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Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:44:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Redart
I enjoy running missions
oh I'm sorry, I thought you were being serious. ------
back from 90day forum ban. |
Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:46:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Daemonspirit Bottom line is that people who want to be in PC's are, people who don't want to be, aren't. And probably wont' be.
Of course they won't, since ignorance is a hard thing to remove. So attacking the unwillingness is an easier way to remove the ignorance, rather than doing it the other way around. The result is much the same.
Quote: Don't you have some PL towers to kill... oh yeah, you are, because its so exciting that your spending your time on the forums while you do it...
See? There's that ignorance again. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Inumbikai
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:51:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If you're a casual player and play for, say 1 hr each day and make 20 mil on average, that'll be 600mil / months. So you actually pay only about 23 mil /month for beeing not wardeccabe.
HTFU
I almost just spit out my coffee! How the hell do you make 20mil in an hour???
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:53:00 -
[94]
How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
Originally by: Tirus Sinobi Your response has set your intelligence barrier so low that anything you post from here on that breaches it, will have to be considered posted by somebody else.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:05:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Inumbikai
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If you're a casual player and play for, say 1 hr each day and make 20 mil on average, that'll be 600mil / months. So you actually pay only about 23 mil /month for beeing not wardeccabe.
HTFU
I almost just spit out my coffee! How the hell do you make 20mil in an hour???
Idly running level 4s in hi-sec with about 5% of my attention will get me 25-30M/hr. I think you can make 20M doing level 3s if you work at it.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:56:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Inumbikai I almost just spit out my coffee! How the hell do you make 20mil in an hour???
You can easily make that much from doing level 4 missions.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:57:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/12/2009 20:58:48
Originally by: Inumbikai I almost just spit out my coffee! How the hell do you make 20mil in an hour???
20 mil per hour on average ? Oh, I guess by being LAZY (or under-skilled, or ill-equipped) while running L4s ? Or by blitzing L3s mainly for the storylines, after you also figure in storyline income ? I can think of a lot of half-decent things that could make you earn ONLY about 20 mil ISK/hour on average.
Now, talk about 50 mil ISK/hour on average, and there you might have a point, now that can be pretty tough in highsec PvE.
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:03:00 -
[98]
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: MaxxOmega I agree with the OP this is outrageous... er... ummm.... what's the problem again?
Funnily enough you've probably stumbled on the crux of the problem with this little bit of contemptuous sarcasm, and that's that most players don't seem to able to grasp the issue. They equate casual play with cowardly play and therefore feel justified in the endless ridicule. They can't understand that not everyone is a holidaying student with 12 hours a day to play the game, or that if they were they would even want to waste that much of there life on the game. They think casual players should be forced to PvP despite being at a distinct disadvantage due to the reduced play time and lack of experience that results. They and CCP forget that although the game has been created with epic corporation politics in mind the skill system is one of the most casual-player-friendly in existance which was always going to attract a large casual player base that I would think CCP would not want to upset.
The answer, as I've already stated along with many others, is to look at high-sec as the set-and-forget runs-by-itself boring beginner player area, then throw all their efforts, cool content, etc out into 0.0 accessable only to corporations. I can think of a million-buzillion ideas to coolerfy low-sec - surely CCP have brainstorming sessions to come up with ideas. Here's some:
- Impliment a mission builder, allowing corporations of a certain size to create their own missions - an answer to filling up the game with content in short time, and similar to the very popular map building developers of FPS games release. - Start to add unique effects in certain areas on the map in 0.0, tourist locations, areas prohibited to large fleets due to 'anomolies' similar to the Kessel Run in Star Wars etc - 0.0 mission arcs with video segways. - Distribute one of a kind items of limited power through the universe. - Impliment ways for casual players to fleet up, casually - something they have been doing and have done in this patch. - Never ever ever restrict a players freedom to do as he pleases in the universe, it ****s ppl off (joining militias restricts movement, and taxing NPC corps forces you to create pointless one man corps).
If you were that casual about the game a 3% tax on mission running wouldn't even register let alone prompt you to write long diatribes on the internet about it.
If this change wasn't a change but implemented from the start it would make sense to people and nobody would question it. Now people feel entitled to have wardec immunity for free.
There is NO freedom being impinged on at all. You can stay in NPC corps and pay the tiny fee for all that that entails or you can create your own corp or join another one. All options are viable. You were taxed before and your taxed now. One minor added extra tax in exchange for a service you've since been getting for free isn't freedom crushing in the least bit.
Try again.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:03:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Lady Spank How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
This. That was a rather low estimate on what can be made with lvl 4 missioin. See Kerfiras statistic (again) on what is possible to be earned on lvl 4 missions (up to 45 mil, which is ridiculous).
