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Zifrian
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Posted - 2009.11.17 19:10:00 -
[1]
I'm using a Dominix mainly (I like sentry drones) for Level 4's and have been using medium rails for a long time. People keep telling me they are using large rail/blasters for level 4's and doing well but I usually suck with large versions every time I try them.
So here is what I've been playing with and I'd appreciate any advice.
Skills - Large hybrid 3, Gall BS 3, All universal gunnery skills are 4. I use Dual 250mm Gauss guns since I can't use T2 yet and I don't have the power grid for anything higher. (not adv weapon upgrades yet)
I use a Dominix because I like the drone variety I get. I use sentry drones, hammers and hobs. Hobs for small fast frigates, hammers for slower and fast cruisers, sentries for everything else. I have been using rail guns mainly for the range since most missions the targets are greater than 10km out. Angel Extravaganza is one of the exceptions since they fly right up on you but in both cases, my damage could be better.
In my fit I use 2 mag stabilizers and a tracking computer with a tracking script. My logic here is that a webber doesn't get the range I need and the effect is largely the same. I've looked into target painting but this requires me to dump the tracking script and from what I can tell only affects the cruisers since I can hit the BS's with larges already?
Since I use sentry drones, I do like to stay stationary however I know that reducing transversal is key to getting good hits so sometimes I'll fly around but I don't have a lot of speed anyway...and an AB will take up another mid slot (I have cap rechargers in the others).
So with all that in mind, I'm not sure why I'm doing like 400-500 a group on BS's. I'm not noticing a difference with using a webber, painter or tracking script. In fact the script really only ups my speed from 0.021 to 0.025.
Is there anything else I can look into or do? Or is this about as good as it's going to get with my skills so far? Would I be better off going back to mediums till I raise my skills more? What skills would I look at?
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
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Neuronai
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Posted - 2009.11.17 19:19:00 -
[2]
Yeah I had the same problem when I used to mission in my Dominix. The tracking is just poo basically.
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2009.11.17 19:54:00 -
[3]
I use to run a Dominix way back in the day with a set of Dread Guristas 350mm Rails and a perma dual rep with sentries. Did this until I was able to use T2 rails then went with the Navy Megathron. I think I also used one Shadow Serpentis tracking computer.
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ropnes
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Posted - 2009.11.17 20:10:00 -
[4]
I use 5 grouped 350mm (named) don't do much damage with them compared to my sentries
I cough it up to rails being very meh, especially the tier 1-2 ones. The range is poor so you need to use longer range ammo and you lose a lot of damage doing that. Domi doesn't have enough slots (or PG) for a proper amount of turrets anyway
In my opinion you'd be better off using Omnidirectional Tracking Links instead of the Tracking Computer. T2 sentries make a huge difference, and you can push their optimal beyond 45km. Focus on the drones (make sure you have sentry damage rigs as well)
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Brent riper
Caldari Night Wolves Deprived of Existence by Mercenaries of the Night
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Posted - 2009.11.17 20:16:00 -
[5]
well with gallente bs lvl 5 and t2 rails spec to 4 u should be hitting 2x as hard or more so depending on the rest of the skills, i used to have the same feeling when i used rails until i got bs lvl 5 and t large rails and specs to 4, it greatly improved dmg. if you are focusing on guns for dmg rather then grabbing aggression off your drones then go with a megathron or hyperion, they will greatly improve that and you cans till use sentry drones with them,
but really the domi with 4 or 6 350mm rails tracking is pretty poo so toss in a tracking enhancer or something then u should notice a difference in your damage.
AND further more, Carthage must be destroyed!! |
Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2009.11.17 20:33:00 -
[6]
look at faction webs. I've been using a gallente navy stasis web with a range of 14km. There's another with a range of 15km. You already have the LP for the GN one. Very rarely will a ship you should be shooting at and where traversal causes reduced dps do ships orbit outside of this range. (that sentence is hard to read). Basicly, leave frigs and cruisers to your drones, the faction web will work in most cases where you have a hard time shooting BCs and BSs. I do see often people fitting the TCs, but the web has worked great for me.
