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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kaylee Juuna
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:12:00 -
[1]
Jagex had a problem with macros in Runescape, so they implemented what they called 'random events'. Activities in the game that would be extremely hard for a macro programmer to deal with, but relatively easy for a human player to complete.
What activities could be used in EVE? I don't know. I'm just wondering if something like that could be used at all in EVE.
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Nietor
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:33:00 -
[2]
Yeah, Runescape's system is pretty decent actually. Click this, click that, talk to the guy, get some prize and back to playing.
The only problem I could see with it is in Runescape, you get taken to an 'instanced' area to do this... so eve would have to come up with something a little different. I don't think it would be too difficult tho. Maybe a random "box" of letters/numbers appears on the screen in a random order and you have to click one. Only hard part with that is, it would have to not be computer readable... so like a captcha or whatever you call those things. Otherwise the macro programs could easily read and select the appropriate answer... :(
It could work, with some effort on the programming side of things tho.
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Rolk Anderson
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:34:00 -
[3]
It could be ok if it making repetitive tasks such as mining more interesting. And it would have to be much more interesting as AFK mining would no longer be an option.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:40:00 -
[4]
Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.12.10 23:27:00 -
[5]
From the little exposure I have to Runescape I can say their anti-macro system is horrible.
No I don't want to be forced to play ridiculous mini-games every cycle when mining.
Runescape was in a position where their game was stupid and required a lot of pointless grinding. This brought up a lot of demand for macros, while how the game worked made it easier then it is with Eve. Runescapes anti-macro measures are an after-thought response to the high macro demand created by being a **** game.
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Callista Sincera
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.10 23:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nietor Maybe a random "box" of letters/numbers appears on the screen in a random order and you have to click one. Only hard part with that is, it would have to not be computer readable... so like a captcha or whatever you call those things. Otherwise the macro programs could easily read and select the appropriate answer... :(
Seriously, that's like a dentist giving his patient some spearmint against rotten teath. Sure, the smell is gone but the problem is still there.
If you want to fix macromining (what else is there to macro?) you will have to fix mining. Yes, some people enjoy the 5 minutes of doing nothing between strip miner cycles and no, you don't have to completely ruin their "experience". Compromise!
- Have miners make semi-intelligent decisions about their target to keep good mining yields. An example would be to add lots of small roids between the large rocks. Make them visually easy to identify, so people aren't forced into using the scanner if they haven't previously done so. Macros that just pick the first target in the overview will immediately get little to no yield because tons of 100 veldspar roids are being targeted for 5 minutes of total overkill each. Instead of with a full cargohold, they'll dock with 600 veldspar.
- Add additional incentives for miners to slightly increase their yield above what's currently possible. People that enjoy 5 minutes of bzzzz....bzzzzzz.....bzzzzz can still go on doing their mining like that, but everyone else can do something in those 5 minutes to increase their yield a bit. Say, target specific locations on a roid or whatever. This might also help focus miners attention on the game. Right now, you can hardly blame them for not paying attention to what's happening around them all the time (like suiciders usually do for some reason, ignoring the fact that it's not humanly possible to pay attention while doing nothing but listening to bzzzz....bzzzzzz.....bzzzzz... doing his thing with the roids for hours).
- Come up with more stuff. That's what CCP has gamedesigners for. -
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Direstorm
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Posted - 2009.12.11 00:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Direstorm on 11/12/2009 00:04:04 How about having rocks drop a wreck, with salvageable ore tailings--or those thingies drones drop(Lucent/w/e)? Make them refine into minute quantities of rarer, more expensive minerals--ie, mine 10000m3 of veldspar, get some isogen as a bonus drop.
Then you introduce a new creature-the mining salvage ninja! The entire ecosystem of eve changes slightly as a result.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.11 00:22:00 -
[8]
Callista Sincera, i seriously wait for comet and ring mining. where CCP stated it should not be able to macro that. will be interesting to see what comes out of that.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.12.11 00:56:00 -
[9]
Also..... The so called anti-macro features of Runescape created more enjoyment for macro writers, it became a bit of a challenge and more macros are writen simply because people want to see if they can.
1. The ****ty game-play created demand for macros. 2. The anti-macro features created fun/interest/enjoyment for macro writers. 3. More macros even after making the game ridiculously crap.
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.12.11 00:57:00 -
[10]
I know nothing about Runescape except I found it unappealing.
But from other MMO I can tell you that some box with some silly test, popping out at random time, preferably when soloing boss, is not just irritating and dangerous but also insulting.
Also, if you can make some minigame impossible to macro, why not make the whole game more engaging. In the end the whole idea seems more geared towards making macros more costly to develop, which could indeed work for less popular games.
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Professor Jinmei
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Posted - 2009.12.11 05:39:00 -
[11]
You will not believe this, but recent MMOs coming out in Korea are actually offering built-in 'auto-hunting' and 'auto-resource gathering (mining, herbal, whatever)' as their MAIN FEATURE. I threw up when I heard this...
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illford baker
Pilots of Damnation death from above..
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Posted - 2009.12.11 05:48:00 -
[12]
ccp did a good job of banning macroers. (see unholy rage)
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Rhonnen
Arctic Flying Penguins Consortium.
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Posted - 2009.12.11 05:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Professor Jinmei You will not believe this, but recent MMOs coming out in Korea are actually offering built-in 'auto-hunting' and 'auto-resource gathering (mining, herbal, whatever)' as their MAIN FEATURE. I threw up when I heard this...
WOW!!! A game that plays its self!
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Agent Known
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Posted - 2009.12.11 06:46:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Agent Known on 11/12/2009 06:46:55 General rule: If macros are created to do something in the game, then that activity in the game is too boring and needs fixing. Now you know why RuneScape in particular has lots of macros. On another note, I also have an annoying sig.
inaftertimeflux |
Zjanu Hiroki
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Posted - 2009.12.11 07:08:00 -
[15]
For lulz, at random ore remaining levels for each rock, your laser can start hit a vein of volatile material.