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Coch Draig
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:16:00 -
[100]
I was in a bar once, i approached someone and asked for casual play. All i got was a black eye. Tell you one thing for sure.... i won't be going there again!
Originally by: Zymurgist
Locked. Petitions are the only way to deal with this issue there is nothing the forums can help you with. Please stop opening multiple threads.
Zymurgist
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Dani SP
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:17:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Dani SP on 05/12/2009 22:18:09 OP fails at understanding game mechanics... oh well.
About the millions/hour discussion. Never actually calculated it as im just fine running missions. It's definitely more profitable than mining in highsec/lowsec.
But those calculations are considering the time wastages, or are just theorical numbers? Examples:
- time spent accepting mission - time spent fitting ship with correct resistances (and maybe browsing eve survival for checking) - time spent buying/moving ammunition - time spent setting a fleet with an alt or friend - warp times - afk wastage factor - time to switch fittings and/or salvage boat and rejumping acceleration gates - time hauling your loot for those extralarge valuable modules
most times I dont bother looting/salvage as killing stuff is a faster isk generator. Opportunity cost you know
now seriously, you know those times are spent in real life. So its not like multiplying the average rat bounty per number of rats you can theorically kill per hour.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:24:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Lady Spank How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
This. That was a rather low estimate on what can be made with lvl 4 missioin. See Kerfiras statistic (again) on what is possible to be earned on lvl 4 missions (up to 45 mil, which is ridiculous).
Edit: Being able to earn that much without any risk in empire ruins any other profession in EVE, btw. I'd like to hope CCP would at least nerf the drop rates of T1 mods in PvE - but I guess it won't happen.
TBH, I think CCP is too afraid to reduce L4 earnings, simply because so many of their players will be very angry about it. They can't increase the earnings in 0.0/low-sec significantly either because that'd create runaway inflation.
The gold-mine that are L4's is a major reason 0.0 is so empty these days, simply because the only thing people DO there is to fight (in blobs more often than not). That means there's very few targets for roaming gangs, meaning there ARE very few roaming gangs. Few people there also means there's little industry going on etc.
There was a time when people were REALLY living in 0.0, because ratting was the best type of income. People lived there, earned their money there, produced there, and hunted there! This, by and large, has been gone since L4's took the top position for money earning.
I think CCP's dev's know all this, but that their accountants and board are way too scared to lose a few customers to allow it to be changed
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Lord Xanthoh
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:26:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Lord Xanthoh on 05/12/2009 22:26:35
Originally by: Redart
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
Hey with today's downtime, you must have been losing another 50% of profits. Could I please have your stuffz?
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:28:00 -
[104]
Originally by: b1zz Link to the dev blog on the 11% NPC tax here.
Does not list exactly what it affects and what it does not affect.
The income sources that are affected by corp taxes are well know and easy to verify. You'll have to forgive them for not explaining the most fundamental parts of the game again.
Quote: The forum thread on the subject here.
Quoting CCP: # We would prefer that players join player corporations, or other entities that shape the world of EVE at a higher degree than the NPC corporations do, due to their impersonal and somewhat isolated role. That said, this change is not implemented to ôdestroyö NPC corps, they should be considered a small motivation to join a player corporation, where you can develop and flourish as a player.
Quoting me: # I would prefer not to play your game. Joining corps is not fun for everyone, or even most players.
Source please? Since the majority of people playing EVE are indeed in player corps, I would say that proves you are completely and utterly incorrect.
Quote: I don't like the tone of the above statement from CCP, it's not how I thought they operated.
There is nothing wrong with the "tone" of CCP's statement, and apparently thinking is not your strong point. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
isca
Gallente Cosmic Odyssey BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:48:00 -
[105]
Edited by: isca on 05/12/2009 22:48:19
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:39:31 Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
I have been on and off for almost 5yrs now. I have quit so many times and came back so many times, but it is this recent time that I actually really started to enjoy the game because I have not been bound by a corporation. I have been treating the game more as a hobby, than a game I have to play everyday.
I enjoy running missions and I enjoy trading station to station. Both of these are hurt severely by the NPC Corp tax. I do not want to be in a corp, between my 3 characters I have been in many corps and the game simply isn't for the casual player when you move into corps. There is no way around it. Especially trading, any % over normal tax is very painful since you are buying and selling for large quantities for much smaller profits than you put into it. 5% can take away ALL profit on what is considered to be good trades. You killed that, good job.
