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Spacelasers	Posted - 2009.12.04 01:02:00 - [1] I just got into eve again. Have tried it out a couple of times before and descided that I want to give this game a good try again. As a student my economy is really really bad, and the system with PLEX is looking really really good. I have also some to the conclusion that what I want to do in EVE would require two accounts, one highsec carebear account and one less friendly piwate. But paying for 2 subscribtions each month would hurt my economy a lot. So I started up my first account a few days ago, training learning skills and doing tutorial missions. But I'd like to start my other one soon so I can start training skills. So I thought that I'd aim for getting my carebear account into making enough ISK to pay for one of the accounts. I read a bit about ISK-making and a lot of people seems (seemed?) to recommend high-sec veldspar mining. This doesn't seem like a bad idea since I would be able to have my laptop running while studying. But how quickly would it be possible to have enough profits to make 300+ mil/month (pref. twice that ammount)? Would it maybe be faster to go for missionrunning? I guess a lot of people will tell me to do what ever I want but I would really appreciate being able to quickly make my way to that level, so I can sit and do that for a few hours every week and then have my alt to have fun on. What do you older EVE-players thinks is a good way to go?
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2009.12.04 01:10:00 - [2] Making Eve into a job sounds like a good way to go for sure... -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.04 01:25:00 - [3] For a long time, it'll be less hours of work per PLEX if you work an RL job rather than farm ingame.
Dennmoth Ferdier	Posted - 2009.12.04 01:31:00 - [4] Edited by: Dennmoth Ferdier on 04/12/2009 01:34:40 I've been trying to fill that goal for 2+ years. You tell me if you succeed. Seriously though, I've found the ways, I know how to do it but the but lies in how I can do it with the least possible amount of time and effort invested. Simplest way to do it I guess would be to do it mining. It takes the longest amount of time, but sure it can be done. It takes about 2 months to train a hulk, and it used to cost some 130 million to get it going. As prices are crazy now, I think it's somewhere 200 million for the ship only or some crap. Anyway, you would be making some 6 million per hour mining, and I'm saying 6 instead of 8-10 because you're running most likely only one account, so hauling eats a lot of your time. 300 divided by 6 after 2 months and some 100-150-200 million isk. Manufacturing can make you the buck as well, even t1 manufacturing and there is only some 30-40 days of skill training required. This just requires some a lot of research on blueprints, and the profit margins themselves. You will also have to keep checking for fluctuation in prices. But what would be the best, is trading in my very honest opinion. You can start with mining to make the initial buck. Say instead of buying that hulk, save the 100 million. While you're gathering the money, train some basic trading skills. When you reach that much, go to Jita / Amarr / Rens and set up some buy orders for about 10% lower than the sell price. Just check the amount of items that are moving per day. If it's plenty, you have found a money maker. Your initial cash of 100 million won't do wonders over night, but you will start getting some good turnover reselling the stuff and your revenue will increase. In a couple of months, if you're active and diligent, I guarantee you're running over a billion in cash, which will already essentially enable you to make 300 million isk a month. Trading is seriously effective and most definately the best time vs isk maker, and even more passive than mining itself. You can update your buy and sell orders every hour for example, which will be more than enough on most items, instead of the 3 minute timer you'd get with mining, for example. The but in it, in my personal opinion is, that it's mind numbingly boring. Even more tedious than mining itself. Some people like it, enjoy it even. I don't, but I know how to make the buck. Hope this help you. ------ Dare to challenge me?
