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Dr Karsun Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.17 12:41:00 - [1] Hmm, I've made fittings in EFT of both the kronos and MNE, all skills level 5... And it occured to me, that buying a kronos seems completely idiotic when these ships are compared. Getthing the MNE cap stable is easier, because it has 1 more rig slot. Getting a higher dps is possible without a problem on the MNE even with keeping a salvager and a tractor on it... The MNE is only half of the kronos price. The only 'advantage' of the kronos seems to be the 40km tractor beam range instead of 20... That's not really something worth 500m now, is it? And why does the kronos have only 75mb drone badwitch? I mean, it's stupid, it's a gallente ship... The minamtar and amarr versions have the exact same! It only can fit more drones (As if it helped in anything). If it had 125 it would be more probable to have a point... Especially that the T1 version (megathron) even has 125? What is the rational reason to buy a kronos at all in this case? Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
King Dave D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.10.17 12:48:00 - [2] Better tank, less ammo consumption, web bonus and tractor beam. But I think that's it...
Dr Karsun Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.17 12:51:00 - [3] Ammo isn't really a problem, it's dirt cheap when it comes to pve... Especially if you produce it your self (As I do). And better tank... Well, not like 1 amarr navy LAR and around 90% reists aren't enough to tank any mission... Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
Sentinel Borg	Posted - 2009.10.17 13:09:00 - [4] Originally by: Dr Karsun And why does the kronos have only 75mb drone badwitch? I mean, it's stupid, it's a gallente ship... The minamtar and amarr versions have the exact same! It only can fit more drones (As if it helped in anything). If it had 125 it would be more probable to have a point... Especially that the T1 version (megathron) even has 125? What is the rational reason to buy a kronos at all in this case? It had 125 mbit/s when it was first release to SiSi. But later on it was nerfed, because it was doing a bit more damage then the Paladin at this time. Well, the Paladin and Amarr got buffed multiple times since then, so nowadays the Kronos is clearly inferior. An increase to 100 mbit/s would be a good idea.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.17 13:45:00 - [5] You can fit it without running into huge cpu issues. You lose way less ammo (=use faction ammo). 40km tractors are a huge bonus, especially combined with the 90% web. It does more dps (yes it really needs 100 bandwidth, or what would be awesome 125 bandwidth + 150 bay, but still 8 effective guns > 7 guns). It has quite a bit better capacitor. (With 2 CRs and CCCII + 2x CCC I on navy mega i get +54.9 with lvl V, Kronos with 2 CRs + 2x CCC II gets +61.9. And it uses less cap (your tank bonus + t2 resists allow you to use one hardener less, which also compensates for one low slot less. And you only got 4 guns firing instead of 7). And it is quite a bit faster.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.10.17 13:47:00 - [6] Kronos makes more ISK/hr because it can salvage and loot quicker..that's a major advantage. And with the fewer guns, faction ammo becomes a possibility so you can finish the missions faster, too. 169 dead caps caught on video
Blonde Shopper	Posted - 2009.10.17 14:10:00 - [7] I'm currently facing the same choice train the Kronos, or stick with T2 sentries 1st? -A navythron can field (right now) 4 sentries and a flight of lights... Come DOMINION, navythron gets 150-175m3 of bay -With 5xT2 sentries, navythron has more dps than a Kronos. -There is a Kronos fit with a T2 ROF rig that comes (with 3x T2 sentries) like 40-50 DPS over (but Paladin-DPS only comes with faction AM ammo) Either train for T2 sentries 1st, but won't be able to use more than 3 at a time with kronos later (in exchange for the xtra gun 4x2=8). Or train for a Kronos 1st n stick to lights/meds (which I have maxed out)? T2 sentries mean higher DPS than BS V right now... I have all drone support (sentry and heavys T1 still) and gun support on 5 (T2 rails on 3 atm)... Sad part is a Domi with shield-tank, rails, and 1 drone rig, can pretty much match the DPS of either ship n its rat-specific dmg for the most part The shield tank would be a bit flimsy, but if you use a tank ship, not a huge deal (navy domi anyone?)...