The only way you can you can tell, is an audible change to your mining laser tone (which is also random).
You need to activate a filter module on the mining laser to discard the volatile material, or once you have mined enough of it (I dunnow, 5-10 secs of volatile material, it explodes in your hold and starts a reaction reducing your ship to ganked wreck)
If you activate the filter while mining non-volatile ore, it inverts your laser optics to hunt for a volatile vein, causing you to explode as above.
Basically, make the macro coders have to deal with random audio analysis.
Low end mining lasers could be exempt from the filter, for new guys etc.. highend pilots would need to have audio on and not be afk... (ice included)
I enjoy mining.. and earned my hulk.. I enjoy making stuff for friends with rocks I have mined. Soon I will enjoy some PVP stuff and get blown up a lot. I enjoy finally being able to afford something, try something new from 'work' in the game.
What I don't like is someone asleep while they just make isks.. (and can impact on cool people just for being asleep)
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Carine Parnasse
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Posted - 2009.12.11 10:18:00 -
[16]
Quote: The only way you can you can tell, is an audible change to your mining laser tone (which is also random).
You have sound turned on in eve? :O
And it doesnt need to be that hard for the macros, they could just delete all sounds from eve except "Press X not to die", its not like they need sound for anything else.
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Shas Shadow
Caldari 3LITE. Emergence.
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Posted - 2009.12.11 11:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zjanu Hiroki Edited by: Zjanu Hiroki on 11/12/2009 07:22:26
For lulz, at random ore remaining levels for each rock, your laser can start hit a vein of volatile material.
The only way you can you can tell, is an audible change to your mining laser tone (which is also random).
You need to activate a filter module on the mining laser to discard the volatile material, or once you have mined enough of it (I dunnow, 5-10 secs of volatile material, it explodes in your hold and starts a reaction reducing your ship to ganked wreck)
If you activate the filter while mining non-volatile ore, it inverts your laser optics to hunt for a volatile vein, causing you to explode as above.
Basically, make the macro coders have to deal with random audio analysis.
Low end mining lasers could be exempt from the filter, for new guys etc.. highend pilots would need to have audio on and not be afk... (ice included)
I enjoy mining.. and earned my hulk.. I enjoy making stuff for friends with rocks I have mined. Soon I will enjoy some PVP stuff and get blown up a lot. I enjoy finally being able to afford something, try something new from 'work' in the game.
What I don't like is someone asleep while they just make isks.. (and can impact on cool people just for being asleep)
It wouldn't be good for hearing impaired miners tho :(
Honestly, i would never ever mine again if that would happen, losing hulks every 5 minutes is not considered lucrative. Caldari FTW lol |
Grideris
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Posted - 2009.12.11 13:50:00 -
[18]
Well whatever they do, I do hope they add some more activity to mining of some kind. While I also dislike the idea of burning through a hulk a minute, maybe you would just loose the contents of the cycle as the mining laser enters an emergency shut-down to prevent catastrophic damage to your ship.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.11 18:03:00 -
[19]
I think the random tone thing is headed in the right direction but falls a bit short.
A visual test might be more fair (especially for those who don't use sound) and more resistant to macros.
Lets say that as the mining lasers dig deeper into an asteroid, the orientation of the ore veins changes. This makes a visual inspection of the asteroid necessary.
It would work much like those squiggly letters you have to type into a box for access to some forums.
The player would have to look for a pattern in the ore veins visible on the surface of the asteroid and direct the laser in the direction the pattern points to. For every asteroid the colors could be different so a macro would have trouble.
Choosing well two ore more times in a row could result in accelerated mining, Choosing poorly could result in nothing but worthless rock mined for several cycles.
Colonies and Capitals |
Malk Ovic
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Posted - 2009.12.11 22:02:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Malk Ovic on 11/12/2009 22:03:37
Originally by: Carine Parnasse
You have sound turned on in eve? :O
And it doesnt need to be that hard for the macros, they could just delete all sounds from eve except "Press X not to die", its not like they need sound for anything else.
I do have sound on. The warning you would need to listen for would be a random change to the way your lasers sound, not an extra tone that could be picked up by a macro easily.
Originally by: Shas Shadow
Honestly, i would never ever mine again if that would happen, losing hulks every 5 minutes is not considered lucrative.
Perhaps the hulk blowing up is overdone :D, as Grideris suggested, lose the cycle.. I'd like to see the ore in your hold go boom. Or your laser modules could be destroyed to prevent keeping your macro'ed ore safe in a jetcan. Something that makes macro mining return very little reward, and doesn't hurt you too much if weren't macroing and was just getting the pizza out of the oven.
I think the audio test does suck for those that don't want to have sound on.. and is seriously flawed for those players who are hearing impaired. It will have to be some sort of visual test I think.
Trent's idea is interesting.. and something a little 'extra' to do while mining :)
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Kaylee Juuna
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Posted - 2009.12.12 01:21:00 -
[21]
So the general consensus is "Yes, it's possible."
The ideas suggested so far are... diamonds in the rough. An anti-macro system is going to take a lot more than just a few hours of discussion.
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Direstorm
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Posted - 2009.12.12 01:31:00 -
[22]
There are two ways to deal with any problem: the carrot and the stick. You guys are applying liberal use of the stick. Let's hear some more carrot ideas!
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Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.12.12 02:22:00 -
[23]
I'd like to assign all those lazy bums called "CSM people" to become the newly made "Anti-macro hunters", which involves manually searching and destroying (and banning) macros.
Come on CSM, do something that involves other than sitting behind a desk.. virtually.
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