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Steel Boo
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Posted - 2009.10.17 16:53:00 -
[1]
Right i love flying my harby but want to have a go at a Zealot which i am training up for now.. What i would like to know is this... Is it worth it ? On Battleclinic alot of ppl say to stick to the harby as it has a better tank more dps and cheaper but TBH i have not seen a fit in there that i can say i like ( but not having flown a zealot im sure some of you will say try them first ) I like to PvP solo alot so tackle is a issue with the zealot ? right or wrong ? I have just joined a corp that gangs pvp so we get cap and armour loving so harby is very nice to use in this. So ideas plz ppl do i stay in the harby for solo pvp or is there a good Zealot fit that will do the job better ? Oh and just to let you know i have all gunnery support skils lvl 5 apart from AWU and all armour comp skills & repair skills to lvl 5. navigation skills are all at 4.Just to give you an idea before some one says " Depends on what your skills are like "
Comments plz
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.10.17 17:11:00 -
[2]
Zealot for sniping, Harbinger for pretty much everything else.
Whilst the Zealot has advantages over the harbinger, they only really come into play when sniping. The rest of the time, the EHP and DPS advantage of the Harbinger is better.
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Misaniovent
Blood Phage Syndicate Dark Solar Empire
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Posted - 2009.10.17 17:23:00 -
[3]
You will want a Harbinger for solo work, thanks to its drones, fourth midslot, and utility high. It holds up significantly better as well.
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Schmexy Wexy
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Posted - 2009.10.17 17:25:00 -
[4]
They are both excellent ships for different reasons.
The Zealot can be OK at tackling, but having to keep point totally negates your range advantage over a harb. What the Zealot has going for it here, over the Harb, is speed to better dictate range and smaller sig to better deal with torps. Larger targets that might be able to melt a harb usually have a harder time dealing with a much more nimble Zealot.
Typically, the Zealots role is only DPS at range in a fleet with other snipe HACs. But it can tackle and it can solo if you pick your fights wisely. The only thing you really need to stay away from is frigs with MWDs. Otherwise the Zealot has got a fairly decent range of ships that it can engage solo. |
demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus
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Posted - 2009.10.17 17:30:00 -
[5]
i would use the harb for most everything but sniping there id use a zealot
but if you want something a bit more nimble than a harb look at the navy omen te drone bay is nice to have on it
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VanNostrum
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.17 18:53:00 -
[6]
can't solo with a Zealot, a T1 frig that lands on you will kill you
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xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.17 21:01:00 -
[7]
I use beams with my zealot and pulse with my harbi. It makes the best sense.
Some ppl use pulse with zealot, but its not worth it unless you are an EXCELLENT manual pilot who can keep it out of web range.
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Kirzath
Blackwater Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.17 21:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: xxxak Some ppl use pulse with zealot, but its not worth it unless you are an EXCELLENT manual pilot who can keep it out of web range.
Keeping out of web range with 35km Scorch is difficult?
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kirzath
Originally by: xxxak Some ppl use pulse with zealot, but its not worth it unless you are an EXCELLENT manual pilot who can keep it out of web range.
Keeping out of web range with 35km Scorch is difficult?
45km on mine
Originally by: Misaniovent You will want a Harbinger for solo work, thanks to its drones, fourth midslot, and utility high. It holds up significantly better as well.
this is all to say. ___________________
---[SAY NO TO CYNO-LOGISTICS]---
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Devine Winds
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Posted - 2009.10.17 23:29:00 -
[10]
Zealot for sniping. If you want something fast and powerful take a look at the omen navy issue. Harbinger is a safer bet in most circumstances
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.17 23:40:00 -
[11]
Zealots (like most hacs) are only worth using in sniper gangs. Its an excellent sniper hac though.
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Steel Boo
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Posted - 2009.10.18 00:20:00 -
[12]
well been looking at the omen navy now : ) with eft with current skils looks like a very very good ship. ty for all the feed back.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.10.18 00:32:00 -
[13]
So I really like the Pulse Zealot, since I haven't ever really needed to fit it with beams. It's fast and with a 40+km optimal and excellent tracking it can project a lot of damage to just about anything on the field within that range. 450-500 dps with Scorch is nothing to sneeze at.
But, if you're not going to be abusing the Zealot's range bonus, don't fly it. A navy omen is faster and more flexible at close range and a Harbinger is of course even more damaging (not by too much though) and much, much cheaper. You don't have to be fitting beams though to abuse the range bonus. The difference between 23k range and 43k is, well, huge.
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Lucia Wilber
King's Pride Manufacturing Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.18 01:40:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 18/10/2009 01:43:53 When designing a Harbinger fit, most people forget that the Harby gets a bonus to ALL lasers, not just mediums like most medium-sized ships. Because of this, it can save a lot of powergrid by fitting Medium Pulse Laser IIs (Small-sized turrets) and still get a nice bit of DPS with the added ability to easily track frigates and other fast-moving targets. That extra powergrid can be used to slap on big plates if you want lots of EHP. You can get a Harbinger up to around 60,000 EHP, which is comparable to many battleships. It's a very versatile ship.
