Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aladine
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 18:31:00 -
[1]
Hello all, IÆm heading down the path to get into logistic ships and I noticed that I pretty much fill the requirements for Strategic Cursers and Heavy Assault Ships. I was wondering what theyÆre both ôbestö at. Looking at it from a tech stand point, wouldnÆt the Legion the T3 ship be better than the T2 HAS? I donÆt know, thatÆs why IÆm asking :) I know this all depends on the fit, but where do these ships excel? PvP, WH, PvE?
IÆm interested in:
The Legion The Sacrilege The Zealot
Where do these ships excel, and is one better than the other at it? Thanks!
|
Don Pellegrino
Helljumpers Aeternus.
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 18:43:00 -
[2]
The Zealot is a sniping ship. Either fit Pulses and use Scorch or, even better, fit beams, a MWD and lots of heat sinks and tracking enhancers. It has no tank, but its range keeps it alive. Zealot *can* be fitted for close range with plates, but it's a total waste of money to do so because a Harbinger can do that better for a fraction of the cost.
The Sacrilege is a tanking monster with very good missile damage. It excels at close range fights with Heavy Assault Missiles. There is an infinity of variations when it comes to fitting it, but nearly all fits use HAM launchers and 2 medium armor reps. The rest is up to you. Compared to a Harbinger, it is a lot faster and has an active tank, so it's better for smaller gang situations. It can also often disengage and survive situations that a Harbinger cannot because of its size and plates.
T3 ships are not worth the money when compared to T1 or T2 ships, but they can still do some unique things. The Legion isn't very good at sniping, but it can be fitted like an uber Sacrilege. It's also pretty good with gang links like a Damnation, but why not use a Damnation, then? One of the unique things it can do is being impossible to probe out and sit in a safe spot during battles
|
abrasive soap
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 19:09:00 -
[3]
the sacrilege and legion suck
|
Aladine
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 19:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: abrasive soap the sacrilege and legion suck
Good to know, lol.. So does that make the Zealot the best advanced cruser for amarr? (currently im trying to get the most out of amarr ships as I can.)
|
Firetale
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 19:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aladine
Originally by: abrasive soap the sacrilege and legion suck
Good to know, lol.. So does that make the Zealot the best advanced cruser for amarr? (currently im trying to get the most out of amarr ships as I can.)
Well, Zealot is a good gang ship, with good range. Pretty good.
Sacrileg does not have low-medicore damage, but tanks like a beast. Good option for solo.
T3 is just a bit better zealot at gang work, or a lot better Sacrileg.
|
Aladine
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 01:55:00 -
[6]
In the words of Jonny #5, ôMore INPUT!!!ö
|
Zaius Caine
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 03:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: abrasive soap the sacrilege and legion suck
Sometimes I'm still amazed at how truly clueless some of the people on these forums are.
OP, the Sac is by far one of the best HAC's in game when it comes to solo/small gang work, putting out very respectable DPS and tanking like a beast. Looks cool as hell too.
|
Eli Porter
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 04:11:00 -
[8]
Pretty much what Don said, and just adding that the Legion offers the best armor gang link bonuses(5% per level compared with 3% per level on the Damnation) and is easier to hide in a system(Making it un-probeable).
|
abrasive soap
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 07:19:00 -
[9]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 23/12/2009 07:19:36
Originally by: Zaius Caine
Originally by: abrasive soap the sacrilege and legion suck
Sometimes I'm still amazed at how truly clueless some of the people on these forums are.
OP, the Sac is by far one of the best HAC's in game when it comes to solo/small gang work, putting out very respectable DPS and tanking like a beast. Looks cool as hell too.
the ham drake does something like double the dps of an active sacrilege and has more ehp than a buffer tanked sacrilege i have taken active sacrileges below structure in ham drakes before the sacrilege can get me to 70% shield (no i do not use voodoo magic ecm drones) the purpose of hacs is speed and range and you lose both in the sacrilege when you use hams and armor rig it
tldr: the sacrilege is a pointless ship with crap range, crap speed and an awful dronebay
p.s. the drake looks better
|
Lady Aja
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 07:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: abrasive soap Edited by: abrasive soap on 23/12/2009 07:19:36
Originally by: Zaius Caine
Originally by: abrasive soap the sacrilege and legion suck
Sometimes I'm still amazed at how truly clueless some of the people on these forums are.