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.10.17 14:22:00 - [8] T2 sentries are awesome all-around so train those first. 169 dead caps caught on video
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.10.17 14:35:00 - [9] Dr Karsun said "Ammo isn't really a problem, it's dirt cheap when it comes to pve... Especially if you produce it your self (As I do)." That's where you're going wrong. A Kronos with Navy ammo is far better isk rise. I never use normal ammo these days Navy is so much faster and the Kronos lowers the price by 50%. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Alpha India	Posted - 2009.10.17 14:58:00 - [10] Are you all saying that Marauders should have 3 rig slots? I'm all for it!

Dr Karsun Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.17 15:23:00 - [11] Well, yeah, the kronos could use another rig slot. And a normal 125 drones bandwitch. Then after I get a carrier I'll probably look around for the kronos skills, there is a chance they will finally boost it a bit in the future, right? BTW, I'm highly afraid the fed navy domi coming in in sisi will be far better... In every possible way than the kronos... Drones with bonus damage, guns with bonus damage, enough slots to tank vitrually anything and perma run an ab and 2x amarr navy LAR, with a set of 2x2 tractors and salvagers, the ultimate mission running ship? Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
Shatner19	Posted - 2009.10.17 15:44:00 - [12] i agree with the ship needing an upgrade with the dominion changes. come on you're changing everything else, projectiles, the entire buttload of faction ships, titans, supercarriers, sov. why not this one little change to make a 1 bil isk ship competitive with a bizarre shield tanked domi worth <50m (hull only). ive flown both ships, MNE prior now using a kronos. the MNE does have fitting issues (cpu), but for the expense of the kronos, ive only seen a 10-15% performance increase (+ 1 gun), tank being fairly equal, (8 slots vs 7 with a rep bonus). generally there are only 2 ways to fix the ship. #1. 125 mb bandwidth with a 200mb dronebay (5 sents, 5 meds, 5 lights). its freaking gallente, give it the drone advantage, not something equal to the other ships in its class. and/or. #2. a 5-10% base damage increase on railguns (increased dps and alpha, possible increase in fitting reqs as balance).
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.17 15:55:00 - [13] Why would you want to perma run a dual LAR + AB on a mission ship? The only reason to fit dual lar is allready if you go afk during the missions, and then just use a normal domi.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.17 18:56:00 - [14] errm what fits are you comparing? and no the kronos can't really even compete with paladin dps, even with faction ammo. with rails of course, with blasters it can do some awesome 1500+ dps, but has such limited range and just throwing sentries on without tracking links is borderline eft warrioring
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.17 19:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Dr Karsun BTW, I'm highly afraid the fed navy domi coming in in sisi will be far better... In every possible way than the kronos... Drones with bonus damage, guns with bonus damage, enough slots to tank vitrually anything and perma run an ab and 2x amarr navy LAR, with a set of 2x2 tractors and salvagers, the ultimate mission running ship? Ok, I lol'd a little, you have no idea what you are saying do you? 2 guns 2 tractors 2 salvagers, with dual rep, afterburner and loads of cap mods, sounds fantastic
NoNah	Posted - 2009.10.17 19:34:00 - [16] The navy domi will be awesome for missions. As long as you stick to shieldtanking it, using lows for damage upgrades, highs for rails and mids for omnitracking links, just like the original domi. As for op, ow on earth do you shorten Megathron Navy Issue to MNE? Kronos gets 75mbit, because of balance issues. Even with 125Mbit it wouldn't be any good for missions so doesn't really matter however. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 685891
Blonde Shopper	Posted - 2009.10.17 20:50:00 - [17] These 2 fits are solo, though I'm using a support Domi for 2xtracking links, energy and some RR, small drones or sentries depending on what's needed: [Kronos, Forum DPS Solo-AB] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II True Sansha Large Armor Repairer Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed True Sansha Medium Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 100MN Afterburner II 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Garde II x3 Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 the navythron, I took the liberty of adding all 5 sentries, since the change is coming: [Megathron Navy Issue, T2 / Faction] Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener True Sansha Large Armor Repairer Gallente Navy Tracking Computer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Small Tractor Beam I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Garde II x5 the MNE has 1 tracking comp less since it's not using cap-boosters (but rechargers). The Kronos can tank ~150 dps more, their DPS is within 2 points. None are using OMNI trackers for the sentries, so it's EFT warrioring for sure... If it wasn't it'd be SAD numbers from either ship Feel free to poke at these fits, I'm all ears from experienced feedback... Yes, flying a Paladin starts to look like a better idea, but would prefer not to...