Originally by: Steel Boo well been looking at the omen navy now : ) with eft with current skils looks like a very very good ship. ty for all the feed back.
You will run into trolls regarding a PvP NOmen, telling you it's not a good PvP ship. However, while a little more expensive, the NOmen is a very nice PvP ship. It fits nicely between the Omen and the Zealot, and is surprisingly effective at PvP thanks to the number of slots it has.
You will be flying a NOmen basically the exact same way you'd fly a Zealot, you'll just have to be a little more careful.
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2009.10.18 03:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lucia Wilber When designing a Harbinger fit, most people forget that the Harby gets a bonus to ALL lasers, not just mediums like most medium-sized ships. Because of this, it can save a lot of powergrid by fitting Medium Pulse Laser IIs (Small-sized turrets) and still get a nice bit of DPS with the added ability to easily track frigates and other fast-moving targets. That extra powergrid can be used to slap on big plates if you want lots of EHP. You can get a Harbinger up to around 60,000 EHP, which is comparable to many battleships. It's a very versatile ship.
You could also fit artillery? Why would you ever do that either? Harbs are for ganking, not tanking and killing frigs. Unless you somehow want to use it as bait -- and I suppose that might end up being effective.
Originally by: Lucia Wilber You will run into trolls regarding a PvP NOmen, telling you it's not a good PvP ship. However, while a little more expensive, the NOmen is a very nice PvP ship. It fits nicely between the Omen and the Zealot, and is surprisingly effective at PvP thanks to the number of slots it has.
Really? My experience has been a solid run of people praising the NOmen (except for on price). Seems to be one of the better navy-issue cruisers. And it's pretty as all hell.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.18 03:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lucia Wilber Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 18/10/2009 01:43:53 When designing a Harbinger fit, most people forget that the Harby gets a bonus to ALL lasers, not just mediums like most medium-sized ships. Because of this, it can save a lot of powergrid by fitting Medium Pulse Laser IIs (Small-sized turrets) and still get a nice bit of DPS with the added ability to easily track frigates and other fast-moving targets. That extra powergrid can be used to slap on big plates if you want lots of EHP. You can get a Harbinger up to around 60,000 EHP, which is comparable to many battleships. It's a very versatile ship.
First off, I'm pretty sure the bonus doesn't actually apply to small or large lasers. It's just badly worded in the description. Second, you don't need to gimp yourself to get 60kehp. It does it just fine with focused medium pulse 2s, and it can even fit a med neut and cap booster too. There is absolutely no reason to use small lasers.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Jintra Jin'tak
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Posted - 2009.10.19 09:45:00 -
[17]
Harbinger, pvp] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Adaptive Nano Plating II
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M [empty high slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
With LG slaves, there you have your ~60k ehp.
If you want it tanky, don't bother with small lasers, use Quad-light-Beams (nearly same dps and tracking as FMP's for lower fitting reqs) as in
[Harbinger, thelols] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M [empty high slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5 80k w/o, 91k w/ lg-slaves and still > 600 Dps (but slow as hell. Not gonna catch anything. More a baitbinger there)
Keep it cheap, though, cause you will lose BC's in solo work pretty regularly due to Solo actually doesn't mean, your enemy is solo, too. ;) So all other than baiting, I go with the first fit to go in, gank whatever possible and gtfo or die from the incomming blob/gang.
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.10.19 12:14:00 -
[18]
The harbinger is vastly superior for solo or small gang. The zealot is a sniper ship. It does less damage, has less tank and tbh it isn't really any faster if you tank it. It also lacks a drone bay which is a very serious problem when you've got a frigate on you. The totally generic cookie cutter harb setup is what I recommend. That setup is:
7x fmp II's, empty high slot mwd, warp disruptor II, web, medium cap injector MARII, DCII, 2x EANMII, 1600mm RT plate, HSII 3x trimarks 5x valkryies, 5x medium ECM, or a mix of lights
Gets about 75k EHP with a very light active tank (repping in space is win) and does about 500-550 dps with valkyries. Effective combat range is 24km and optimal is 19km with scorch. Best method is to get a few free shots in at 20km before closing in and letting loose with AN multifrequency. -----------------------------------------------------
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Lollipops for Rancors
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Posted - 2009.10.19 13:03:00 -
[19]
^^
failfit is not cookie cutter, doesn't field a neut despite having spare PG and seems to have generated a double size drone bay.
Standard cookie cutter: [Harbinger, PvP Harbie] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M 50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Hornet EC-300 x5 Warrior II x5
Can mix and match drones for more jamming / DPS, can swap DC II for a HS II according to taste.
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.10.19 13:42:00 -
[20]
Why would you have a Medium Cap Booster on a ship that isn't actively tanked? _________________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.19 13:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Suas Why would you have a Medium Cap Booster on a ship that isn't actively tanked?