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
1. Who the hell are you to yell the odds and try to maintain your 0% tax/0% risk advantage over the rest of us? 2. Are you REALLY a 5 year old character? Because if you were you would know that taxes only affect mission rewards/bounties and have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on your income from trades. That is more down to your skill level in the 'trade' skillgroup you friggin n00b. 3. The excuses i have seen from ppl in this thread regarding being in Player Run corporations are blatant BS. If the CEO of the last PC you were in was a self-aggrandising ar5e then make your own corp ffs -or join a casual play based player corp... There's tons out there. 4. Stop whining and grow up. 5. Can i have your stuff?
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Ukucia
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:27:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Ukucia on 05/12/2009 23:29:37
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Redart I've joined player corps in the past with 2.5% tax and my trading went down exactly 2.5% on top of the normal tax minus the 1% per lvl of accounting.
No, it didn't. Stop lying. Or stop deluding yourself, whichever of these two applies. Your trading was NEVER affected by corp tax. Whatever it is you think you saw (if you saw anything), it WASN'T the corp tax.
Back in the old days, corp tax was applied to everything that made your wallet go up.
Having it apply to direct trades between players in station was kinda annoying.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:30:00 -
[107]
Petitioning to reintroduce the original pod grades
Originally by: Tirus Sinobi Your response has set your intelligence barrier so low that anything you post from here on that breaches it, will have to be considered posted by somebody else.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:35:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Kerfira TBH, I think CCP is too afraid to reduce L4 earnings, simply because so many of their players will be very angry about it. They can't increase the earnings in 0.0/low-sec significantly either because that'd create runaway inflation.
The gold-mine that are L4's is a major reason 0.0 is so empty these days, simply because the only thing people DO there is to fight (in blobs more often than not). That means there's very few targets for roaming gangs, meaning there ARE very few roaming gangs. Few people there also means there's little industry going on etc.
There was a time when people were REALLY living in 0.0, because ratting was the best type of income. People lived there, earned their money there, produced there, and hunted there! This, by and large, has been gone since L4's took the top position for money earning.
I think CCP's dev's know all this, but that their accountants and board are way too scared to lose a few customers to allow it to be changed
True that. But how to solve it? Big nerf is out of the question. The forums would explode. So nerfing the T1 drops a little bit (which would buff T1 manufacturing a bit), making the mission rats a little bit harder and buffing 0.0 income a little might, all in all, be step in the right direction.
Of course it would not slip unnoticed. But in the end, it's for the betterment of the game. It doesn't matter if a carebear earns 20 mil or 17 mil / per hour. He will pile up isk and not spend them for anything relevant, anyways.
And he will not stick to the game because he is only loyal to his isk, not to other people, a cause or anything worhtwhile. If ISK is all what keeps him, it's bound to not last.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:37:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Ukucia Back in the old days, corp tax was applied to everything that made your wallet go up.
Having it apply to direct trades between players in station was kinda annoying.
When was that? In beta?
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Klendaxor
Caldari Venturatech Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:42:00 -
[110]
Originally by: isca Edited by: isca on 05/12/2009 22:48:19 2. Are you REALLY a 5 year old character? Because if you were you would know that taxes only affect mission rewards/bounties and have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER
I think you misunderstand his version of casual - he logged in 5 years ago, made a char, ran out his 30 days then resubbed two days ago and wet his pants
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Ukucia
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:44:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Ukucia Back in the old days, corp tax was applied to everything that made your wallet go up.
Having it apply to direct trades between players in station was kinda annoying.
When was that? In beta?
No, it was still in effect back when I started. I distinctly remember hitting "Give Money" to my shiny-new first alt to buy some skill books, and finding that she didn't end up with enough to buy 'em.
Taxes have been only on rewards and bounties for a very long time though.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:45:00 -
[112]
I have a 0% tax advantage still. It's easy. You just create your own corp and set the tax rate to zero (or 100%, which is what I do so all the cash goes to corp wallet).
Simples!
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Orion Slavegirl
Amarr Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:46:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:39:31 Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
I have been on and off for almost 5yrs now. I have quit so many times and came back so many times, but it is this recent time that I actually really started to enjoy the game because I have not been bound by a corporation. I have been treating the game more as a hobby, than a game I have to play everyday.
I enjoy running missions and I enjoy trading station to station. Both of these are hurt severely by the NPC Corp tax. I do not want to be in a corp, between my 3 characters I have been in many corps and the game simply isn't for the casual player when you move into corps. There is no way around it. Especially trading, any % over normal tax is very painful since you are buying and selling for large quantities for much smaller profits than you put into it. 5% can take away ALL profit on what is considered to be good trades. You killed that, good job.
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
You are a idiot.
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:51:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia True that. But how to solve it? Big nerf is out of the question. The forums would explode. So nerfing the T1 drops a little bit (which would buff T1 manufacturing a bit), making the mission rats a little bit harder and buffing 0.0 income a little might, all in all, be step in the right direction.