Yxalitis	Posted - 2009.12.04 01:32:00 - [5] Mission simlpe as that Pick a corp that you can work for, run through as many missions as fast as you can to get standings, when you hit Level IV's, the isk starts rollig in. I cna easily make 1 Billion a month playing 2-3 hourrs a day. Read up about the most profitable missions, get setup for a level IV, decline any missions that involve no bounties, avoid any that make you fight one of the Empire races, choose an area of space that has a few agents to choose from. I run Level IV's for RSS, and there are 3 level IV agents in 2 adjacent systems. Damsel's in Distress, Angel Extra, World's Collide, all good earners. if you only want to mission, either play caldari, or train for a Tech III ship, for some strange reason they are faster then Tech II cruisers to skill for. My Loki runs Level IV's faster then my Maelstrom did. I don't believe in signatures, not even really cool ones like "This signature intentionaly left blank"
Dennmoth Ferdier	Posted - 2009.12.04 01:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Yxalitis Mission simlpe as that Pick a corp that you can work for, run through as many missions as fast as you can to get standings, when you hit Level IV's, the isk starts rollig in. I cna easily make 1 Billion a month playing 2-3 hourrs a day. Read up about the most profitable missions, get setup for a level IV, decline any missions that involve no bounties, avoid any that make you fight one of the Empire races, choose an area of space that has a few agents to choose from. I run Level IV's for RSS, and there are 3 level IV agents in 2 adjacent systems. Damsel's in Distress, Angel Extra, World's Collide, all good earners. if you only want to mission, either play caldari, or train for a Tech III ship, for some strange reason they are faster then Tech II cruisers to skill for. My Loki runs Level IV's faster then my Maelstrom did. LVL 4 missions take a good bunch of time to get in to, the BS (most preferrably) takes a good bunch of isk to set up (even more to lose). Level 4 missions aren't run throughs, especially for a starting player without a lot of experience in missions. I know I've lost several BSs under the first 20 lvl 4 missions I've ran (though I suck tbh). But perhaps most importantly, missions will require your full focus for that 2-3 hours per day you're running them. And trust me, it will start eating your soul the same way as mining or trading, maybe a bit later, but it will ------ Dare to challenge me?
Spacelasers	Posted - 2009.12.04 01:48:00 - [7] Edited by: Spacelasers on 04/12/2009 01:49:59 Edited by: Spacelasers on 04/12/2009 01:48:54 Thank you Dennmoth I think that trading would fit me actually, and it sounds fun. It requires little active time compared to actually doing things when you are running missions. Mining would maybe be a good way to get into trading later, and training up to a transport ship I can use to haul would benefit the trading career as well I guess. But money makes money on the market as well. Maybe I could set up the other account earlier as well and have both of them running mining and hauling. Oh, and I guess I'd benefit from creating a new 0% tax-corp if I descide to go trading? 11% NPC-corp tax would kill the profits since you can't clear losses from profits before taxing?
Misaki Yuuko	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:02:00 - [8] I tell you that's the worse thing a new player can do (next to only training learning in teh beginning and not starting pvping since the beginning if they are interested in that), you will suffer for months before you can effectivelly do it. You will play to pay subscription, basically is terrible, cause it feels like a second job. Not saying that it can't be done, but most ways of doing it requiere a know-how, skills (character and personal skills) and capital you don't have, very few newbies succed doing it, very evry FEW. Just play normally and if you are decent at the game in some time you will be able to afford playing not only with one but even various accounts with PLEX. I know plenty of pople that came into EVE with the wrong idea of "playing for free" and leaving the game cause theywere sick of it. Is a very bad idea trust me.
JSC	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:05:00 - [9] I'd play for free, but I put up orders for ridiculous amounts of exotic dancers. It's for a project I'm working on.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:17:00 - [10] Get into a dominix Get energy systems operation and energy management to 4 get the skills for t1 armor hardeners, and large armor reppers (use best named for reppers though) get t2 cap rechargers get t1 CCCs get the skills to use ogres, and gallente BS and drone interfacing to at least 3 Run lvl 4s with someone, do it long enough to get to know the missions that agent offers (There will be maybe 10-15 total, so not hard) Get standings with that agent to run their missions Run missions nearly completely afk Keep training skills to improve your domi There is no ????, just profit. Did this myself for about a year, then sold the character for like 10bil once it could fly a carrier, missions in a domi offer more isk/hour than mining by a wide margin, and involve less attention once you learn how to do it. Get t2 tanking skills before getting t2 drones.