Dr Karsun Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.17 21:00:00 - [18] Edited by: Dr Karsun on 17/10/2009 21:00:30 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Ok, I lol'd a little, you have no idea what you are saying do you? 2 guns 2 tractors 2 salvagers, with dual rep, afterburner and loads of cap mods, sounds fantastic Actually, I do, depending what you want... A ship that can run the mission ultra-fast (gain 10-15 mins on every mission that normally takes 40) or just do the mission in 40 and NOT have to waste 10-15 mins later when coming back in a salvaging ship warping from room to room. EDIT - not room to room, just from one place to another, I feel trolls near and they will say I should give the mission back first... I do know that should be done. Still, the conversation is not about any exact setup, do it as you like. I'm only pointing out that with the new domi and the MNI the kronos completely loses it's point, giving a really slight boost for a... 800-900m higher price than a new domi? Just makes me not see the point of skilling the kronos at all. Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
Alberico DeSandre	Posted - 2009.10.17 21:03:00 - [19] I have gallente battleship V, i've flown a navy mega for well over 800,000LP worth of level 4s. I've never tried a kronos because it looks like the worst marauder around on paper. - The drone bay is too small. - 8 Low slots on the navy mega lets you fit a tank and dps equal to MOST kronos fits. Basically there is one reason to get a kronos; better ammo efficiency for faction ammo. For the extra ~400,000,000 you're paying for that kronos you can probably buy a lot of faction ammo for your navy mega. The ship is also much easier to get cap stable, but for raw dps it's really no difference. If you want a real marauder train for a paladin or a golem. Instead of jumping into a kronos i switched to crosstraining toward a CNR and Golem. Takes about 90 days but well worth it.
Miriiah	Posted - 2009.10.17 22:08:00 - [20] Kronos needs 125m3 bandwidth and 150m3 drone bay to be as good as the other marauders(minus Vargur due to broken AC's, and CCP still refusing to fix it)

demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.10.18 00:14:00 - [21] ive dont both and the kronos does pull ahead in over all missioning time (killing and clean up) and its a better tank how ever its only really good for killing serps/gal/cal/gur if you find your self killing something other than those you may want to look at a diff ship
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.18 01:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Dr Karsun Edited by: Dr Karsun on 17/10/2009 21:00:30 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Ok, I lol'd a little, you have no idea what you are saying do you? 2 guns 2 tractors 2 salvagers, with dual rep, afterburner and loads of cap mods, sounds fantastic Actually, I do, depending what you want... A ship that can run the mission ultra-fast (gain 10-15 mins on every mission that normally takes 40) or just do the mission in 40 and NOT have to waste 10-15 mins later when coming back in a salvaging ship warping from room to room. EDIT - not room to room, just from one place to another, I feel trolls near and they will say I should give the mission back first... I do know that should be done. Still, the conversation is not about any exact setup, do it as you like. I'm only pointing out that with the new domi and the MNI the kronos completely loses it's point, giving a really slight boost for a... 800-900m higher price than a new domi? Just makes me not see the point of skilling the kronos at all. hmm sounds like you want a kronos, it will drum roll do both! which is the another drum roll point of a kronos, killing stuff and looting/salvaging at the same time. oh noes the golem is ineffective too because a cnr can blitz missions faster (according to Liang) yes a navy domi will be able to complete missions faster then a kronos, but it wont be able to complete faster and loot/salvage the mission faster then the kronos. and if anyone is going to troll you it won't be about if you turn the mission in first then go back to salvage or not.
