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Italian Wedding
Soup Of The Day
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Posted - 2009.12.11 03:37:00 -
[1]
Firstly, no I have never been scammed in EVE...
Now, we all know how CCP loves to say "We endorse scamming. Scamming happening IRL and we think it 'adds to the depth' of the game yadda yadda".
Why they say this, who knows.
Scamming usually targets those who are new to the game, as those who have been playing for awhile know you can't go 10 seconds in Jita without someone advertising an obvious scam. When a new person gets scammed for everything they've worked for, they tend to get ****ed and the majority probably leave, because unlike almost all other MMO's, it takes a long time to achieve wealth in EVE legitimately. Scammers can be fresh to the game and make billions, it's not hard to scam the general majority of newer players.
What happens to banks caught scamming? They get billions in federal aid..oops...guess that's not a good comparison.
Bernie would be a better example.
In IRL, if you get caught scamming, you go to jail for a long time and are forced to give up everything you own to compensate those you scammed. All your bank accounts are tracked, you are watched for the rest of your life. You can not get away from it, ever (I personally know someone who got caught doing shadey business in wall street and he has never even been able to get a house or car loan since.)
In EVE, its very easy to either make another character or buy one with no scamming history and hide with the massive amounts of money you've made scamming, even if people have discovered you are a scammer, you can do it again and again behind different new/bought characters. There is no consequence to getting caught scamming in eve, none what-so-ever.
This whole "we endorse scamming" thing needs to stop. People aren't going to leave the game because they can't scam people anymore, no matter how much noise they make. People leave when they get scammed.
It's time to start policing scammers and stopping it. Once the first few scammers are punished the amount of scamming will drop dramatically (probably an understatement), and if it doesn't, hey, they have to buy new accounts if they get banned, which is $$$ for you, win/win situation here.
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Jenna Sol
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Posted - 2009.12.11 03:54:00 -
[2]
Yeah and you will wonder why the petition response time doubles or triples.
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DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2009.12.11 03:58:00 -
[3]
the scamm is supported by macros to reach his optimal suckage and ccp loves suckage......and RLTs will scamm too resale it to other players but scamming with simple contract lieing has nothing to do with sandbox effect or deep of the game but ccp is not so fast with thinking i guess the will need some years more to realise this
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Misanthra
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Posted - 2009.12.11 04:08:00 -
[4]
scamming apart of the game....we'll call it market pirating. Difference is...this you can control. Takes all but 3 seconds to see if a CNR contract has a CNR actually in it. BP's, too lazy to see it says copy and not original in actual item info, fool and his money...
Dumb enough to do direct trades and fall prey to the last minute value change bug...live and learn. There is a contract system and even a contract skill to learn that kills this expolit quite nicely.
Eve 101...little bit of paranoia is a very good thing lol
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grazer gin
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Posted - 2009.12.11 04:49:00 -
[5]
Why
scamming is what makes eve different from other games if people are so dumb they fall for it they deserve everything they get if they dont like it thats tough isnt it eve isnt going to get any easier for them
also eve isnt real life dont you get this eve is a game NOT real life
if you dont like jita local minimize it if people use there brain and take time to read they wont get scammed you wouldn't be here crying about n doubt getting scammed crying your eyes out to change eve for the worst its already too safe we dont need it idiot proof
ps. i can read just fine before you ask just because you say you have never been scammed dosn't make it true
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Svetdana
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Posted - 2009.12.11 04:58:00 -
[6]
Scams in game can help prepare people for "real life". All the same scams are out there. If it sounds too good to be true, guess what people, it is! (a scam) better to learn from a game than in real life
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Quazal Atreides
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.12.11 23:32:00 -
[7]
ok having seen both side of fences.
There is a shred of bonus for this. What i would like to see changed is simply not allowed to scam plexes..
Reason : The plex is a product of game time card which in turn is a product of someone having bought that card with real money. not pixelated in game money but their hard earned cash.. This too me seems wrong...
All other forms of scamming is fair game.. i mean geez if you sell you CNR for 580isk and you can't tell difference between 580 & 580,000,000 then sorry but get the hell out of the game because your not going to survive .
To be honest most people who have been scammed will often convo/evemail the toon and say fair play.
Finally how is scamming different to corp theft, high sec ganking, 10 v 1 gate camping..... it all boils down to the person being scammed/rob/killed being careful, if you aint then your in trouble from start.
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Grarr Wrexx
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Posted - 2009.12.11 23:37:00 -
[8]
You're not allowed to scam GTC's, but you are allowed to scam plexes. They are ingame items and will be treated as such.
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2009.12.12 00:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Misanthra Dumb enough to do direct trades and fall prey to the last minute value change bug...live and learn. There is a contract system and even a contract skill to learn that kills this exploit quite nicely.
I could agree about the rest, but this is just wrong. If there's functionality in the game, it must work properly (and, ideally, in as predictable way as possible). Saying "losing stuff due to bugs is ok because Eve is a harsh place" is bull****. You may not be able to trust players, but you shouldn't be griefed by your own UI.
That said, i heard that bug has actually been fixed. Never tried to pull that off though, so can't check. ____________________________________________________________________ Pesets - Russian for 'polar wolf'. Pronounced like 'presets' without the 'r'. |
Jakooni
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.12.12 00:59:00 -
[10]
I would take the 15 minutes to type a postnaught with well-outlined rebuttals to your statements, but I can see that you're just trolling; instead, all I'm going to do is frown at you.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.12.12 01:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jakooni I would take the 15 minutes to type a postnaught with well-outlined rebuttals to your statements, but I can see that you're just trolling; instead, all I'm going to do is frown at you.