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Mike712
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Posted - 2009.11.17 21:28:00 -
[7]
I'd doesn't appear to be the fault of your fit, it's just that railguns have pretty poor DPS, even a Megathron with 2 mag stabs and maxed skills is only going to be putting out something in the region of 425 DPS and that's with 450mm rails.
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Planktal
Gallente Kenshao Industries Death Is Everywhere
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Posted - 2009.11.17 21:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Planktal on 17/11/2009 21:39:31
Originally by: Mike712 I'd doesn't appear to be the fault of your fit, it's just that railguns have pretty poor DPS, even a Megathron with 2 mag stabs and maxed skills is only going to be putting out something in the region of 425 DPS and that's with 450mm rails.
I'm running 3 mag stabs and T2 rails, not max skills, on my Navy Mega and pulling 600dps with just the guns. also, it's 425mm not 450mm.
On my Domi I run 5 425mm T2 with 3 mag stabs and pull 416dps.
it's all in how you fit it.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.11.17 21:38:00 -
[9]
Comments: - First and foremost, your skills are pretty bad. You should definitely get BS4+Lg Hybrid 4 for more than a 10% DPS boost. I'd probably go for BS5 before T2 guns, since you're in a Domi. - Consider moving to a 5 350mm + DLA/Tractor fit. While you can get superior *actual damage* out of 6 D250s, your range is pretty bad and you lose your tractor and/or DLA. - This should go without saying, but make sure you're shooting Kin/Thm weak enemies as much as possible. - Bring the right ammo for the range you're working with. There's been too many times where I've seen someone only bring long range ammo and then have "poor damage" up close, or bring close range ammo and have virtually no damage at range. - Learn to prioritize your targets, and consider sorting overview by transversal. - Nothing's going to make a Domi do 1300 DPS at 45km, but the sentry domi deals pretty fantastic *actual* damage anyway. Don't be put off by "a mere" 400 extra DPS or something from the guns. :)
Best of luck
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Mike712
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Posted - 2009.11.17 21:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Mike712 on 17/11/2009 21:53:24
Quote:
I'm running 3 mag stabs and T2 rails, not max skills, on my Navy Mega and pulling 600dps with just the guns. also, it's 425mm not 450mm.
Excuse the typo, also I was referring to a Megathron with tech 1 rails not a navy mega with tech 2 rails. I would also guess that you have added faction antimatter in to that figure of 600 DPS.
Quote:
On my Domi I run 5 425mm T2 with 3 mag stabs and pull 416dps.
it's all in how you fit it.
Again you fail to mention that figure comes from using faction ammo.
To the OP, using faction ammo to boost DPS is an option but since CCP's operation "unholy rage" you can make way more isk buy selling implants purchased with LP than you can buy boosting DPS with faction ammo bought with LP(well that's what I've found anyway).
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Vherr Arkhar
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Posted - 2009.11.17 22:07:00 -
[11]
Railguns were rather fun to fly in a hyperion, imho. But the mission times suck very very badly. Thats just it. Thats why harly anyone that is not a fanatic uses anything but ac(vargur) missiles(raven), torps(golem) or lasers(nightmare,*don,*poc) in missions. Sometimes pilots might choose heavy missiles (tengu, drake), less effective than a torp golem, but still... way better than anything using rails or blasters. Not even the Kronos really gets an impressive... rails are just too bad, and there is nothing that makes blasters have a 'proper' mission range of 55km (some guristas battleships and such). The combination of low dmg, low tracking and low firerate makes them good at the same area as artillery: picking off small crap that heads your way. Thats it. So - flying gallente? GET DRONES UP!
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Zifrian
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Posted - 2009.11.18 06:36:00 -
[12]
Thanks for the replies everyone. Very helpful.
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Hydroz0rz
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Posted - 2009.11.19 09:03:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Hydroz0rz on 19/11/2009 09:04:33 I think rails are great, I myself use a Navy Megathron doing lvl4s. With my setup of 3 x 425mm Prototypes and 4 x 250mm Prototypes with a drone link augmentor.