OP, the Sac is by far one of the best HAC's in game when it comes to solo/small gang work, putting out very respectable DPS and tanking like a beast. Looks cool as hell too.
the ham drake does something like double the dps of an active sacrilege and has more ehp than a buffer tanked sacrilege i have taken active sacrileges below structure in ham drakes before the sacrilege can get me to 70% shield (no i do not use voodoo magic ecm drones) the purpose of hacs is speed and range and you lose both in the sacrilege when you use hams and armor rig it
tldr: the sacrilege is a pointless ship with crap range, crap speed and an awful dronebay
p.s. the drake looks better
shooting pilots down who have no clue wth they are doing, does not make a ship suck.
|
|
Zaius Caine
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 18:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: abrasive soap Edited by: abrasive soap on 23/12/2009 07:19:36
Originally by: Zaius Caine
Originally by: abrasive soap the sacrilege and legion suck
Sometimes I'm still amazed at how truly clueless some of the people on these forums are.
OP, the Sac is by far one of the best HAC's in game when it comes to solo/small gang work, putting out very respectable DPS and tanking like a beast. Looks cool as hell too.
the ham drake does something like double the dps of an active sacrilege and has more ehp than a buffer tanked sacrilege i have taken active sacrileges below structure in ham drakes before the sacrilege can get me to 70% shield (no i do not use voodoo magic ecm drones) the purpose of hacs is speed and range and you lose both in the sacrilege when you use hams and armor rig it
tldr: the sacrilege is a pointless ship with crap range, crap speed and an awful dronebay
p.s. the drake looks better
I'm sorry, are you actually comparing DPS and EHP between HAC's and BC's? You really are clueless.
It's like comparing apples and oranges, two very different things. Of course the BC will win out in raw DPS and EHP, thats the way its supposed to be. I mean, isnt that a little bit like comparing BC DPS/EHP with that of a BS? Dont be ******ed, dude.
You seem to be forgetting that HAC's are smaller, faster and more agile, all of which are huge advantages especially in solo/small gang situations. I mean really man, good luck even catching any semi-competent HAC pilot in a BC if he does not want to be caught.
You should try to take some of your forum trolling time and instead use it to learn more about the game you are playing.
|
arbiter reborn
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 18:17:00 -
[12]
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 23/12/2009 18:22:43
**** zealots sac is the wat to go, 550 dps and a 900 dps tank, not to mention its quick. one of the best hacs in the game,
KHANID POWER!
edit: ive been toying with the legion, its pretty crazy dual rep fit with hams (it gets like 2k tank) ive also tried it nano with hml's ( could almost say it was sacrelige ) it does pretty well snaked with a good clay in gang, but really if you have to ask i wouldnt bother with it yet, choose your wepon system to spec in and follow that route. go legion when youre 25-30m sp or so depending on how well you're trained
also assault off sub should really turn it black
|
abrasive soap
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 19:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 23/12/2009 19:16:04
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: abrasive soap Edited by: abrasive soap on 23/12/2009 07:19:36
Originally by: Zaius Caine
Originally by: abrasive soap the sacrilege and legion suck
Sometimes I'm still amazed at how truly clueless some of the people on these forums are.
OP, the Sac is by far one of the best HAC's in game when it comes to solo/small gang work, putting out very respectable DPS and tanking like a beast. Looks cool as hell too.
the ham drake does something like double the dps of an active sacrilege and has more ehp than a buffer tanked sacrilege i have taken active sacrileges below structure in ham drakes before the sacrilege can get me to 70% shield (no i do not use voodoo magic ecm drones) the purpose of hacs is speed and range and you lose both in the sacrilege when you use hams and armor rig it
tldr: the sacrilege is a pointless ship with crap range, crap speed and an awful dronebay
p.s. the drake looks better
shooting pilots down who have no clue wth they are doing, does not make a ship suck.
he was fit with your generic dual rep sacrilege fit
Quote:
I'm sorry, are you actually comparing DPS and EHP between HAC's and BC's? You really are clueless.