Kerogen Logos	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:29:00 - [11] I was in pretty much the exact same situation you were...and this is what I did. I started being a miner. I got my hulk. I mined for a week and got bored. I trained for L4 missions. I got bored of my mission boat. I did manufacturing, and it wasn't great returns on its own. I did trading, and it made a decent amount of isk, but wasn't fun. So now what I've done, is I'm taking my manufacturing skills and my mission skills, and I moved to Minmatar space. I'm training for an autocannon ship to run L4 missions, because it'd be more fun than parking my raven arse at the gate and spamming missiles. Then I'll take my profits and manufacture/trade with it for a change of pace (because missions are a great income, but you'll get bored of them). So my recommendation. Pick a gunship that looks awesome to you. Train to fly it REALLY well. Then train manufacturing skills, and use your mission income to supply a manufacturing business to make more isk. Slowly move your way up the ladder, and between faction fitting your mission ship, getting a marauder, buying Battleship BPOs, etc...you'll have more than enough to keep you busy, and more than enough isk to play for free.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:48:00 - [12] You'll want to read through the Beginner's Guide to Making ISK. [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Shirei Fenikkusu Knights of the Eternal Flame	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:58:00 - [13] I've been playing for about a year on my main and 6 months on my alt with nothing but PLEXs, but it takes a while for it to become easy. I started with running missions almost non-stop, looting and salvaging every wreck. It is a good way to make money in high-sec, but can take a lot of time, and could be dangerous when done solo. You have to pick and chose the missions you want to take, and be prepared to fall back a notch or two if you are ever unable to do a mission. (Standing Hits, and not being to get missions until the agent likes you again.) I can't really say much about mining, as I never really got into it. But it seems that it is only really beneficial if you plan to go into production. Otherwise, you will have to have an alt or a buddy there to haul the mined minerals for you to be effecient. (Best to join a mining/industrial corp) I recently joined a null-sec alliance, and I have to say that null-sec ratting is far better than running missions and mining. Depending on the rat spawns and loot drops, you can easily make 10-30mil an hour. (not counting officer/faction spawns potential 100s of millions) Use your main to kill the spawns, and your alt to salvage the loot. This is a route to take once you have developed your character a bit, as many alliances have skill point restrictions, and ask that everyone be able to PvP effectively. With Dominion, running Mag and Radar exploration sites (the ones you use probes to find) has become a whole lot easier, and can be very profitable. Just yesterday I ran a few Mag sites in null-sec and raked in approximately 300mil in tech 2 salvage alone, and it took me less than an hour. And trust me, the pirate life isn't that great. I joined a pirate corp early on because I thought it would be fun, but within the first week we had huge corporations war-deccing us with no escape. If you went this route, I would recommend keeping him in a NPC corp, and use him for solo fights, can flipping, and griefing. Also consider listening to Eve-Radio or some of the other eve related radio stations. They will often run in-game competitions that can earn you a ton of cash. It is how I survived at first.
EvilCheez	Posted - 2009.12.04 06:30:00 - [14] If you have some spare cash right now and don't have a rp aversion to it, sell a couple gtc's. And trade or manufacture with the proceeds. I built up my bankroll the hard way, buying plexs as soon as I could possibly afford too, but that is the hard way, because after you have paid for 2 accounts a large portion of your earnings are gone. This goes on for several months, and then after the plexs become a smaller and smaller portion of your bankroll and you dont have any more expensive skillbooks, implants, or ships to buy BAM! your bankroll just goes up like crazy. That did take me a while though.
Per Ole The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.12.04 07:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Noun Verber For a long time, it'll be less hours of work per PLEX if you work an RL job rather than farm ingame. it only takes 3 hours doing a very crappy job to earn enough for a PLEX, so no surprise there -------------------------------- Screw you guys, I'm going home
Toria Nynys Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.04 07:14:00 - [16] Other than $20 for my first month of eve I've been playing completely ISK funded ever since. But this is eve on hard mode. Unless you find fun in the challenge of making ISK I suggest a part time job flipping burgers one evening a month instead. Even at 20M isk/hour sustained (not easy to do as a new player) you're looking at 15 hours for a 30 day PLEX. That's $1/hour. You're WAAAY better off earning cash in RL. Heck, you'll probably spend a good chunk of that on electricity trying to grind missions as a newbie. All that said, your best bet is the market. Find goods with a good buy/sell margin, put in a buy. Then once filled, sell them. You can even play the market with remote trading skills while missioning or mining. I suggest a Drake -- it does L1-L4 missions, and is extremely low in skill requirements to do so.