Now, people will say never mix weapons but I blast through missions with this setup. I do use 2 magnetic stabilizer T2 as well as a T2 painter.
Skills which have major effect to damage are these:
Surgical strike Trajectory analysis Sharpshooter Rapid Firing
Also Ive no idea of your skills but if you can take the time to train T2 drones these will help so much. Also have some faith in hobs with everything under battleships. They chew through cruisers and battlecruisers. I leave the Hammers for the BSs..
Personally I cant wait until I get T2 medium and large rails.
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:17:00 -
[14]
I am really happy with rails in PVE and in some PVP situations.
However and as others have said, you need to up your skills. Whilst you already have the support skills to level 4, you need to get Gallente Battleship to 4 and Large Hybrids to 4. Once done you then need to train both to 5 and then train Large Hybrid Specialisation to 4. Finally train Surgical Strike to 5...
Fit some t2 hybrids on your boat with faction antimatter, then you'll notice the difference Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:46:00 -
[15]
If you don't like rail dps at missions, go try arties. Your opinion will surely change. And for increasing your dps at rails... Start with using "prototype" named ones and bs - hybrit skill 4. Without damage mods no weapon system will do some real damage btw. Don't use faction ammo for anything other than a player or your wallet is going to bleed.
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Fuazzole
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Posted - 2009.11.19 17:40:00 -
[16]
Kronos or Navy Megathron
After patch Navy Mega will be able to do 7x Railgun + 5x Sentry + 5 Light Drones, more reliable Gun dps then a Dominix and more drone power then Kronos.
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Ku'Nari Skywall
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Posted - 2009.11.19 18:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Fuazzole After patch Navy Mega will be able to do 7x Railgun + 5x Sentry + 5 Light Drones, more reliable Gun dps then a Dominix and more drone power then Kronos.
Yeah, but the Navy Mega is going to get hit with that ugly green-camouflage paint job.
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Sun Liping
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Posted - 2009.11.19 18:52:00 -
[18]
you also might want to consider rail-affecting implants. there is one adding 5% damage to all turrets, and one good for another 5% for large rails = easy 10% boost (costs some isk, and have a look at your cybernetics skill first)
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Kazang
Gallente Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2009.11.19 19:10:00 -
[19]
Its very easy to minimise transversal on mission rats other than frigs to get full damage. You simply fly in the same direction as them in a parallel line, you don't even have to move very fast just merely turning and starting to move in the correct direction will lower transversal enough to hit cruisers and above.
Aside from that rail damage is quite low anyway so it may be that your expecting something above what your guns are going to put out.
Kazang
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Hydroz0rz
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Posted - 2009.11.19 20:11:00 -
[20]
Dude are you serious? rails do low damage?
Thats so untrue its silly. Railguns dish out proper hurt with the right skills.
Cruise missiles may hurt more but in my opinion missiles are for boring sods who don't like a decent fight.
Caldari firing from 130km away is just so yawnville.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 01:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hydroz0rz Caldari firing from 130km away is just so yawnville.
Meet the Golem - most targets are < 40km, and managing 3 TPs is a royal pita. Mostly I just want the ISK to roll in without me actually doing anything though.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Mike712
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Hydroz0rz Caldari firing from 130km away is just so yawnville.
Meet the Golem - most targets are < 40km, and managing 3 TPs is a royal pita. Mostly I just want the ISK to roll in without me actually doing anything though.
-Liang
Sounds like you need a cap stable fit on your golem, that way you can focus on target painting instead of worrying about your tank ;)
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mike712 Sounds like you need a cap stable fit on your golem, that way you can focus on target painting instead of worrying about your tank ;)
Watchu talkin bout Willis! I said managing the target painters was annoying! I hardly ever have to manage my tank. Mostly, because its so thin that if I did have to manage it, it'd crumble.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:41:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 20/11/2009 06:44:08
Originally by: Zifrian
Skills - Large hybrid 3, Gall BS 3, All universal gunnery skills are 4.
This is your problem.
