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Larinioides cornutus
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Posted - 2009.10.31 13:25:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dr Karsun I propose cloacking device fuel. I think this idea was posted somewhere.
Cov ops ships should still have next to none consumption of it (since they are specially prepared for it), but all other ships should eat it up like candy. Working like ammo for a gun. Still, any other frig-bs should be able to stay cloacked for 2-3 minutes without a problem. No idea how much exactly it would consume, but I guess it'd be a step in the right direction.
And I'm not moaning about cov ops ships, really, I love them and I feel that it should stay as it is, that they can camp endlessly, but all other ships should be highly limited.
I fully support this suggestion. Altho even max skill covops should still consume like 0.001m3 of fuel per second.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.10.31 15:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dr Karsun I propose cloacking device fuel. I think this idea was posted somewhere.
Cov ops ships should still have next to none consumption of it (since they are specially prepared for it), but all other ships should eat it up like candy. Working like ammo for a gun. Still, any other frig-bs should be able to stay cloacked for 2-3 minutes without a problem. No idea how much exactly it would consume, but I guess it'd be a step in the right direction.
And I'm not moaning about cov ops ships, really, I love them and I feel that it should stay as it is, that they can camp endlessly, but all other ships should be highly limited.
so essentially you want to nerf the ships, which are already severely gimped by fitting a cloak (targetting range/speed, no cloaked warping, dead slow moving subwarp), even more?
a cloaked battleship is way less dangerous for you than a recon e.g. imho cloak should stay as is. it is not like you cant use the surrounding systems because you got some cloaker sitting in your current system.
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Drakkan Koran
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Posted - 2009.10.31 17:23:00 -
[33]
I heard someone in another thread sugesting T2 destroyers and what they might be capable of. The suggestion I remember was a larger stealth bomber, 3 bomblaunchers 4 Torps sort of thing.
Real destroyers in the Navy excel at finding submarines. I think it's what they do. So ... can you guess what it is yet?
Aforementioned decloaking bombs and a cloaked-scan-probe launcher. Would be huge fun, and an alert cov-ops pilot would be hard to find.
This idea would need high skills and care would be needed to avoid overpowering it.
I am thinking maybe Heavy Interdictors and Cov Ops and Astrometrics all very high.
Just some noob's idea. :)
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Grarr Bexx
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Posted - 2009.10.31 19:10:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dr Karsun I propose cloacking device fuel. I think this idea was posted somewhere.
Cov ops ships should still have next to none consumption of it (since they are specially prepared for it), but all other ships should eat it up like candy. Working like ammo for a gun. Still, any other frig-bs should be able to stay cloacked for 2-3 minutes without a problem. No idea how much exactly it would consume, but I guess it'd be a step in the right direction.
And I'm not moaning about cov ops ships, really, I love them and I feel that it should stay as it is, that they can camp endlessly, but all other ships should be highly limited.
All of a sudden, absolutely NOBODY flies the pilgrim anymore. I can agree on a fuel need for regular cloaks, but covert cloaks need to be EXEMPT from the fuel mechanic.
These ships are designed to disrupt and monitor enemy movement, a mechanic countering these patterns would be highly averse to flying a covert ship.
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Cedims
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Posted - 2009.10.31 19:35:00 -
[35]
There is nothing wrong with cloaking, as it is. It really is a very simple technology, why complicate it?
And if being "close to reality" is an issue, CONCORD ought to dissolve gangs at gates and if one ship commit "suicide" by killing another ship, the whole gang ought to be penalized. It also ought to be illegal to "hang" by the gate, in general. Pfft! lol
Reality is, well, it's way in the future. Cloaking is awesomeness, and you want to spoil it? Come on, YOU get real.
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Dr Karsun
Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.31 21:45:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Grarr Bexx
Originally by: Dr Karsun I propose cloacking device fuel. I think this idea was posted somewhere.
Cov ops ships should still have next to none consumption of it (since they are specially prepared for it), but all other ships should eat it up like candy. Working like ammo for a gun. Still, any other frig-bs should be able to stay cloacked for 2-3 minutes without a problem. No idea how much exactly it would consume, but I guess it'd be a step in the right direction.
And I'm not moaning about cov ops ships, really, I love them and I feel that it should stay as it is, that they can camp endlessly, but all other ships should be highly limited.
All of a sudden, absolutely NOBODY flies the pilgrim anymore. I can agree on a fuel need for regular cloaks, but covert cloaks need to be EXEMPT from the fuel mechanic.
These ships are designed to disrupt and monitor enemy movement, a mechanic countering these patterns would be highly averse to flying a covert ship.
