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Kithran
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Posted - 2009.12.09 09:00:00 -
[1]
Some people with longer memories may remember me making similar posts in the past when I went into my first cruiser and my first battlecruiser. This time I'm planning to upsize to a battleship so I'm back looking for fittings.
I'm looking for advice for fitting a high sec lvl 4 mission running Machariel. I don't currently have the skills to fly one (will be a few months on that front) but I'm planning ahead.
I currently fly a Hurricane for lvl 4 missions and can do pretty much all of them (Vengence is the only one I definitely can't do - Hobark Moon's tank is too much for my dps).
I'm looking at the Mach as it strikes me I should be able to use it as basically an oversized cane and I like the cane, it just takes too long on some lvl 4s (tried Mords Headhunters last night and some wrecks had gone by the time I finished).
My current Hurricane fit is as follows:
[Low] Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Gyrostabilizer II Medium Armor Repairer II Gyrostabilizer II [Mid] Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners Cap Recharger II Optical Tracking Computer I,Optimal Range Optical Tracking Computer I,Tracking Speed [High] Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I,Fusion M 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I,Fusion M 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I,Fusion M 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I,Fusion M 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I,Fusion M 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I,Fusion M [Rigs] Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I [Drones] Hobgoblin II,5 [Implants] Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co 'Gunslinger' MX-2 Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co 'Gunslinger' CX-2
I have no missile skills thus the salvager/tractor combo in the non-turret highs - this means the extra time to fully salvage a mission tends to be the time taken to warp to the jet cans of loot I've compiled while killing everything.
I can use T2 armour or shield tanks and obviously switch hardeners depending on mission. I can also use T2 light and medium drones.
I am open to either an Artillery or AutoCannon fit for the Mach. I am open to either an armour or shield tank (though if the latter would perfer to include a DCU) as long as its still fast (i.e. I would like an AB in the fit and lots of plates/trimarks etc aren't my cup of tea).
I am open to some/all faction fit for the mids and lows though no more than about 60 mil per module on average, no one more than about 300 mil (not hard numbers, just to give an idea). Don't bother with Faction for the guns - I plan on having the skills for T2 within a month or so of getting in the Mach so I don't feel its worth spending there.
Cheers
Kithran
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.12.09 09:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dursun Idris on 09/12/2009 09:34:06 First thing, machariel is one of the best gunships in eve, with it's high faloff ac's.
Plus, it have nearly same agility and speed with your cane.
But there are few things you MUST have before getting on a machariel.
Gallante/Matar bs 4 to START WITH. i recommend having 5 at each.
t2 large guns. There is nothing called "too much falloff". Every point increases your actual dps especially at longer ranges. Ah, and traj analysis (or something called that) 5 will be good, too.
GOOD shield tank skills. dont let 7 lows fool you, they are here for your weapon upgrade modules (i suggest 3x gyro and 3x track enh, faction if possible and a damage control)
AB. A good one. X-type is highly recommended. dont go cheap with it.
Drone skills - not mandatory. but frigs got in more than 20km's are pain in the arse. Use light drones becouse they are faster than others, they will get to target faster and do more dps. Plus they can track frigs much better.
Do not bother with arties AC faloff will give you enough range for most cases.
Caldari/dread guristas invul. - Mandatory in my opinion.
faction or b -type (the %41.5 one) shield boost amps. med a-type (220+boost one) or at least b-type large booster.
t2 shield tanking rigs (optional) - they are cheap and effective - drawback is not that lethal.
t2 proj rigs (optional) - ambits are good but usually track enh do the job. i prefer having 2 ccc with a shield rig.
In my opinion, it's best BS in the game. But it's not a Volvo, it's a porshe. So you better sure you got right skills to ride that beast before getting into it.
Note: edited with few more details.
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Sayouti
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 09:57:00 -
[3]
Just a comment on your Cane fit - for scripted modules (i.e. the tracking computers) you're better off leaving them both unscripted than scripting 2 for the alternate attributes.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.09 09:59:00 -
[4]
Do not touch a machariel until you have both BS skills at V and T2 guns with nearly maxed skills (around 10M sp on gunnery alone).
Also if you want to run level 4 Vargur > machariel.
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Ecky X
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 10:01:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ecky X on 09/12/2009 10:01:58 I would fit a Mach with somethink like the following:
[Machariel, missions] 3x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer 3x Tracking Enhancer II True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Domination 100MN Afterburner Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster 2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Shield Boost Amplifier II
7x 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I
3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
5x Warrior II, 4x Berserker II
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You could get away with T1 autocannons, since you'll rarely need barrage with 70km of falloff, but the faction shield tank is a requirement. Play around with hardeners and find what works best for you.. but you'll almost certainly need a Gist booster to make this setup work.
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.12.09 10:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dursun Idris on 09/12/2009 10:09:35
Originally by: Seishi Maru Do not touch a machariel until you have both BS skills at V and T2 guns with nearly maxed skills (around 10M sp on gunnery alone).
Also if you want to run level 4 Vargur > machariel.
