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Orlok Raven
Motion Research Inc Obsidian Legions
1
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since that new Mining Frigate looks great and it has a beautiful industrial touch to it... Will CCP change the models on the Hulk for that same yellow variant model that the frigate has?? I think it is time miners got a new updated look since they will no longer be one shotted! =D |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
11
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
rather they spent time on useful things rather than needlessly changing models of ships that look perfectly fine. |
Orlok Raven
Motion Research Inc Obsidian Legions
1
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:rather they spent time on useful things rather than needlessly changing models of ships that look perfectly fine.
Obviously they are already spending time on the fixes. The ship is perfectly fine but all other ships are getting new models and I do not see why the Barges/Exhumers are any different. No one is saying change them overnight, but eventually. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
94
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like that you can see the evolution of the new ship lines. Barges have a distinctive look. New ORE frigate looks like the newer generation ships. Only the really old and particularly heinous ships new a full on revision. Maybe someday it'll be time to retire the Hulk and start on Hulk 2.0. -á |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
11
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Orlok Raven wrote:Dave stark wrote:rather they spent time on useful things rather than needlessly changing models of ships that look perfectly fine. Obviously they are already spending time on the fixes. The ship is perfectly fine but all other ships are getting new models and I do not see why the Barges/Exhumers are any different. No one is saying change them overnight, but eventually.
as far as i was aware it was just paint jobs that were being changed (with the excption of stealth bombers, which they had to do due to the missile launcher graphics) |
Keeryn
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
0
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
it is time for those barges like a lot of ships to see a new skin
i don't think the boost they are suggesting will stop me from taking hulks out on the field i don't diss what they are trying tho
what would be nice is a middle ground hauler, something like 50,000 base m3 would be nice, just sit inbetween an orca and a Ity5
what other ideas for boosting industry can we think of???? |
Orlok Raven
Motion Research Inc Obsidian Legions
1
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keeryn wrote:it is time for those barges like a lot of ships to see a new skin i don't think the boost they are suggesting will stop me from taking hulks out on the field i don't diss what they are trying tho what would be nice is a middle ground hauler, something like 50,000 base m3 would be nice, just sit inbetween an orca and a Ity5 what other ideas for boosting industry can we think of????
/Agreed.
The Ore Frigate has an awesome look even though it looks like the M.U.L.E. from Starcraft 2 but maybe on of the other posters is right, a Hulk 2.0 Requiring a new Sub-Capital Exhumer skill? |
Keeryn
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
0
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Orlok Raven wrote:[qoute=keeryn]
what other ideas for boosting industry can we think of????
/Agreed.
The Ore Frigate has an awesome look even though it looks like the M.U.L.E. from Starcraft 2 but maybe on of the other posters is right, a Hulk 2.0 Requiring a new Sub-Capital Exhumer skill?[/quote]
a capital sized hulk would indeed be interesting, but i think also over power, driving mineral prices down to hard
with full fleet support i can empty belts in an hour and thats with only 2 hulks and a covoter, imagine the damage a capital mining barge would do, then times is by how many alts.... |
xPredat0rz
Violent Alternatives C0NVICTED
4
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Keeryn wrote:Orlok Raven wrote:[qoute=keeryn]
what other ideas for boosting industry can we think of???? /Agreed. The Ore Frigate has an awesome look even though it looks like the M.U.L.E. from Starcraft 2 but maybe on of the other posters is right, a Hulk 2.0 Requiring a new Sub-Capital Exhumer skill?
a capital sized hulk would indeed be interesting, but i think also over power, driving mineral prices down to hard
with full fleet support i can empty belts in an hour and thats with only 2 hulks and a covoter, imagine the damage a capital mining barge would do, then times is by how many alts....[/quote]
If the Capital "Hulk" had to siege to mine greater then a hulk. (say double to triple what a hulk can pull) it runs the risk of being caught and or killed. also making only able to work in low or null sec means miners that want to pull billions have to be willing to push out. Also with a 5 minute siege time it runs a risk of being caught and or killed. |
Keeryn
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
0
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
[qoute] If the Capital "Hulk" had to siege to mine greater then a hulk. (say double to triple what a hulk can pull) it runs the risk of being caught and or killed. also making only able to work in low or null sec means miners that want to pull billions have to be willing to push out. Also with a 5 minute siege time it runs a risk of being caught and or killed.[/quote]
didn't think of that, good point, maybe have it so un-sieged it would pull in less then a hulk
all speculation mind you
and i am still concerned that more ore production would cause a decrease in values again |
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Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
12
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
increased yields are not what is needed for new mining ships.