hall vinal	Posted - 2009.12.04 07:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Toria Nynys Unless you find fun in the challenge of making ISK I suggest a part time job flipping burgers one evening a month instead. Even at 20M isk/hour sustained (not easy to do as a new player) you're looking at 15 hours for a 30 day PLEX. That's $1/hour. You're WAAAY better off earning cash in RL. Heck, you'll probably spend a good chunk of that on electricity trying to grind missions as a newbie. This. Unless you really like making ISK and can make a lot of it easily, it does not make sense to pay for game with PLEX because you'd literally be spending 15 hours each month trying to save yourself $15. Much easier to hold a part-time job somewhere and make some extra money on the side of pay for EVE or whatever other games you might want to try out.
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.12.04 08:46:00 - [18] Trading is definitely the way to go. I did missions until I was comfortable doing lvl 3's in my drake. I was saving up isk and getting ready to make the move up to raven for lvl 4's when I realised something: When I collected loot from missions, I would take the most expensive stuff to Jita to get a good price. Sometimes as much as 100% more than I could sell for if I just sold to the buy order at my mission hub. I looked at the trading screens and realised that some people really were selling to these orders. I decided to test this buy setting up a few buy orders of my own and going to Jita with my loot + the stuff I got from these orders. Within a couple of days I was making FAR more from the trading than I was from the missions. On top of that, it took up less time in-game. I gave up missioning forever and expanded my trading operations. At this point, I had about 80 million isk. Within 1 month, that had grown to 4 billion. A few months further down the line, I had managed to amass almost 80 billion. Now I'm retired. I make money from investments and large scale, low-time-cost trading around patch changes. (Dominion has been insane btw. HUGE profits.) I play by buying GTC or PLEX and I can have almost any non-cap ship I want. (and frankly, who outside 0.0 alliances would want a cap ship?!) Don't get me wrong, it took a lot of effort in the early days + I wrote my own software to keep track of everything and help me be as efficient as possible. It is achievable though, just don't be surprised if you burn yourself out a bit doing it. --------------------------------------
FarSpace III	Posted - 2009.12.04 08:55:00 - [19] A part time job for 1 day a month would pay for both pluss some extra cash, not doesn't that sound better then farming 2 hrs a day? That's like a week and a half a month part time job. The only way some one would want to pay for game time with isk would be they just already happen to have a ton of isk rolling in anyways and are not farming it, like I'm sure most CEO's of those allainces do that but then if their honest & good for the corp I guess they rate it. Babysit a couple time a month and you will be set.
Professor Jinmei	Posted - 2009.12.04 08:59:00 - [20] Edited by: Professor Jinmei on 04/12/2009 09:03:51 Since you are just starting EVE: DO not, under any circumstances, open the second account. That is until 1) your financial situation improves or 2) you have enough experience and know-how that you make enough ISK to buy PLEX every month. And make sure making ISK does not become your main activity of day coz real life matters in real way.