I don't own a vargur, but according eft results (plus dps graphs on moving targets) i find machariel better for missions. Yes vargur have much better tank but machariel do it fine as vargur, thanks to it's higher speed.
On second note, yes tractor beam and salv is sweet, but it have far less profit than it was before so i usually don't bother with it.
Originally by: Ecky X Edited by: Ecky X on 09/12/2009 10:01:58
7x 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I
Ahem.. avoid using faction ammo against anything less than a player.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.09 10:16:00 -
[7]
Superior tracking, superior cargo hold and salvagers/tractors for looting (is still about 20% of income).
And the massive tank means you can full agro the room from instant zero, allowing you to save time (specially against angels and serpentis that approach you once they are active). The time difference between a cautious run of level 4and an agressive full agro triggering can be very relevant on final income.
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Ecky X
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 10:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dursun Idris Ahem.. avoid using faction ammo against anything less than a player.
I'll admit, I don't run very many missions, but I do have some thoughts on this.
I certainly wouldn't use faction ammo in D425's, but I bet the 20% increased dps more than offsets the cost, with the slow(ish) RoF and the high damage mod of 800mm ACs. Certainly it would be cost-effective in artillery.
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Katabrok First
Caldari Apukaray Security
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Posted - 2009.12.09 10:36:00 -
[9]
This is my current set up, i've done even AE bonus room in it. It is an awesome ship.
[Machariel, Angels - AC] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Mizuro's Modified Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II
Core A-Type 100MN Afterburner Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster Explosion Dampening Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
But you have to remember that you should have good skills to fly it, otherwise you might lost it really fast. For comparison, these are my skills.
Kata
Uma vez flamengo, sempre flamengo. |
Kithran
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Posted - 2009.12.09 12:31:00 -
[10]
Thanks for the replies so far, just the sort of thing I was looking for.
Skillwise I won't be getting in the Mach until I have Minmatar & Gallente BS to IV. The only skills I lack on the shield tanking front are shield management V and a decent shield compensation (only II atm but will be taking it to IV before getting in the Mach). I'll also have trajectory analysis III (and IV soon after).
Drone wise I can field TII lights and mediums already - was thinking a flight of Hammerhead IIs, a flight of Hobgoblin IIs, a flight of Warrior IIs and a flight of Hornet EC-200s.
With regards to the comment on the tracking computers on my current cane fit tracking computers are stacking nerfed so surely having one of each script means you actually get better performance than leaving them both without scripts? Certainly this is the case in EFT though I haven't tried in game yet.
With regards to hardeners is it worth going the rat specific hardener route or two invulnerability fields? I use rat specific on my cane but used to use EANMs on my rupture?.
Cheers
Kithran
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Kithran
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Posted - 2009.12.09 22:57:00 -
[11]
Bump to see if I can get comments from people in a different TZ
Kithran
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.09 23:24:00 -
[12]
Save your Isk. Use a Maelstrom while you finish off some important lvl 5 skills. The Mael has excellent range, truly amazing tank and unbelievable alpha to rip through level 4's with ease. Drones take care of the small stuff. Comeback in a salvage boat or use an alt.
Chances are you will make some mistakes while you get comfortable with battleship capabilities and its better to lose a fully insured maelstrom than a very expensive Mach.
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Moir Mukkula
Minmatar GREY COUNCIL THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2009.12.09 23:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sayouti Just a comment on your Cane fit - for scripted modules (i.e. the tracking computers) you're better off leaving them both unscripted than scripting 2 for the alternate attributes.
Eh, no?
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Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 23:46:00 -
[14]
Just make sure you can fit it fully T2 and have both BS skills to 4/5 before you take it out.
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slightly sillydude
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Posted - 2009.12.10 03:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sayouti Just a comment on your Cane fit - for scripted modules (i.e. the tracking computers) you're better off leaving them both unscripted than scripting 2 for the alternate attributes.
I would have though that if they are unscripted they stack nerf with each other, whereas if they are scripted for different things you avoid that.
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Leiara Knight
Gallente The Oblivion Guard
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Posted - 2009.12.10 04:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: slightly sillydude
Originally by: Sayouti Just a comment on your Cane fit - for scripted modules (i.e. the tracking computers) you're better off leaving them both unscripted than scripting 2 for the alternate attributes.
I would have though that if they are unscripted they stack nerf with each other, whereas if they are scripted for different things you avoid that.
It's easy to test for yourself.
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Ignitious Hellfury
Minmatar Republic Military Skool HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.10 04:37:00 -
[17]
ITT:
ebayer - isk > brains
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.10 05:17:00 -
[18]
[Machariel, L4 deadspace Large] Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer
Domination 100MN Afterburner Gist B-Type Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L [empty high slot]
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Before anyone bashes on 4 damage mods, that 4th gyro adds 50 DPS, and the tank perma runs with the AB off and will handle the AE bonus room. However, you really need a lot of SP for this ship to perform well. This also reeks of someone who is buying isk.
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2009.12.10 08:35:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dors Venabily on 10/12/2009 08:37:01
Originally by: Ignitious Hellfury ITT:
ebayer - isk > brains
Soo everyone that saved up for a faction bship and is asking for a fit before he takes it out so he doesn't **** up and loose it must have bought the isk on ebay. Riiight
Its not 2005 anymore. Isk is available even to newer folks.