i think CCP has got it right with the ore bays and the tank on the new exhumers.
increasing mining yields would be like adding more miners, it just increases supply and without extra demand the prices will drop.
if we're going to have a capital class hulk let's talk about the rorqual, basically copy the rorqual and give it the strip miners instead of fleet bonuses.
you can compress while you mine, you can jump the ore to a refinery, etc. maybe give it a pilot only bonus to laser range. overall i think the way for mining ships to progress is to add utility and useful features to them rather than being able to mine more ore. |
Keeryn
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
0
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:
overall i think the way for mining ships to progress is to add utility and useful features to them rather than being able to mine more ore.
agreed
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xPredat0rz
Violent Alternatives C0NVICTED
4
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
I dont disagree on the utility.
But lets face it as a miner once you progress to hulk there is no real reason to go further. Yeah you can go orca or Rorqual as a booster ship, but as a miner yourself there is no added bonus for you.
Giving the miner a capital ship to work towards allows them more progression in an industrial based field.
Also with all the recent changes and hulkageddon driving mineral prices up supply has become an issue.
As it stands right now its cheaper and easier to buy minerals from high sec and export to low/null to build caps and scaps.. A capital Mining ship that actually mines would give people a chance to move some of the production to low/null.
As it stands its just a as profitable to mine in high sec under relative safety in a hulk as it is in 0.0.
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Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
12
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
xPredat0rz wrote:As it stands its just a as profitable to mine in high sec under relative safety in a hulk as it is in 0.0.
http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore
arkonor is worth 51% more than pyrox, it's not "just as profitable to mine in high sec" at all.
not to mention, 0.0 is arguably safer (almost ironic but there you go). |
xPredat0rz
Violent Alternatives C0NVICTED
4
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:xPredat0rz wrote:As it stands its just a as profitable to mine in high sec under relative safety in a hulk as it is in 0.0.
http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:orearkonor is worth 51% more than pyrox, it's not "just as profitable to mine in high sec" at all. not to mention, 0.0 is arguably safer (almost ironic but there you go).
True but mining veldspar your pulling in 75% of what you would mining ark
0.0 is only safer if you live in the ass end of nowhere. Also then you have to safely export your profits to high sec. risk vs reward. |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
44
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
xPredat0rz wrote:I dont disagree on the utility.
But lets face it as a miner once you progress to hulk there is no real reason to go further. Yeah you can go orca or Rorqual as a booster ship, but as a miner yourself there is no added bonus for you.
Giving the miner a capital ship to work towards allows them more progression in an industrial based field.
Also with all the recent changes and hulkageddon driving mineral prices up supply has become an issue.
As it stands right now its cheaper and easier to buy minerals from high sec and export to low/null to build caps and scaps.. A capital Mining ship that actually mines would give people a chance to move some of the production to low/null.
As it stands its just a as profitable to mine in high sec under relative safety in a hulk as it is in 0.0.
This is actually kind of important, especially when it comes to trit. There is little to no trit produced in 0.0, simply because people mine it 24/7 in hisec, and its just too much of a pain in the ass. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
13
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
xPredat0rz wrote:True but mining veldspar your pulling in 75% of what you would mining ark
0.0 is only safer if you live in the ass end of nowhere. Also then you have to safely export your profits to high sec. risk vs reward.
false, mining veld is less profitable than pyro, which means you're going to be pulling in less than 66% of what you'd be making on arkonor.
i'm not going to derail this with a dicussion on the safety of high sec vs null sec. also i've never had to move my goods out of null to make money and i'm making more money in null than i ever have in high.
Kitt JT wrote:
This is actually kind of important, especially when it comes to trit. There is little to no trit produced in 0.0, simply because people mine it 24/7 in hisec, and its just too much of a pain in the ass.
this is why you speak kindly to all the ratters in your alliance and buy the trit from their hauler spawns at knock down prices because they're too lazy to haul it :P |
Piquet Raddei
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Doth my eyes deceive me, or do I see two lines on that ORE Frigate spec sheet that say "Mineral Compressor Units" and "Condensed Material Container"....?!?!?
Ore Compression abilities!?!? I'll take 10 please! |
Grenn Putubi
The SWAG Lab SWAG Co
6
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Personally I like the models for the current barges and exhumers and I'd be loath to let them go. If anything they could just use some touching up here and there to make them more pretty, but no major changes needed imo.
