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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.12.24 12:00:00 -
[1]
Dominion [DOM] brought with it a much needed improvement to projectile weapons, especially the improved ammo.
Prior to [DOM] there was a relatively fine balance in regards to offensive/defensive capabilities of Minmatar ships with projectile bonuses due to generally poor gun performance.
The fitting requirements of ACs allows Thrashers, Rifters and Ruptures in particular to be capable of fitting oversized buffer modules on top of full combat fittings with correct size/number of guns. No other race is able to fit appropriate size/number of weapons on top of a huge buffer but have to sacrifice either speed (MWD -> AB) or damage/range (downgrading weapons)*.
The [DOM] changes made ACs as good if not better than most other weapon options due to high-tracking, high damage, good range and near perfect damage types, combined with the full oversize buffer ability the AC fitting have become too good .. something has to give.
Examples: Thorax has to use small weapons to use a 1600 plate. Maller has to use small weapons to use a 1600 plate. Caracal has to use light missile launchers to use LSEs. Etc.
Solution: Increase AC grid fitting requirement by 15-20% across the board. Still allows for buffering but introduces the same kind of sacrifices that all other ships have to make thus bringing the Minmatar ships back in-line with the rest of Eve.
Note: A change in grid requirement will have minimal impact on BC and BS class ships in regards to fitting buffer modules, but excessive buffering will require sacrifices as it does for all others.
*Viable fits at any rate. Gimmick fits do not count as they are not used.
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Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
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Posted - 2009.12.26 17:14:00 -
[2]
[Thorax] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5 ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.12.26 18:50:00 -
[3]
I believe the guy above me just owned your point and you need to learn how to fit.
No support for this topic. --Isaac
Signature is now under construction: check back in a couple weeks. Or months....
AMAAR VICTOR!
"You just can't fix stupid"
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Vheri Kai'or
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Posted - 2009.12.27 02:37:00 -
[4]
you really need to train your engineering skills...cos seriously, if you cant fit the above fit (tech levels nonwithstanding) then your doign something wrong. i can and i dont even fly thorax's
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.12.27 07:28:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 27/12/2009 07:29:00 My skills are fine thank, and that Thorax fit PROVES my point .. not only does he have to use the smallest possible blaster in the medium size, but he is forced to lose 20% of the gun DPS by dropping a gun, that is bloody huge. The balance is the sacrifice.
Nice try, but I have done my research.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.27 07:53:00 -
[6]
[Thorax, 1600mm] Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
Thread is pretty meh, not that I really bothered undocking one of my Thoraxes since QR...
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.12.27 09:47:00 -
[7]
WE NEED MOAR POWAHHH!!!!
JUST KIDDING WE NEED LESS POWAHHH!!!
WAIT WE NEED A LITTLE MOAR POWAHHH!!!!
HOLY CRAP CCP FAILS WE NEED LESS POWAHHH!!!
WHY DOES THIS GAME SO UNBALANCED TBQH?!?!!!!
Oh, and:
**** YEAH, TORTUGAN!
(In case you didn't catch the hidden message: quit f**king asking for minor adjustments.)
:D
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Pistrik
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.12.27 16:58:00 -
[8]
ACs are fine, stop whining.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.27 18:02:00 -
[9]
jebus this didn't take long, we get a buff APPROACHING parity with amarr (they are still better) and already come the NERF MINNIES whine threads.
NOT SUPPORTED --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.27 18:08:00 -
[10]
yeah nerf matar
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Mutnin
Amarr Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.27 18:51:00 -
[11]
I disagree with this proposal, as I think the Projectile buff finally put A/C's on a level playing field with Amarr's lasers. Even still, Lasers have an advantage of range and almost instant ammo changes.
Blasters IMO now need a bit of an update to also be brought up to par as they still suffer from horrible range that puts them at a disadvantage to both A/C's and Pulse Lasers.
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Vheri Kai'or
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Posted - 2009.12.27 20:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 27/12/2009 07:29:00 My skills are fine thank, and that Thorax fit PROVES my point .. not only does he have to use the smallest possible blaster in the medium size, but he is forced to lose 20% of the gun DPS by dropping a gun, that is bloody huge. The balance is the sacrifice.
Nice try, but I have done my research.
ummm no it dont. for your delectation:
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
No other race is able to fit appropriate size/number of weapons on top of a huge buffer but have to sacrifice either speed (MWD -> AB) or damage/range (downgrading weapons)*. Examples: Thorax has to use small weapons to use a 1600 plate. Maller has to use small weapons to use a 1600 plate. Caracal has to use light missile launchers to use LSEs. Etc.
you have already been shown to be wrong. you say small weapons you dont say anything about medium weapons, no matter what tier they may be. your changing the goalposts now youve been proven wrong.
the above thorax fit gives you a viable pvp tackler fit thorax that fits medium weapons, an mwd and a 1600mm plate. it also has higher ehp (28336 'rax to 27195 rup with my skills) roughly equal dps (ruppy slightly outguns it with sr ammo w/o taking drones into account-which would probably tip the balance for any gallente pilot) and has superior cap stability, which means it can mwd for longer, and as it can also move fastr mwd'ing (1112 to 1096m/s) it can go farther again before needing to turn off. it also has the bonus of not instapopping once its armour has dropped away due to the gallente structure tank :P
so no, the proj guns dont need nerfing. nor does the rax or im sure the other ships mentioned need boosting.