Of course it would not slip unnoticed. But in the end, it's for the betterment of the game. It doesn't matter if a carebear earns 20 mil or 17 mil / per hour. He will pile up isk and not spend them for anything relevant, anyways.
And he will not stick to the game because he is only loyal to his isk, not to other people, a cause or anything worhtwhile. If ISK is all what keeps him, it's bound to not last.
Not making isk for anything "relevant"? Relevant to who? You? (snort!) And how do you know they won't stick with the game? If the game is fun, they'll stick with it.
So they can't be war-dec'd? This change isn't going to put anybody at risk that doesn't want to be at risk, and so will change nothing!
War-dec comes in, disband corp. Start new 1-man corp, rinse and repeat. CCP through the GM's have said its not an exploit to join/leave/disband corps for any reason.
Their stated reason for this change was that they wanted people interacting and "joining player corps". This change will not accomplish that.
Just annoy people.
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:54:00 -
[115]
can i has your stuff
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:06:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Lady Spank How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
This. That was a rather low estimate on what can be made with lvl 4 missioin. See Kerfiras statistic (again) on what is possible to be earned on lvl 4 missions (up to 45 mil, which is ridiculous).
Edit: Being able to earn that much without any risk in empire ruins any other profession in EVE, btw. I'd like to hope CCP would at least nerf the drop rates of T1 mods in PvE - but I guess it won't happen.
TBH, I think CCP is too afraid to reduce L4 earnings, simply because so many of their players will be very angry about it. They can't increase the earnings in 0.0/low-sec significantly either because that'd create runaway inflation.
The gold-mine that are L4's is a major reason 0.0 is so empty these days, simply because the only thing people DO there is to fight (in blobs more often than not). That means there's very few targets for roaming gangs, meaning there ARE very few roaming gangs. Few people there also means there's little industry going on etc.
There was a time when people were REALLY living in 0.0, because ratting was the best type of income. People lived there, earned their money there, produced there, and hunted there! This, by and large, has been gone since L4's took the top position for money earning.
I think CCP's dev's know all this, but that their accountants and board are way too scared to lose a few customers to allow it to be changed
I think CCP know about it, and they do want to change it, and have decided to deal with it by boiling the frog. There wont be a sudden huge state change. There will just be a gradual series of almost imperceptible mission nerfs, combined with a slow increase in the value of 0.0
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:12:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Daemonspirit Not making isk for anything "relevant"? Relevant to who? You? (snort!) And how do you know they won't stick with the game? If the game is fun, they'll stick with it.
What are you talkin about?
Originally by: Daemonspirit So they can't be war-dec'd? This change isn't going to put anybody at risk that doesn't want to be at risk, and so will change nothing!
Why is there athread about it, if nothing changes?
Originally by: Daemonspirit War-dec comes in, disband corp. Start new 1-man corp, rinse and repeat. CCP through the GM's have said its not an exploit to join/leave/disband corps for any reason.
True that. Loophole that needs to be closed. No need for even having wardecs if it's too easy to get around them.
Originally by: Daemonspirit Their stated reason for this change was that they wanted people interacting and "joining player corps". This change will not accomplish that.
It's an incentive to do so. CCP will not scare away those really not wanting. They will just have to pay a ridiculous low amount of ISK for beeing in an NPC corp.
Originally by: Daemonspirit Just annoy people.
Correct. Incentive to join a player corp.
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The Wicked1
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:18:00 -
[118]
Playing for 5 years and you honestly think that any one here cares and that the Devs really read these forums? Sure you've been here 5 years?
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Babyface Thirteen
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:37:00 -
[119]
The human race is so full of fail that I think I need to cry a little.
And am i reffering to the OP? Obviously not since he probably sit and laugh at all the redarts that reply to his funniness.
Do anything the OP post make sense? For the observant reader, no. So why do people think he is serious? Maybe OP is trying to mirror the behavior of the average forum user?
Maybe I should start calling stupid people for Redarts. Then I can offend them and they will not even realize that they get offended. But on the other hand its no fun to offend people if they dont get hurt by it...
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Dani SP
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:45:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Babyface Thirteen The human race is so full of fail that I think I need to cry a little.
And am i reffering to the OP? Obviously not since he probably sit and laugh at all the redarts that reply to his funniness.
Do anything the OP post make sense? For the observant reader, no. So why do people think he is serious? Maybe OP is trying to mirror the behavior of the average forum user?
Maybe I should start calling stupid people for Redarts. Then I can offend them and they will not even realize that they get offended. But on the other hand its no fun to offend people if they dont get hurt by it...
you are assuming OP is a troll and all these humans answering are redarts.
but I think he's not a troll as this kind of whine is too common among NPC playerbase (ingame).
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