I concur.
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.12.12 11:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Grarr Wrexx You're not allowed to scam GTC's, but you are allowed to scam plexes. They are ingame items and will be treated as such.
Actually, you're not allowed to scam plexes either. Selling them at a stupid price doesn't count as scamming, however.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Allahs Warrior
Gallente Reverse Psychology.
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Posted - 2009.12.12 12:05:00 -
[13]
this is a player run universe. Crime is part of any universe. There is no player run government to stop the scamming, so scamming happens. You want scamming to stop? You police against it...once we can PVP people in stations.
That reminds me. Once people can walk in stations, let's have the only people who can talk in local be people that are killable. That way we can all beat up scammers.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.12.12 12:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Pesets
Originally by: Misanthra Dumb enough to do direct trades and fall prey to the last minute value change bug...live and learn. There is a contract system and even a contract skill to learn that kills this exploit quite nicely.
I could agree about the rest, but this is just wrong. If there's functionality in the game, it must work properly (and, ideally, in as predictable way as possible). Saying "losing stuff due to bugs is ok because Eve is a harsh place" is bull****. You may not be able to trust players, but you shouldn't be griefed by your own UI.
Sums things up pretty nicely. Scamming is all good as long as it is for in-game items only and is done through properly working game mechanics. CCPs policy on the issue as a whole seems to be very good actually.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.12 12:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: "CCP Wrangler"
Quote: EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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well mannered ****ole |
Dr Karsun
Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.12 19:52:00 -
[16]
Well, you do have a point when it comes to getting punished in the real world for scamming, but you have to see that:
IRL when you get scammed in a way, you have to prove it in court. It's not a fast thing. You need to gather evidence, you need to write papers to the police and court. If it's a more complex scam it takes ages even IRL to prove it. Courts and police make mistakes, can be stupid like hell. I lost my drivers license one and a half month ago because I was sleepy and passed the patrol car without noticing, when they lit the light I pulled over (550 meters further, counted that). I got my drivers license REVOKED for that. I was a driver without a single ticket for 3 years, not even a parking ticket. Now I'm waiting 2 more months for a trial to get it back.
If you'd like to spend 3 months of time waiting to get you 100-200-500m that you got scammed, write all those papers, etc... And PAY all the fees for filing all the complaints and waste time to write to the police that this must be some mistake... IF you really want to go threw ALL that... Well, I'm sure we could make a HC (high court) made of players. The GMs maybe could give it some power.
But watch out, if you CAN'T prove and you field a law suit, then you pay all the costs of a trial. For now in my trial I'm paying all the stupid costs because I find it personally appaling that a police officer was rude and acting like an idiot. In in-game cases it'd look the same.
But IF you'd like a code written down, I'd gladly do it for a certain fee, then for a certain monthly fee I could work as a judge, but I warn you, trials would take months. Or years... Some trials take YEARS because there is no time judge and both sides can meet. How about that? Avoiding court is typical in all countries in the world.
There is NO way you can implement fighting with scams as IRL.
On the other hand... The GMs could just view a contract, see that it lost three zeros to normal price and re-do what happened. But no gm or ccp would like such an easy solution.
Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
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Creedeth
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Posted - 2009.12.14 22:19:00 -
[17]
Atleast prevent the renaming of contracts.
Because I can agree. Selling a car for the same price as a new car is not illegal for as long as you do not claim the car to be anything else then what it is.
"I want to sell you this 1966 car, it runs smoothly almost like new" for only $9.995 Someone might be stupid enough to buy the old car, but its still a valid sell.
However if you do this "Buy this brand new car for $9.995" and then deliver a old car that isnt worth as much, its a scam and you get fudged for it.
Simple solution. Dont let people change the names on contracts. Then a Raven can never be sold as "Raven Navy Issue" or "Hobgoblin I Blueprint" can not be sold as "Hobgoblin II Blueprint".
Not a perfect solution, but its a bit on the way. People can still change the name when you link them, but it will be more clear that is a scam, and they should not appear when you specifically search for a certain type of module in the contracts. Today when you search for a "Raven Navy Issue" all the re-named scam ones also show up forcing you to open each one and look at the content carefully.
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Misanthra
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Posted - 2009.12.14 23:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Creedeth Atleast prevent the renaming of contracts.
Simple solution. Dont let people change the names on contracts. Then a Raven can never be sold as "Raven Navy Issue" or "Hobgoblin I Blueprint" can not be sold as "Hobgoblin II Blueprint".
Not a perfect solution, but its a bit on the way. People can still change the name when you link them, but it will be more clear that is a scam, and they should not appear when you specifically search for a certain type of module in the contracts. Today when you search for a "Raven Navy Issue" all the re-named scam ones also show up forcing you to open each one and look at the content carefully.
There goes half the fun of jita local. Personally I like the mild surprise Of seeing a contract with the actual item in it. Lets be honest jita a boring system, you got this or the ganks to entertain you on trips there.
And call me jaded, but if looking to throw down 500+ mil on ship, if opening the contract is a burden...you deserve to lose your money lol. Want care free faction buying...earn lp's. No scams in the lp stores.
Reselling contract items a decent occassional side isk maker for me, not seeing the hardship (and I look at contracts for hours some nights when mining or ship spinning waiting for an op).
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.12.15 00:46:00 -
[19]
Thumbs down.
The only reason I started playing eve was that (unlike other MMOs) scamming and backstabbing are encouraged.
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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