Caius Severus	Posted - 2009.10.18 02:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Blonde Shopper These 2 fits are solo, though I'm using a support Domi for 2xtracking links, energy and some RR, small drones or sentries depending on what's needed: [Kronos, Forum DPS Solo-AB] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II True Sansha Large Armor Repairer Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed True Sansha Medium Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 100MN Afterburner II 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Garde II x3 Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 the navythron, I took the liberty of adding all 5 sentries, since the change is coming: [Megathron Navy Issue, T2 / Faction] Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener True Sansha Large Armor Repairer Gallente Navy Tracking Computer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Small Tractor Beam I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Garde II x5 the MNE has 1 tracking comp less since it's not using cap-boosters (but rechargers). The Kronos can tank ~150 dps more, their DPS is within 2 points. None are using OMNI trackers for the sentries, so it's EFT warrioring for sure... If it wasn't it'd be SAD numbers from either ship Feel free to poke at these fits, I'm all ears from experienced feedback... Yes, flying a Paladin starts to look like a better idea, but would prefer not to... I use a Kronos almost fit like that, except I use a web instead of AB most of the time. There aren't really all that many missions where an AB is more useful, as most gates are close by now. There are the odd couple, but you can change as necessary. I use faction ammo, and also carry both scripts for the tracking computers - you can hit almost 50km optimal with antimatter, which makes a big difference to damage on target. Navy mega is incredibly tight for fitting at the moment, but that will be fixed in Dominion. I don't like relying on sentry drones to make up dps for a gun boat, becausei hate having to sit still until you have finished shooting. Gardes also have only 23km or so optimal without omnitracking links which limits their useability somewhat. The other thing it is most definately worth doing is getting the 2 5% damage implants (ZGL1000 and CX-2), and you should be getting well over 800dps with ok skills. That is enough to rip through most missions pretty fast, and especially guristas and serps.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.18 04:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Caius Severus I use a Kronos almost fit like that, except I use a web instead of AB most of the time. There aren't really all that many missions where an AB is more useful, as most gates are close by now. There are the odd couple, but you can change as necessary. I use faction ammo, and also carry both scripts for the tracking computers - you can hit almost 50km optimal with antimatter, which makes a big difference to damage on target. Navy mega is incredibly tight for fitting at the moment, but that will be fixed in Dominion. I don't like relying on sentry drones to make up dps for a gun boat, becausei hate having to sit still until you have finished shooting. Gardes also have only 23km or so optimal without omnitracking links which limits their useability somewhat. The other thing it is most definately worth doing is getting the 2 5% damage implants (ZGL1000 and CX-2), and you should be getting well over 800dps with ok skills. That is enough to rip through most missions pretty fast, and especially guristas and serps. navy mega will be a bit better, dunno exactly how much better. but gardes are optimal 30km, and 12km falloff, so decentish out to 35, workable to 40, and not much good after that. and of course damage implants are good to have.
Renarla	Posted - 2009.10.18 05:46:00 - [25] Raven>Both However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs.
Dannerkongen Lootex	Posted - 2009.10.18 11:07:00 - [26] just take a look at the new skin the navy mega will have after expansion! who wants a kronos when u can be invisible in a bush?
Tyler Lowe DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2009.10.18 12:58:00 - [27] Edited by: Tyler Lowe on 18/10/2009 13:00:36 You shouldn't need an AB. I think you give up too much for it on that Kronos fit. 2x 425 rail 2x 425 rail 2x salvager II 1x small tractor 2x tracking comp (tracking script) 1x mission specific mod (sensor boost, web, 3rd TC) 1x Heavy Cap booster II 3x Navy Magstabs 3x T2 NPC specific hardeners 1x LAR II 3x NPC specific sentries 5x NPC specific lights 25m^3 w/e 2x Locus Coordinator II If you think missions go fast with 50km optimal, try it with 50km optimal with decent tracking and no need ever to wait on a TC cycle to swap out scripts. You can easily smack targets out to 60km with this setup.


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