a flight of medium drones vs cruisers and above and a flight of Warriors for frigs and spider drones. The ECM drones are there in case a war target tackler manages to get me in a mission (not that I always run missions during wartime). And for the OP, I run this fit with about 30 Million SP. When I first started Level 4s I tried with a Tempest too. It was soooo bad that I put it in the hangar and went back to Lvl 3s in a Hurricane until I got battleship 4, large autocannons/artillery to 4 and all associated gunnery skills to at least 4, then I came back and bought the Maelstrom. Even then I usually had to warp out of tougher missions. I have never used a Phoon in missions. While I think the Phoon is probably OK, I prefer to shield tank in PVE and keep the lows for damage and tracking mods.


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