What I would like to see though is the barges' skins/color scheme changed to match the nifty new yellow of the ORE mining frigate and a T2 variant of that same frigate that shares a skin/color scheme with the Exhumers. Perhaps the T2 variant of the frig could concentrate on drone mining and give big bonuses to mining drone yield/velocity/hp? Mining with drones is something I've always enjoyed, but the Vexor is only ship that gives a bonus to their yield. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
13
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Piquet Raddei wrote:Doth my eyes deceive me, or do I see two lines on that ORE Frigate spec sheet that say "Mineral Compressor Units" and "Condensed Material Container"....?!?!?
Ore Compression abilities!?!? I'll take 10 please!
think that's the pretentious art folk's way of saying "ore bay". |
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
236
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Posted - 2012.06.14 16:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Orlok Raven wrote:Since that new Mining Frigate looks great and it has a beautiful industrial touch to it... Will CCP change the models on the Hulk for that same yellow variant model that the frigate has?? I think it is time miners got a new updated look since they will no longer be one shotted! =D
I see no reason to paint everything construction yellow though I agree the new ship looks good.
My only question is what will happen to the current role bonuses.. will they remain or go away.. (ex: mack inc mining bonus or the skiff for merxoit) [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Keeryn
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
0
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Posted - 2012.06.14 17:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Orlok Raven wrote:Since that new Mining Frigate looks great and it has a beautiful industrial touch to it... Will CCP change the models on the Hulk for that same yellow variant model that the frigate has?? I think it is time miners got a new updated look since they will no longer be one shotted! =D I see no reason to paint everything construction yellow though I agree the new ship looks good. My only question is what will happen to the current role bonuses.. will they remain or go away.. (ex: mack inc mining bonus or the skiff for merxoit)
they did fail to mention that, hopefully they do keep the current system, it works well |
Grenn Putubi
The SWAG Lab SWAG Co
9
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Posted - 2012.06.14 17:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Keeryn wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:Orlok Raven wrote:Since that new Mining Frigate looks great and it has a beautiful industrial touch to it... Will CCP change the models on the Hulk for that same yellow variant model that the frigate has?? I think it is time miners got a new updated look since they will no longer be one shotted! =D I see no reason to paint everything construction yellow though I agree the new ship looks good. My only question is what will happen to the current role bonuses.. will they remain or go away.. (ex: mack inc mining bonus or the skiff for merxoit) they did fail to mention that, hopefully they do keep the current system, it works well
Personally I'd love to see the role bonuses moved onto special enhanced mining modules that only exhumers could equip. That way we could get the role bonus we want with the amount of tank or yield we desire. They could change the role bonuses of all the exhumers to be 'can fit 1 enhanced mining module' and give the exhumers an extra mid or low slot to fit it in (can't use a hislot because then we'd have the option of fitting an extra laser instead and it could make things very complicated). I'd suggest a low slot for the module because exhumers don't have many of them to begin with and adding an extra low slot wouldn't give us very much for extra fitting options unless they radically altered the CPU/PG of the ships as well. At best it'd give us an extra slot for a cargo expander, a 3rd mining laser upgrade (would would likely be impossible to fit due to increased CPU costs), a CPU/PG upgrade (it'd make fitting strips with MLUs a bit easier on those with lower skills, but is that really such a bad thing?), or some extra armor tank modules (which are mostly useless on a shield tank ship anyhow). And to fit any of this extra stuff we'd be giving up the role bonus we'd get otherwise. The only downside to this would be that the Hulk doesn't currently have a role bonus so it'd be getting a buff by allowing it to use one of the modules, but with the incoming changes to barges and exhumers would that really be such a bad thing? |
Keeryn
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
0
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Posted - 2012.06.14 17:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
the module idea is sound, but i don't think it would work in this situation, it takes away the need for the skiff and the mack all together |
Baaa Shakiel
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
6
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Posted - 2012.06.14 18:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
As far as changes go, priority should always game balancing, utility first over skins. No one is going to fly a pretty ship so much as a D-scan Ping will pop it. Who Said that Noob Ships SuCK? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15091146#lostLoadout
Buddy Program Available - Start off with Millions of Isk! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=9874&p=10 |
Grenn Putubi
The SWAG Lab SWAG Co
9
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Posted - 2012.06.14 18:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Keeryn wrote:the module idea is sound, but i don't think it would work in this situation, it takes away the need for the skiff and the mack all together
From the tone of the dev blog it sounds like they're more interested in making the Skiff and Mack into high tank/low yield ships when compared to the Hulk. Moving the role bonuses onto modules that any exhumer could use wouldn't make the Skiff or Mack obsolete, it'd just shift them from being the 'Mercoxit ship' and the 'Ice ship' to being the 'Best tank' ship and the 'Mid tank' ship and the ships would be more flexible about what to use where. If you're in a relatively safe area, then yes the Hulk would obviously be the ship of choice because of the greater yield. But if you're not confident in your safety, then being able to bring the tank you feel safe with and still get the role bonuses for Mercoxit or Ice would be a welcome change. |
Abulurd Boniface
Shadow State SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6
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Posted - 2012.06.14 23:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
It is not my idea, but I wholly concur: the new mining frigate, a wonderful model, shall be named after one of New Eden's finest pilots: Chribba.