Hmmm... perhaps because lasers, MWDs, webs and scrams all need cap?
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Steel Boo
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Posted - 2009.10.19 13:48:00 -
[22]
Away from pc ATM so cant see fittings but i used a fit every close to dodgy pasts but iirc i have a 400mm plate and use t2 heavies for extra range ( an extra 1000m and dps about 650 = 700 odd with drones )and ehp is abut 50k. Will post my fitting when i get home or tomorrow. There are 3 i use 1 for soloing cruisers and battle cruisers 1 for gang dps and tackle ( with love fron a logistics ) and the last is just basic dps with 3 HS'S , DCU T2 , EAMN T2 + 2, MWD, DISRUTOR, SCRAM, WEB, and a full rack of heavy t2,
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.10.19 13:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Suas Why would you have a Medium Cap Booster on a ship that isn't actively tanked?
Hmmm... perhaps because lasers, MWDs, webs and scrams all need cap?
The neut too. But there's no need for a Medium Cap Booster since you aren't using the MWD 24/7. _________________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
Renarla
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Posted - 2009.10.19 14:02:00 -
[24]
Okay, you all go fit a sensor booster or ECCM in that last mid, and we'll lol while you run out of cap. However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Suas
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Suas Why would you have a Medium Cap Booster on a ship that isn't actively tanked?
Hmmm... perhaps because lasers, MWDs, webs and scrams all need cap?
The neut too. But there's no need for a Medium Cap Booster since you aren't using the MWD 24/7.
And... what if the other guy has a neut?
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Galliana Foresta
Fleeting Moments of Insanity
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Posted - 2009.10.19 22:03:00 -
[26]
They're right, you don't need a medium cap booster at all.
What they fail to mention is that you should be putting a small cap booster in there, and using the spare grid for other sexy things.
Though to be fair, a harb without a booster of any description is fine as long as you're not engaged in an extended fight.
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Dirk Mortice
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Posted - 2009.10.19 22:50:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lucia Wilber Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 18/10/2009 01:43:53 When designing a Harbinger fit, most people forget that the Harby gets a bonus to ALL lasers, not just mediums like most medium-sized ships. Because of this, it can save a lot of powergrid by fitting Medium Pulse Laser IIs (Small-sized turrets) and still get a nice bit of DPS with the added ability to easily track frigates and other fast-moving targets. That extra powergrid can be used to slap on big plates if you want lots of EHP. You can get a Harbinger up to around 60,000 EHP, which is comparable to many battleships. It's a very versatile ship.
wow.......
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Galliana Foresta
Fleeting Moments of Insanity
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Posted - 2009.10.20 00:46:00 -
[28]
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.10.20 04:52:00 -
[29]
Edited by: King Rothgar on 20/10/2009 04:55:45
Originally by: Dodgy Past ^^
failfit is not cookie cutter, doesn't field a neut despite having spare PG and seems to have generated a double size drone bay.
Standard cookie cutter: [Harbinger, PvP Harbie] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M 50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Hornet EC-300 x5 Warrior II x5
Can mix and match drones for more jamming / DPS, can swap DC II for a HS II according to taste.
Obviously you can't fit 100m3 of drones, I meant 5x mediums or 5x medum ecm or 10 lights of whatever you want. Also, 1 medium neut is absolutely worthless. Try my setup, it works better than yours. Try less EFT warrioring and play the game. In fact, I'd be happy to show you first hand in game.
Edit: The medium cap injector is pretty important. You don't need it to run the guns unless neuted but you do need it for the mwd and other crap. It's not an issue in a quick fight but in one that draws out for several minutes (this does happen) it becomes a real issue. It is also more important with my setup as it is partially active tanked. Even with the dual HSII setup, it's still needed for mwd but it isn't as critical. -----------------------------------------------------
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Jintra Jin'tak
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Posted - 2009.10.20 08:58:00 -
[30]
Originally by: King Rothgar Edited by: King Rothgar on 20/10/2009 04:55:45
Originally by: Dodgy Past ^^ pretty standard CC-fit
Obviously you can't fit 100m3 of drones, I meant 5x mediums or 5x medum ecm or 10 lights of whatever you want. Also, 1 medium neut is absolutely worthless. Try my setup, it works better than yours. Try less EFT warrioring and play the game. In fact, I'd be happy to show you first hand in game.
Edit: The medium cap injector is pretty important. You don't need it to run the guns unless neuted but you do need it for the mwd and other crap. It's not an issue in a quick fight but in one that draws out for several minutes (this does happen) it becomes a real issue. It is also more important with my setup as it is partially active tanked. Even with the dual HSII setup, it's still needed for mwd but it isn't as critical.
The Neut is there to counter Frig-sized targets and to cripple oh-so-mighty active-tanked BC's without the need to cripple your own dps by downgrading drones. In the end it comes down to personal liking and fighting style.
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