The covert ops and recons (so also SB and black ops) are you can say 'spetialised in cloacking' so they'd use next to no fuel - they can use covert ops cloack.
And all other ships, well, they are not ment to be cloacked, that's what covert ops are for, warping cloacked is a great plus, sure, but it'd be nice to really see the differance.
And hey, as for bs with cloacks... It's like with a spoiler on a car... If it's not mounted on a fast car it just looks cool, nothing more, but for it to actually work, you need to have a sports car going over 200km/h (or whatever is the speed that it starts to make a differance).
Fuel for cloacks is win.
Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
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Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.10.31 22:19:00 -
[37]
Please CCP, add fuel requirment to looking at local.
_
I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2009.10.31 22:32:00 -
[38]
Okay, E-war ships when they aren't fitted for E-war con fit massive, massive tanks.
Things like the Arazu. The Arazu can also fit the Covert Cyno Generator. This can pull in only Ships of the Black Ops type, (Apparently there are only 208 of the things in active service, so I know who pilots 10% of them?) which can then jump into a Cyno Jammed system.
Now imagine you had 10 of them. Now attach a Covert Jump Portal Generator to each one, just like a Titans jump bridge ability, so only one of them had to loose cap and fuel in the jump, and they all could jump back immediatly, using either a different Black Ops Jump Portal or they're own jump engines.
I thinking that the lone cloaked Red in system is harmless and weak as a kitten is only possible if you can scoff in derision at that Red's entire alliance.
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Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.11.01 00:51:00 -
[39]
The only thing that your whining about is that because you can't scan anybody down it wastes your time and messes with your mind. Well that is the point. Mind warfare is simple as that. You de-cloak to launch scan probes but suddenly boo and pew pew. Your now dead.
Or you have a massive sb fleet pawn your 150mill BS, they may lose one SB but they popped your BS by a JB by a POS. LOL Thats how its sipose to work. That is fear and its unseen death. Something you can not see scares you. Same with mining or being out in 0.0 or lowsec. Whine all you wish. Risk vs reward. You don't like it, carebear in highsec. Even then the gankers will get ya.
Best part about a cov ops fleet with recons black ops and SB's is that they can jump into your cyno jammed system and ruin your day there all day long. It makes you afraid to rat or go outside your pos. Hell they have the power to pop your pos in a 100 man fleet. Thats the point, they are all fragile ships, but they are all stealthy and expensive.
You get what you pay for. You can not justify just cus a ship can warp wile cloaked is wrong. Its called the element of surprise, its the only defense these kind of ships have. They also play a great role in their offense. How am I going to drop a bomb if I have to decloak wile warping to my targets. They will be like omg warp away. Or surprise attack for my torp runs? Torps are close range weapons, nothing like the days when we could just launch cruise missiles 250km away with a SB.
Now theres even more risk with these ships. So learn to live with the change. Its been our for awile now. Theres a saying, adapt or die. And you don't want to adapt.
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Nebulous
Minmatar Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2009.11.01 01:08:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Nebulous on 01/11/2009 01:12:13
Originally by: Hanna Red Eve prides themselves on been close to reality.
LOL I laughed my ass off at this
P.S. Stop moaning about cloaks, if there was no local (like how it should be) then you would not know the cloaker was there anyway. CCP should forum ban for a month anyone that starts a new thread on this subject, I want to come to the ideas section to find some good ideas, not a bunch of kids moaning about the same god damn crap all the time.
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Bemoteajh
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Posted - 2009.11.01 04:46:00 -
[41]
my suggestion is that you make a type of probe that send out an energy pulse that breaks all cloaks in they system or within the standard probe scan range for a period just long enough for only the best scan pilots (sp and skill) to track them down if they are afk they will be popped and podded accordingly if not he will simply warp to safe spots till he can recloak.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.11.01 05:05:00 -
[42]
Just give players a probe that can scan down cloaked ships. Then give us a semi long cooldown anti cloak ECM burst type of decloaker. Use it on a gate and suffer gate gun fire. Make the decloaker a specialty ship item and give it to somthing that can't tank gate guns.
Well maybe the decloaker is a bad idea unless it's got like a 5k or less radius. Still there needs to be a way to scan down afk cloakers and inattentive cloakers. There should be more risk associated with cloaking then just accidentally getting blown up on a gate cause you ****ed up.
People should fear going afk in space, even with cloak. Players actively piloting thier ships with a cloak should have some reason for concern as well. Everyone associates cloaks with submarines. Let me tell you from first hand experience, subs are hard to find, but they sure as hell don't magicly dissapear from all sensors. They have to actively avoid detection.