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Kithran
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Posted - 2009.12.10 10:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dors Venabily Edited by: Dors Venabily on 10/12/2009 08:37:01
Originally by: Ignitious Hellfury ITT:
ebayer - isk > brains
Soo everyone that saved up for a faction bship and is asking for a fit before he takes it out so he doesn't **** up and loose it must have bought the isk on ebay. Riiight
Its not 2005 anymore. Isk is available even to newer folks.
Indeed - I am not planning on even getting into a Mach for 3 months or so, however if I am going to avoid paying over the odds for faction mods I want to start picking them up from now whenever I can get a good deal. Before I can do that I need to know what I want to get.
It looks like I'll probably go for a DCUII, 3 Republic Fleet/Domination Gyros and 3 Republic Fleet/Domination Tracking Enhancers on the lows. (As far as I can see Republic Fleet and Domination have the same stats and I've already got one Dom Gyro from exploration).
The bit I'm still uncertain on is the mids - I'm not an isk buyer so the 1 bil plus Pith A medium booster is out of my reach.
I'll probably go for a 100MN Rep Fleet AB - can probably get most of the republic fleet modules with LP as well as maybe a Cal Navy invuln or two.
Kithran
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Ecky X
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.10 10:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kithran
Domination/RF tracking enhancer has only 0.5% tracking over T2, probably not worth the isk - unless you're trying to save CPU.
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TimMc
Gallente Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:57:00 -
[22]
OP you should stop wasting money and just fit a nicely fitted Maelstrom.
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Birdman Ravo
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:24:00 -
[23]
My advice: Don't fly a Machariel. Not yet. Fly something cheaper, easier to fit, and requiring much fewer skill points until you can fly the Mach properly.
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Muaina Naura
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Posted - 2009.12.10 16:33:00 -
[24]
What is the benefit of using ccc rigs over semiconductor memory cells?
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.10 16:57:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 10/12/2009 16:57:18 I got an advice for a new BS pilot: Don't jump into a faction BS before you can handle a T1 :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
rodensteiner
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.12.10 17:42:00 -
[26]
Now, I don't run missions and don't know what it takes to tank Angel's Extra. bonus room, but when I plug that deadspace Macharial fit into EFT, it tells me 374dps Omni Defense. That strikes me as being incredibly low. Or is that really all that it takes to tank AE Bonus, which I hear is one of the hardest, if not the hardest L4 mission event?
I'm assuming you'd have to be careful what you aggro, and the dps output of the ship would help kill most stuff before it can get close enough to you to really hurt.
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I'm horrible at PVP |
KardelSharpeye
Gallente Totally Abstract O X I D E
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Posted - 2009.12.10 18:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Seishi Maru Do not touch a machariel until you have both BS skills at V and T2 guns with nearly maxed skills (around 10M sp on gunnery alone).
What a horrible advice so he should just use a cane for 3-4 months or sit in a station? Its not pvp where its unwise to take something so expensive without proper skills all you need is enough tank and all the dps you can get and the mach has got the dps.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.10 19:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: KardelSharpeye
Originally by: Seishi Maru Do not touch a machariel until you have both BS skills at V and T2 guns with nearly maxed skills (around 10M sp on gunnery alone).
What a horrible advice so he should just use a cane for 3-4 months or sit in a station? Its not pvp where its unwise to take something so expensive without proper skills all you need is enough tank and all the dps you can get and the mach has got the dps.
there is somethign called maesltrom to use while that.
And he won get benneffits engouh from the ship before that. not enoguh tooffset the HIGH risk of loosign such a ship with low SP.
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Kithran
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Posted - 2009.12.10 20:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: KardelSharpeye
Originally by: Seishi Maru Do not touch a machariel until you have both BS skills at V and T2 guns with nearly maxed skills (around 10M sp on gunnery alone).
What a horrible advice so he should just use a cane for 3-4 months or sit in a station? Its not pvp where its unwise to take something so expensive without proper skills all you need is enough tank and all the dps you can get and the mach has got the dps.
there is somethign called maesltrom to use while that.
And he won get benneffits engouh from the ship before that. not enoguh tooffset the HIGH risk of loosign such a ship with low SP.
What skills do you consider required before getting in the Mach?
I already have the following:
Drones V Scout Drone Operation V Electronics V Electronic Upgrades V Energy Management V Energy Systems Operation V Engineering V Shield Management IV Shield Operation V Tactical Shield Manipulation IV Gunnery V Motion Prediction IV Rapid Fire IV Hull Upgrades V Mechanic V Repair IV Afterburner IV Fuel Conservation IV Navigation IV
And I've already stated I'll be getting the two BS skills to IV and Large Projectiles to IV before I'm even thinking about getting in the Mach.
Kithran
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Nocts
Minmatar Nova Aquilae Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.12.10 20:11:00 -
[30]
Quote: This also reeks of someone who is buying isk.
Or people who buy GTCs to obtain ISK, legitimately. ---------
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