Scout Ops	Posted - 2009.12.04 09:37:00 - [21] You can't, unless you want EVE to become your second job [or apparently your first job actually] As stated, you want to get a RL job. After 10 days you are able to pay 2x 1year subscrption for your two accounts. When they expire, you should be able to pay by PLEXes [not before] 2 players that are 1 year old can easily make 500m+ a month each one. Now how much can earn 2 noobs? 50m a month? LOL
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.12.04 11:40:00 - [22] Edited by: Ambo on 04/12/2009 11:42:55 People saying 'get a job' are missing the point imo. In my case, I have a job. I have no problem affording the subscription but I play for free because I have an excess of isk. If you're going to be grinding missions/mining/etc AND you dislike doing that, then sure, getting a part time job is a more sensible option. Also, a real job is far less flexible in terms of time commitment. With eve, you can just decide not to play for a week. Don't fancy it that day, no problem, just don't play. With a RL job, this is not an option. Consequently if you enjoy running missions, trading, etc or you can earn so much, so easily that it works out better (this is entirely feasible), then earning cash in-game might be the way to go. In short, neither is the 'right' way of going about paying for a subscription, both are feasible and both have their positives and negatives. --------------------------------------
Chi'kote	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:24:00 - [23] Mission. There is a reason everyone and their mother, grandmother, great aunt, and third cousin twice removed complains about lvl 4's making too much isk for not enough risk. You can in not too long make 20-30 mill / hr in a t2 fit raven with decent skills. And honestly, I disagree w/ whoever said a lvl 4 BS setup costs a lot more than a hulk setup. Especially with t2 prices spiking atm, there isn't too much of a difference. A good raven setup is around 130 mill? 140?. A fully fitted hulk would easily cost that now. And if you do it right (read evesurvival mission guides, fit ship properly, warp out if needed, etc.), you are probably more likely to get suicide ganked in a hulk than lose a raven in a mission. The ONLY reason I'd choose mining over mission running is if you are able to semi-afk mine for 10 hrs a day, but can't pay attention and actively play to run missions for 3 hrs. And I HIGHLY recommend as a new player staying away from trading. First, you need to have money to make money. Second, make a wrong move and you can lose not only your lunch, but your breakfast, dinner, and even 4th meal. You have to be able to lose what you use to trade. Third (and biggest based on your response), trading is NOT passive income. It is NOT a set-and-forget activity. It is a HIGHLY competitive field in any semi-major trade hub that requires hours upon hours of research and constant market maintenance. The real traders put in more time than any other profession in the game. Short version, mission your carebear @$$ off
Swiftgaze	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:34:00 - [24] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 04/12/2009 13:37:46 Edited by: Swiftgaze on 04/12/2009 13:36:49 Originally by: Chi'kote And I HIGHLY recommend as a new player staying away from trading. First, you need to have money to make money. Second, make a wrong move and you can lose not only your lunch, but your breakfast, dinner, and even 4th meal. You have to be able to lose what you use to trade. Third (and biggest based on your response), trading is NOT passive income. It is NOT a set-and-forget activity. It is a HIGHLY competitive field in any semi-major trade hub that requires hours upon hours of research and constant market maintenance. The real traders put in more time than any other profession in the game. Not entirely confirming this. Started trading with 20m at Jita and only paid with plexes ever since that same month passed, eventually I ended up creating a second account that was also paid with plexes. Also, there is never any risk included as long as you dont go into long term trades and in some cases dont keep anything over night. But, trading mirrors the time and effort you put into it and the more ISK you earn, the greedier you will get. I actually ended up going to the doctor to have myself checked for throat cancer because the stress of Jita 4-4 caused my throat to scratch, burn and made me hoarse after a few months. :D EDIT 1: What Im trying to say is, if youre unemployed and dont have any friends Jita might keep you busy for 14 hours per day and you will be waiting for downtime so you can finally take a shower and eat, and you will curse the times when the server is back after 20 minutes already. EDIT 2: Proper skills in the trade sector only require around 2m SP though, its.. nice.
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:35:00 - [25] It is possible but the truth is, to make the kind of money you need to make with a character of your low skills would be to join a 0.0 corp, one with very low SP requirements. It would take you 5 months of skilling up to be able to farm ISK in highsec missions.
James Forest Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:38:00 - [26] Edited by: James Forest on 04/12/2009 13:40:32 IMO don't listen to these people because they are not anywhere in null-sec. There are anomalies out in 0.0 with special rats. These rats drop special loot that go for 500mil each like a Crystal Beta that I got once. If the anomaly escalates, you get more of these special rats. Null-sec is also much more fun than empire. You could also build stuff.
Swiftgaze	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:40:00 - [27] Originally by: James Forest IMO don't listen to these people because they are not anywhere in null-sec. There are anomalies out in 0.0 with special rats. These rats drop special loot that go for 500mil each like a Crystal Beta that I got once. If the anomaly escalates, you get more of these special rats. Null-sec is also much more fun than empire. You can could also build stuff. IMO dont listen to anyone who thinks that a Crystal Beta is worth 500m, not only is he lying about the price, he might also be lying about the drop to begin with.