One of my toons is pur Amarr and it's the same with Large Lasers. With named T1 (modulated) Beams, low gunnery skills and BS just at 3 it was a pain to do missions. I can remember a Ghuristas Veagance with this 2,5m BS where I had to call a friend as I couldn't do enought DPS with my Geddon to kill it. Now with better skills, it's dead before I have to use my Armor Rep :).
BS 5, Large Guns 5, Rail/Blaster special will do it. As Gallente better train your Sentrys up as it is faster then training BS/Gunnery 5. After you can use T2 Sentrys ... work on the other two ;).
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Mike712
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Mike712 Sounds like you need a cap stable fit on your golem, that way you can focus on target painting instead of worrying about your tank ;)
Watchu talkin bout Willis! I said managing the target painters was annoying! I hardly ever have to manage my tank. Mostly, because its so thin that if I did have to manage it, it'd crumble.
-Liang
maybe this fit would help you :D
[Golem, That's Allot of Pwnage!] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Thon's Modified Invulnerability Field
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Not bad I think for a mere 8.5 billion with low grade crystals.
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quasarabyss
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zifrian Skills - Large hybrid 3, Gall BS 3, All universal gunnery skills are 4. I use Dual 250mm Gauss guns since I can't use T2 yet and I don't have the power grid for anything higher. (not adv weapon upgrades yet)
So with all that in mind, I'm not sure why I'm doing like 400-500 a group on BS's. I'm not noticing a difference with using a webber, painter or tracking script. In fact the script really only ups my speed from 0.021 to 0.025.
A couple (make that 3) of things spring to mind here: Get the powergrid. Every weapon type will use it, every armour type and every shield type...you get the idea.
Secondly, 0.021 to 0.025 is an increase of 20%....that's pretty significant, it seems your tracking speed is not the issue. Or if it is, get some Web drones on that thing-it is a Dominix.
And lastly...250mm prototypes don't pickup the Dominix bonus of 5% LARGE HYBRID turret damage as they are a medium Turret.
I hope I haven't missed anything since i've never flown a Dominix before.
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Kasutra
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:19:00 -
[27]
I suggest you try a 5x 350mm fit. Similar damage, a range that can keep up with the sentry's optimal, and a utility slot.
I use that and 2x Magstabs as part of my standard Domi fit. The guns help crack BS tanks all right.
Originally by: quasarabyss And lastly...250mm prototypes don't pickup the Dominix bonus of 5% LARGE HYBRID turret damage as they are a medium Turret.
Dual 250mm guns are large.
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NyteTyger
Gallente NiteSun Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.20 14:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: NyteTyger on 20/11/2009 14:04:36 I LOVE my Domi. I personally think it is one of the top BS's in the game. But, like any other BS, you've got to train it.
Quote: Skills - Large hybrid 3, Gall BS 3, All universal gunnery skills are 4. I use Dual 250mm Gauss guns since I can't use T2 yet and I don't have the power grid for anything higher. (not adv weapon upgrades yet)
As others have said before me, these skills are crucial to you DPS, and why your DPS is lacking. You've already done Sentry drones (to 5, right? ), so go ahead and get those other long trains out. BS 5 and T2 guns make a huge difference. Huge.
Oh, and bleh on the 350s and below. Get those 425s on there, you know you want to With your skills up, a Domi can easily break 700 dps. A full gank Domi can do 1k+ with Faction AM with 425 IIs. But you gotta put the time in.
As far as factions go after Dominion, screw the Navy Mega, grab a new Navy Domi I'm practically frothing at the mouth for that one, and might I say DAMN FW LP ONLY
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quasarabyss
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kasutra
Originally by: quasarabyss And lastly...250mm prototypes don't pickup the Dominix bonus of 5% LARGE HYBRID turret damage as they are a medium Turret.
Dual 250mm guns are large.
I stand corrected. I think the other points remain valid though.
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small chimp
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:39:00 -
[30]
[Dominix, New Setup 3] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Core A-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Core A-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Corelum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Core A-Type Large Armor Repairer
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 Gallente Navy Tracking Computer
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I [empty rig slot]
Garde II x5
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