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Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
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Posted - 2009.12.27 20:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 27/12/2009 07:29:00 My skills are fine thank, and that Thorax fit PROVES my point .. not only does he have to use the smallest possible blaster in the medium size, but he is forced to lose 20% of the gun DPS by dropping a gun, that is bloody huge. The balance is the sacrifice.
Nice try, but I have done my research.
electron medium blasters = highest tracking, with only a minimum dps lost compared to ions or neutrons.
Plus I could've put a small neutron in that 5th spot to make up for some dps, but whatever... nos, neut, small blaster.
Plus the power diag gives you added shield buffer (lol), cap recharge rate, and total cap. Meaning longer mwd burn time, or more neuting against your opponent.
Would it be nice to fit 1600 plate with 5 med neutrons and 10mn mwd? yes it would be nice.
Is it game breaking to have to resort to my fit? of course not. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.12.28 00:57:00 -
[14]
1600mm MWD Ruppy usually has TWO empty high slots or fit with rockets or some other nonsense you brain dead noob. L2play before you spew your ignorance here, Hirana Yoshida.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.28 01:54:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Would it be nice to fit 1600 plate with 5 med neutrons and 10mn mwd? yes it would be nice.
Is it game breaking to have to resort to my fit? of course not.
Don't even have to resort to your fit. Fit an RCU or an ACR.
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Vheri Kai'or
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Posted - 2009.12.28 12:03:00 -
[16]
and for the OP's delectation, i thought it throw together a caracal fit. note the caracal is fail as a tackler, but i thought i would try anyway. cos i like proving people wrong.
highs:
5x 'arbalest' heavy missile launcher
mids: 10mn mwd II warp disruptor II target painter II invul. field II lse II
lows:
rcu II bcs II
rigs:
core defence field extenders.
strange how all these ships can fit their supposed weaponry and still be efficient at their pvp roles as defined by the OP isnt it?
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.12.28 12:51:00 -
[17]
[Maller, Tank] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I 10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M [empty high slot]
Another one. Of course maller has crappy dps but that's separate issue...
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Krans Hopeson
Hypercube Ventures
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Posted - 2009.12.28 17:15:00 -
[18]
Not well thought out, not needed, not supported. Fail. -- "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
Sepheir Sepheron
BAHRAM Military
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Posted - 2009.12.28 18:40:00 -
[19]
You tards are using reactor controls and power diagnostics systems on a Thorax...
Projectiles use no cap to fire, hit almost the hardest now and take the least amount of power, it is clear as f***ing crystal that they are now the flavor of the month and overpowered. And now I'm finding out they can discriminate using specialized damage types in close range...
So they're missiles that hit instantly using no cap and ignoring signature with magnificent tracking and almost no power usage.... Sounds perfect.
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Vheri Kai'or
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Posted - 2009.12.28 22:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sepheir Sepheron You tards are using reactor controls and power diagnostics systems on a Thorax...
Projectiles use no cap to fire, hit almost the hardest now and take the least amount of power, it is clear as f***ing crystal that they are now the flavor of the month and overpowered. And now I'm finding out they can discriminate using specialized damage types in close range...
So they're missiles that hit instantly using no cap and ignoring signature with magnificent tracking and almost no power usage.... Sounds perfect.
cool story bro. i cannot remember the last time i saw a pvp fit ship of any sort that didnt need to fit an rcu or the like to get everything on it without gimping the fit in some way. and something you seem to be forgetting is that "projectiles", that is to say the group you are generalising as the new fotm, are not "the best" and that what your whining about is more to do with the problems surrounding blasters than it is autocannons (merely one amongst two kinds of projectiles) being "OP"
as i said before the thorax fit above almost equals the most comparable ruppy fit in dps, and has superior speed, tank, cap stability and turning capability, not even including the gallente secondary weapons system. with an RCU that thorax fit can add a final gun and it becomes superior to the ruppy fit in every way.
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Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
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Posted - 2009.12.28 22:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sepheir Sepheron You tards are using reactor controls and power diagnostics systems on a Thorax...
Projectiles use no cap to fire, hit almost the hardest now and take the least amount of power, it is clear as f***ing crystal that they are now the flavor of the month and overpowered. And now I'm finding out they can discriminate using specialized damage types in close range...
So they're missiles that hit instantly using no cap and ignoring signature with magnificent tracking and almost no power usage.... Sounds perfect.
Show me your uber Rupture fit please, the one with a full rack of 425mm IIs.
Until then, HTFU and STFU.
[Rupture, Lvl 5 + PG8 implant] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
1,219.4 pg used out of 1,128.75
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Efrim Black
Gallente Guardians of Misr
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Posted - 2009.12.29 09:17:00 -
[22]
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