James Forest Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:52:00 - [28] Edited by: James Forest on 04/12/2009 13:52:21 Originally by: Swiftgaze Originally by: James Forest IMO don't listen to these people because they are not anywhere in null-sec. There are anomalies out in 0.0 with special rats. These rats drop special loot that go for 500mil each like a Crystal Beta that I got once. If the anomaly escalates, you get more of these special rats. Null-sec is also much more fun than empire. You can could also build stuff. IMO dont listen to anyone who thinks that a Crystal Beta is worth 500m, not only is he lying about the price, he might also be lying about the drop to begin with. Well I sold it for 400mil+ and it was some Dread Guristas BS. They also drop this Crystal Omega which according to eve-central they fetch 750+mil: Linkage Besides, Worlds collide is cruddy compared to a 8/10 PLEX or even "The Maze" which my corp did once. That one was pretty hard but spawned wave after wave of 1mil+ BS. At the end the station dropped a Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster. In empire all you get are these cruddy 500k BS and sometimes a 1mil+ BS. *Why do you think the NC or major 0.0 alliances can afford Titans, Dreads, etc?
Swiftgaze	Posted - 2009.12.04 14:00:00 - [29] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 04/12/2009 14:02:44 Edited by: Swiftgaze on 04/12/2009 14:00:39 Originally by: James Forest Edited by: James Forest on 04/12/2009 13:52:21 Originally by: Swiftgaze Originally by: James Forest IMO don't listen to these people because they are not anywhere in null-sec. There are anomalies out in 0.0 with special rats. These rats drop special loot that go for 500mil each like a Crystal Beta that I got once. If the anomaly escalates, you get more of these special rats. Null-sec is also much more fun than empire. You can could also build stuff. IMO dont listen to anyone who thinks that a Crystal Beta is worth 500m, not only is he lying about the price, he might also be lying about the drop to begin with. Well I sold it for 400mil+ and it was some Dread Guristas BS. They also drop this Crystal Omega which according to eve-central they fetch 750+mil: Linkage Besides, Worlds collide is cruddy compared to a 8/10 PLEX or even "The Maze" which my corp did once. That one was pretty hard but spawned wave after wave of 1mil+ BS. At the end the station dropped a Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster. In empire all you get are these cruddy 500k BS and sometimes a 1mil+ BS. *Why do you think the NC or major 0.0 alliances can afford Titans, Dreads, etc? Hmm I wanna be less of a sarcastic bastard but your arguementation is so flawed that I just cant be bothered. Ill cut it short, what makes you think Jita traders cant afford Titans, and what makes you think that 0.0 alliances dont have trade alts? :S EDIT: Some people dont want to fly titans, they just want enough ISK to be able to buy them.
James Forest Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.04 14:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Swiftgaze Edited by: Swiftgaze on 04/12/2009 14:00:39 Originally by: James Forest Edited by: James Forest on 04/12/2009 13:52:21 Originally by: Swiftgaze Originally by: James Forest IMO don't listen to these people because they are not anywhere in null-sec. There are anomalies out in 0.0 with special rats. These rats drop special loot that go for 500mil each like a Crystal Beta that I got once. If the anomaly escalates, you get more of these special rats. Null-sec is also much more fun than empire. You can could also build stuff. IMO dont listen to anyone who thinks that a Crystal Beta is worth 500m, not only is he lying about the price, he might also be lying about the drop to begin with. Well I sold it for 400mil+ and it was some Dread Guristas BS. They also drop this Crystal Omega which according to eve-central they fetch 750+mil: Linkage Besides, Worlds collide is cruddy compared to a 8/10 PLEX or even "The Maze" which my corp did once. That one was pretty hard but spawned wave after wave of 1mil+ BS. At the end the station dropped a Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster. In empire all you get are these cruddy 500k BS and sometimes a 1mil+ BS. *Why do you think the NC or major 0.0 alliances can afford Titans, Dreads, etc? Hmm I wanna be less of a sarcastic bastard but your arguementation is so flawed that I just cant be bothered. Ill cut it short, what makes you think Jita traders cant afford Titans, and what makes you think that 0.0 alliances dont have trade alts? :S The guy is asking how he can make money and people are suggesting him to grind L4 missions all day. All I'm suggesting is to not be a care bear and go PVP and make money out in 0.0.



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