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Raw Matters
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Posted - 2009.11.02 21:08:00 -
[43]
There are a few options against cloakers: 1. Get some tank. My Myrmidon can tank 2 SBs while hunting rats, so I don't fear cloakers and they generally ignore me. 2. Get some friends. As soon as you are no longer alone, it can be as deadly for the cloaker as for you. 3. Bait and kill. Cloakers search for easy prey, so give them a retriever and 3 SBs cloaked next to it.
The fact alone that jumping through a gate can be deadly for any cloaker balances Covert Ops imo.
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Hanna Red
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Posted - 2009.11.05 13:21:00 -
[44]
As i said very easelly sorted and it does not really affect the covert ops much, after all they still can cloak and be unscanable for long periods of time... 1-Fuel covert cloak, fuel runs out, no more cloak 2-Tie down the covert cloak to a timer. Means the covert cloak will uncloak after lets say an hour automatically. And the user can recloak when he presses cloak again 3-The covert ops cloak with pin point. At the start its hard to pin point but as time passes it easier to pin point...kinda realistic with the idea of sub atomic particles been released..
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Scouteye
Locasta Tactical
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Posted - 2009.11.05 14:57:00 -
[45]
omg good people get a grip!
The social aspects of this game, chats, commanders, communication between players, these aspects may cross the divide between virtual riality and the real world but oh my, look around, are you sitting in a ****ing pod?
is your thorax parked out side, and you going home to dock in your station?, do you work as a starbase fuel technician (nasa boys dont answer that )
internet spaceships, thats what your playing here, compairing real SAS soliders and their tactics to a covert ops space ship in an internet spacships game... thats mental!
Put your feet back down on the ground and consider the ship within its own surroundings, its own context.
it cloaks, it cant be seen, it can see you but you cant see it. You cant attack it BUT neither can it attack you until it decloaks!
It can give intel on you, and you can setup big nasty traps to kill its ass when it tries to leave OR create a comotion in system and bait to fly to a trap.
Theres always a way to get cloakers. If they trully are AFK, then they are of no worry to you, they are not effecting you, how are they harming you?
Send a BS out in a belt, have it rat 30 mins, if no one shows up the cloakers afk :)
Have your own scouts and intel chanels open so you can see whats going on, scout the enemy out, see if they have Black ops on standby outside a station ready to hot drop.
Think, use your minds but ffs what ever you do dont compair an internet space with real life soliders who are currently helping keeping your sorry ass out of a body bag in some way. What they are doing is far more important than anything to do with internet spaceships and your whine.
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Ovous
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Posted - 2009.11.05 15:31:00 -
[46]
why not just have a t2 smart bomb fittable only to SB's that has a range of 20km (+10% range per level of energy emissions)and does 1em damage but has a high pulse rate of like 10 seconds (reduced by 1 second ((10%)) per level of electronic upgrades)
so with max skills you will have 5 second rotation 30km ranged pulse that hits everything in range for 1EM damage, uses very little cap. this way the cloakers will have to be clever with positioning and SB wont just be paper torp boats any longer.
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers Elysium.
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Posted - 2009.11.06 00:34:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Hanna Red Good valid points but i still u cannot be logged or afk for 24 hours in a system and not been able to be scanned.
Boomers (Nuclear Missile Submarines) can and do exactly this and they do it for months.
There are things that can detect them of course, and people working day and night to try and defeat those things and so on.
However yes they can hide for extended periods of time and yes, they do the equivalent of 'afk' at sea.
Quote: Oh and bytherway even stealth planes today can be piced up if they stay too long in the same area, so i dont see how in here u cant
Actual stealth aircraft abilities are still highly classified so you might not want to make such silly pronouncements. Very few folks know their real capabilities.
I used to work with low detection aircraft in the military (and my info is sadly long out of date) so I do have some real world expertise in this.
And, of course, being aircraft they don't stay anywhere very long or they fall out of the sky. No one has ever built a stealth VTOL or helicopter.
Quote: ...thats just purelly wrong. If you want to do recon, great do, but be active at it, but stay afk waiting for oppurtunity to strike without no way to get you, that just wrong, specially when u can be in a system without no way of scaning you out.
I didn't say that there should be no way. I said that it should be a specialty skill and that it should require special equipment and that, for really stealthy craft, it should be very nearly impossible, particularly if they are in deep space somewhere.
Space is big and mostly empty. If you're not emitting it's very very easy to hide something in it. Even something fairly large because it is SO big.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
WuChiJIanRen
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Posted - 2009.11.06 00:48:00 -
[48]
Realistic? Ridiculous!
Is covert ops overpowered?
No!
So no change.