It's like comparing apples and oranges, two very different things. Of course the BC will win out in raw DPS and EHP, thats the way its supposed to be. I mean, isnt that a little bit like comparing BC DPS/EHP with that of a BS? Dont be ******ed, dude.
You seem to be forgetting that HAC's are smaller, faster and more agile, all of which are huge advantages especially in solo/small gang situations. I mean really man, good luck even catching any semi-competent HAC pilot in a BC if he does not want to be caught.
You should try to take some of your forum trolling time and instead use it to learn more about the game you are playing.
I find it funny that you completely ignored half of my post and simply focus to the bc versus hac comparison. You gain no range using the sacrilege. You gain almost no speed in the sacrilege because of the armor rigs on an already bad base speed. It isn't even a challenge to catch a sacrilege with a bc as half of the bcs in game are faster than an armor rigged sacrilege. You mentioned comparing battleship damage to battlecruiser damage but the two are quite comparable.
If you admit that the sacrilege loses in dps and ehp, what exactly does the sacrilege do right? It has terrible range with hams, and even if it happened to be fast it would still be bad. Look at the deimos which is one of the faster, higher dps hacs and look at how bad it is because of the lack of range.
tldr: speed, agility and signature radius mean nothing when you're in close range
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 19:20:00 -
[14]
Sacrilege is ****. Not quite Deimos ****, but still ****.
Any attempt to get decent DPS out of it results in a crappy tank. Any attempt to get decent tank out of it results in crappy DPS and crappy mobility.
Its mobility advantage over a HAM Drake is negated as soon as it goes within tackle range, which it has to. The Cerberus is comically superior as a missile HAC; the Drake is superior as a close-range brawler.
|
rompetroll
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 20:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aladine In the words of Jonny #5, ôMore INPUT!!!ö
I love that movie.
Zealot as said is a sniper. Great ship.
Sacrilege should be played as heavy tackle. It will do decent dps with HAMS but nothing amazing. Its tank on the other hand can be impressive.
The Legion is just...welp...
|
arbiter reborn
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 20:26:00 -
[16]
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 23/12/2009 20:30:36
Originally by: Gypsio III Sacrilege is ****. Not quite Deimos ****, but still ****.
Any attempt to get decent DPS out of it results in a crappy tank. Any attempt to get decent tank out of it results in crappy DPS and crappy mobility.
Its mobility advantage over a HAM Drake is negated as soon as it goes within tackle range, which it has to. The Cerberus is comically superior as a missile HAC; the Drake is superior as a close-range brawler.
dude your just doing it wrong, lows should be tank rigs should be damage that way you get good damage with good speed and a massive tank, you also dont seem to understand tracking mechanics
tldr, 20km is very decent range for a high damage wepon system. sig affects hostile tracking and missile damage, webrange is 13 km oh and 1500ms isnt slow
|
abrasive soap
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 20:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: arbiter reborn Edited by: arbiter reborn on 23/12/2009 20:30:36
Originally by: Gypsio III Sacrilege is ****. Not quite Deimos ****, but still ****.
Any attempt to get decent DPS out of it results in a crappy tank. Any attempt to get decent tank out of it results in crappy DPS and crappy mobility.
Its mobility advantage over a HAM Drake is negated as soon as it goes within tackle range, which it has to. The Cerberus is comically superior as a missile HAC; the Drake is superior as a close-range brawler.
dude your just doing it wrong, lows should be tank rigs should be damage that way you get good damage with good speed and a massive tank, you also dont seem to understand tracking mechanics
tldr, 20km is very decent range for a high damage wepon system. sig affects hostile tracking and missile damage, webrange is 13 km oh and 1500ms isnt slow
how can you guys keep talking about sig radius and speed in the same sentence when you're mwding your sig blooms anyways and when you're not mwding you're going to get caught because of how bad the range of hams is also, you don't get a massive tank when you damage rig it
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 22:04:00 -
[18]
So you get something like:
[Suckrilege] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Warrior II x3
1597 m/s (poor) 140 m sig (182 m with Rage) (so what?) 414 DPS (455 with Rage) to 20 km (18 km) (crap) 23k EHP, 529 DPS tank with standard Exile (so ****ing what?)