I like the idea of more resists for barges/exhumers. They've been the pi+Ĥata long enough, it's time they had some more heft when it comes to standing up to destroyers. They have no weapons, they do not have speed, their tank is made of rice paper [unless we're talking tanked Hulk]. Hulkageddon is now permanent. Let's even the balance a little.
Industrials should get a boost too: T3 industrials.
- either you configure them to have a much larger ore/mineral hold only
- or you configure them to crush ore, Rorqual-style, though not on that scale, obviously
- or you configure them to be a mini-refinery in places where there is no refinery [say: a worm hole]
a new take on an old, and desperately in need of some love, concept. Industrials were going to have an industrial role. They don't have an industrial role, they're mini haulers. What part of hauling inventory from A to B is considered an industrial role?
The new mining frigate will be a wonderful asset to new miners who have yet to master the art of flying dedicated barges/exhumers.
I'm not in favor of reducing the distance from barges to exhumers [ie.: the Hulk] because the Hulk is supposed to be the quintessential mining vessel. If I can do 90% of what a Hulk does [if that is what CCP has in mind], where the Covetor costs 10% of the price of a Hulk, why would I put myself in the position of the juicier target flying a Hulk?
I appreciate CCP's continued additions to the spaceship eco system [with the new Destroyers too]. More tools, more options, more tactics and strategies, can only be applauded. |
Grenn Putubi
The SWAG Lab SWAG Co
11
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Posted - 2012.06.15 01:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote:I'm not in favor of reducing the distance from barges to exhumers [ie.: the Hulk] because the Hulk is supposed to be the quintessential mining vessel'. If I can do 90% of what a Hulk does [if that is what CCP has in mind], where the Covetor costs 10% of the price of a Hulk, why would I put myself in the position of the juicier target flying a Hulk?
You've obviously got some misconceptions about the difference between a Covetor and a Hulk.
A Covetor CAN do 90% of what can Hulk can do. There are only a few major differences, 1 being the Hulk is better tanked, 2 being the Hulk has a much larger cargo bay, and 3 being that the Hulk gets a small bonus to yield. I say small bonus to yield because it's exactly that, small. At Exhumers 5 you're only getting an extra 15% yield over a Covetor, most people don't go to Exhumers 5, they stop at 4, so they're only getting an extra 12% yield over the Covetor. If you're confident you won't get ganked and have someone to haul for you the difference between a Hulk and a Covetor is negligible.
I can buy and fit a Cov for under 25mil, it costs 350mil just to buy a Hulk and you'll spend another 10mil on fittings. The cost vs benefit of a Hulk vs a Cov is tipped far in the Cov's favor unless you're expecting to get ganked, and even then the Cov has the benefit of being cheaper to replace even though it's far easier to gank. The best Hulk tank I know of barely crosses the 40k ehp mark, a Cov hits about 9-10k ehp, so against a dedicated gank attempt you're going to lose either ship. The Cov being far cheaper to replace is more than likely the ship of choice.
The only reason I fly a Hulk is that it can withstand a random gank attempt by 1 or 2 players in hisec. I don't fly it for the yield, because in the tank fit I can't use MLUs and it loses 4k ehp if I'm using T2 strips with crystals and the Cov will end up with a better yield because you don't bother putting a tank on it. And when I mine in low and nulsec I fly a Cov because I expect to get targetted and I know Concord isn't going to save me, and chances are my fleet isn't going to be able to kill anyone willing to attempt the gank before they finish me off.
If they do as they say in the devblog, the Skiff will end up with a BS sized tank. That's 100k ehp, I'll guess the Mack will end up around 60-70k ehp, and the Hulk will likely stay where it is at 30-40k ehp. If that's what they have planned then I'll gladdly fly a Mack in low and nulsec because the tank/yield will be a nice balance and with that much ehp my fleet may be able to save me. |
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