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Roland Five
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Posted - 2009.11.06 02:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Hanna Red Edited by: Hanna Red on 29/10/2009 14:18:47 Edited by: Hanna Red on 29/10/2009 14:15:15 In the real world when you talk about covert, you will discovered if you remain still within an area for too long. Almost anywhere you go there are people sitting a distance from a gate cloaked in covert ops for hours upon hours with no real punishment/consequence and all the advantages. I think this should be changed. This game is about micro and i feel that this is an area that is getting massively exploited.
I disagree. I don't think there is any exploitation here at all. The individual sitting cloaked in a system (near a gate or not) is not doing anything but waiting so there shouldn't be any consequences. I don't think sitting should be penalized. Ships that are AFK are not a risk to anyone else. It is the ships that are being piloted that are dangerous. I'll also add that covert cloaks only fit on a limited group of ships and none of those ships are so incredibly awesome individually that they should be nerfed. In a way, covert ops cloaks are pre-nerfed.
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Markus Reese
Caldari Lorentzian Expeditionaries
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Posted - 2009.11.06 02:59:00 -
[50]
I am against a cloak fuel for one reason, that is as an explorer. I will be deep in lowsec for hours or more on end. Would need to be able to carry like 5 or more hours of fuel to make it work.
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Detur Digniori
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Posted - 2009.11.06 11:29:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Detur Digniori on 06/11/2009 11:29:52 Edited by: Detur Digniori on 06/11/2009 11:29:30 Totally ludicrous, topic starter as crying carebear to which disturb hunting hanging in local neutrals . The most correct decision to remover local and the problem will be solved!
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Germaldi's Mum
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Posted - 2009.11.06 12:28:00 -
[52]
leave the cloak alone......... quit whining cos someone is hidden in system.
just cos u find it an inconveinence that prevents your macro from ratting is no reason to kill off a whole class of tactical warfare. Nerfing the cloak would kill off blackops fleets, and gate camps (yes usually a cloaked scout is there to warn ya of an approaching victim or blob).
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Hanna Red
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Posted - 2009.11.06 12:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Detur Digniori Edited by: Detur Digniori on 06/11/2009 11:29:52 Edited by: Detur Digniori on 06/11/2009 11:29:30 Totally ludicrous, topic starter as crying carebear to which disturb hunting hanging in local neutrals . The most correct decision to remover local and the problem will be solved!
lol why not make them invinsible while you are it hehehe
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Hanna Red
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Posted - 2009.11.06 12:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Germaldi's Mum leave the cloak alone......... quit whining cos someone is hidden in system.
just cos u find it an inconveinence that prevents your macro from ratting is no reason to kill off a whole class of tactical warfare. Nerfing the cloak would kill off blackops fleets, and gate camps (yes usually a cloaked scout is there to warn ya of an approaching victim or blob).
Last time i heard, requesting a change is not whining. Otherwise i am sure you have done some whining yourself. And perhaps i have not explained myself well. I dont want to nerf the black ops. I am against nerfing the black ops infact. I am asking to change so that the recon ships that cyno those black ops ships cant say cloaked FOREVER without been scanned, that is wrong. Not the black ops but the recon ships that got the covert ops cloak. So the black ops wont get affected just the recon. Thats my idea.
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2009.11.06 13:10:00 -
[55]
Fuel for all cloaked ships, except covert ops frigate. Yes, stealth bomber needs fuel too, just not much.
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Detur Digniori
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Posted - 2009.11.06 13:32:00 -
[56]
Stop write bosh! The shred on that and a shred, differently from it will not be to use. If you the beginnings about it. That should be remove safe afk on pos/station/ remove local.
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Hanna Red
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Posted - 2009.11.06 14:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Detur Digniori Stop write bosh! The shred on that and a shred, differently from it will not be to use. If you the beginnings about it. That should be remove safe afk on pos/station/ remove local.
lol once again, you dont make sence XD
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Osvaldr Adridian
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.06 17:11:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Hanna Red
Originally by: Detur Digniori Stop write bosh! The shred on that and a shred, differently from it will not be to use. If you the beginnings about it. That should be remove safe afk on pos/station/ remove local.
lol once again, you dont make sence XD
Just give it a rest, your idea is rubbish.
As they say "If it aint broken, don't fix it." and regardless on if you think it's broken or not the majority of this thread AND CCP thinks it's fine and working as intended. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.11.06 17:53:00 -
[59]
a solution looking for a problem
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Lo KeTral
Amarr Ravenous Pathogen
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Posted - 2009.11.07 01:31:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Dr Karsun I propose cloacking device fuel.
Now this would be not a bad idea, granted, I myself like it as it is. However, to make things a lil more fair for carebears and cry babies, I could live with this idea.
Why do people play Amarr? Because unlike the other races, Amarr characters are much more difficult to play. |
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