I'm not impressed.
|
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 01:23:00 -
[19]
Gypsio and others have the sac right. It's just unimpressive all around. I'd love to fly one but the ship is just so crap in reality that I can't make it work.
I'm interested in seeing active legion setups though, I seem to remember EFTing it and not being that impressed. I remember it having sac syndrome, where it either tanked OR ganked and didn't actually tank that well. But I haven't looked at an active Legion in awhile, so I'd love to see a good setup for one.
|
Kaileen Starsong
Amarr Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 03:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
I'm interested in seeing active legion setups though, I seem to remember EFTing it and not being that impressed. I remember it having sac syndrome, where it either tanked OR ganked and didn't actually tank that well. But I haven't looked at an active Legion in awhile, so I'd love to see a good setup for one.
**Edit** Dmg and RoF rigs are also extremely inefficient slot wise. It takes 2 rigs to equal one dmg mod. At least tanking or speed mods aren't as bad as 2:1 ratio for module effectiveness.
Don't see a point in active-tanked Legion, tbh. OK, even if it gets what.. 1.5-2k DPS tanked, that'll get eaten by 3-4 BC+ depending on ships/fits and it'd still do DPS of a towel. Now, plated one with Slaves is quite a lot more interesting, although it really turns like a brick, but 600 DPS and 300k EHP is not bad at all, eh?
About DMG/ROF rigs btw, those CAN be quite good... if they're T2. Gun rigs go pretty cheap and for example 2 damage mods + T2 ROF rig have the same effect as 3 damage mods, and you can still fit 2xtrimarks or 2xCDFEs on top of that. That said, not much use for T3/faction, since you'd run out of calibration(well, unless you fit T1 trimarks on T3 )
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 10:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gypsio III So you get something like:
[Suckrilege] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Warrior II x3
1597 m/s (poor) 140 m sig (182 m with Rage) (so what?) 414 DPS (455 with Rage) to 20 km (18 km) (crap) 23k EHP, 529 DPS tank with standard Exile (so ****ing what?)
I'm not impressed.
If the Sac could drop the nearly useless utility high for an extra low, it would be a far better ship IMO. But until active tanking becomes worthwhile again it will always be a pretty niche ship. I want it to be good. It ought to be good. But it's like the Scorpion: it's a ship that is almost awesome, it looks great on paper, but is in practice very mediocre.
Drop a high to a low (plus add a smidgen of CPU) and give it +30 or +40 scan res, and it would become an interesting pirate boat, and a useful heavy tackler. Or just add +600-700 base armour hp so that it actually has enough HP to survive long enough for the reps to kick in.
|
arbiter reborn
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 11:38:00 -
[22]
i dont get how none of you seem to get the sac,but your loss
|
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 17:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: arbiter reborn i dont get how none of you seem to get the sac,but your loss
What's to get?
Give me a fit that is worth flying, that actually contributes something to a gang. I can't find one...
|
arbiter reformed
Minmatar Reverse Psychology. Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 18:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Originally by: arbiter reborn i dont get how none of you seem to get the sac,but your loss
What's to get?
Give me a fit that is worth flying, that actually contributes something to a gang. I can't find one...
i only use it for solo tbh Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe |
Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 18:21:00 -
[25]
The Ship doesnt seem excel in gangs its a solo ship.
|
Hellfury Resurrected
Incura HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 18:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: arbiter reformed
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Originally by: arbiter reborn i dont get how none of you seem to get the sac,but your loss
What's to get?
Give me a fit that is worth flying, that actually contributes something to a gang. I can't find one...
i only use it for solo tbh
Explain to me how it's better than a Drake as a solo HAM platform. -------------------------------------------
|
Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 18:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Originally by: arbiter reborn i dont get how none of you seem to get the sac,but your loss
What's to get?
Give me a fit that is worth flying, that actually contributes something to a gang. I can't find one...
try solo hunt in sac and in your drake in low sec. The ammount of people you will get with a sac is much higher. Because ship a can defeat ship b in direct combat does not make ship A superior. A cycloen with AB and scrabmler can easily defeat a solo abaddon.. does make it superior? LOL NO!
|
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 19:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
try solo hunt in sac and in your drake in low sec. The ammount of people you will get with a sac is much higher. Because ship a can defeat ship b in direct combat does not make ship A superior. A cycloen with AB and scrabmler can easily defeat a solo abaddon.. does make it superior? LOL NO!
Quote: It's a solo ship
Seeing as I actually DO solo in low sec, here are the problems I have with the sac.
A) Cost - Disposable solo ships are the best solo ships. Good fights require taking risks which means that sometimes you're going to get blobbed, beaten, ecm'd or any number of other ways to lose a ship. I can lose, what, 3 or 4 BCs for every sac loss?
B) Dps/EHP/Tank - Solo is often about killing something before it's reinforcements get you hard tackled with scrams and webs or in splitting the fight up enough that you have the dps/ehp/rep to win each smaller fight. The sac is low EHP, low dps and mediocre rep capabilities. It takes TOO LONG to kill something in a sac OR if you have the dps to actually get something down in a reasonable amount of time, you don't have the tank/EHP to actually trade. Ie, if I have the dps to kill a cane before his friends have time to get in place, I don't have the tank to actually survive the cane and I certainly don't have the dps/rep/ehp to get the cane low as his buddy in a harb lands and then have the tank to finish the cane and kill the harb. Basically it doesn't have the mix of tank/gank to support engaging odds, which is what solo is about 90+% of the time.
C) Gate Guns - Forget engaging anything that has offensive weapons under gate guns.
D) Fight Quality - If I'm allowing myself to be engaged my scan res is a non-issue, same with when I accept 'bait'. Either way the opponent is going to be on grid long enough for me to lock them, because either they're the aggressor or they want me to aggress. Maybe this is different if you're pirating in it, but it does nothing for me to catch some 1 month old carebear ratting in low sec, it just isn't worth the sec loss for such a rubbish fight.
E) Running a camp - BCs are good enough. Since the web nerf I've run into 2 (!) camps that prevented my BC from getting a re-approach off. 2. And I regularly solo roam long distances through low sec and repeatedly enter high sec/low sec border gates. It's rare to see camps specialized and large enough to catch BCs who know what they're doing and don't want to be caught, rare enough that the tradeoff for a cruiser hull doesn't justify the loss of targets I get from using a cruiser, even a t2 one.
F) Catching faster stuff that wants to fight - I do this just fine in BCs. I catch vagas in drakes. EZ. More speed is nice, but I already am fast enough to accomplish my goals and I don't have to trade dps/ehp/tank to do this.
PERHAPs you can argue that the Sac does 0.0 better, where you need a faster hull to deal with bubble camps with inties (since inties can't deal with sentries for low sec camps) but I still think you're better off using a different cruiser hull. Curse, Vaga, Huginn, Ishtar all spring to mind as better solo 0.0 ships...
|
Rip Striker
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 22:06:00 -
[29]
If you want to use missiles and have a gang that armor tanks, go Sacrilege! Once you get missile skills you are close to the Cerberus, and possibly the Rook (not to mention the Drake, a pretty good battlecruiser).
In contrast to the Sacrilege, the three latter ships are shield tanked. What kind of tanking you have is of less concern when you solo, but can play a significant role in gangs.
450 dps (changable damage type) up to 20 km, 70k ehp buffer tank, tackle, cap stable, constitues in my book a pretty decent assault ship.
I say, go both Sacrilege and Zealot, both have their uses. You just need to figure what you want!
|
Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 22:39:00 -
[30]
What i do know about it is from engagments and bro's who fly it. The fact is yeah the drake is better than the sac in most cases. But this dude wants to know what the sac can excel at and i think we should focus on what it can do. Since the sac can solo better than it can operate in fleets his question is pretty much answered...
What about this setup gents? 35,000/ehp 500/dps 2000m/sec This a complete theory craft and i have never flown this ship!
[Sacrilege, Sacrilege/Shield] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x3
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |