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Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2009.10.15 19:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kendon Rid**** on 15/10/2009 19:21:22 could do with an extra launcher slot and plently of grid so link setups are viable.
thanks
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.10.15 19:32:00 -
[2]
Inb4 morons claiming it's fine because it works for their carebearing.
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PhoenixBomb
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Posted - 2009.10.15 19:35:00 -
[3]
There have been many requests for CCP to fix the Nighthawk for pvp, with this particular request being one of the leading choices. Definitely needs to happen.
Go go gadget squeaky wheel!
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.10.15 20:16:00 -
[4]
Its DPS is fine, tbh. Well, it would be if it didn't have to have multiple RCUs for any worthwhile fit...
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.10.15 20:29:00 -
[5]
The posts above have the right idea.
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HANZ BLIX
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Posted - 2009.10.15 21:33:00 -
[6]
Such proposed change would give a NH 862dps to 20km.....no
Field commands are suposed to suck at pvp
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Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.15 21:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: HANZ BLIX Such proposed change would give a NH 862dps to 20km.....no
Agreed, the NH doesn't need another launcher, it needs more PG (like every other Caldari ship). It also needs its black color scheme back.
Quote: Field commands are suposed to suck at pvp
lolwut? ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
A Ingus
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Posted - 2009.10.15 22:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Inb4 morons claiming it's fine because it works for their carebearing.
Riiiight. Well I guess anyone disagreeing with you all is of course a moron, so checking in to ask a simple question-
How would you propose buffing it that won't just make it even more ridiculous for tanking level 5s, if one were to maybe not use extra grid for dps?
You see those other "high" dps command ships, of which i suppose you are talking absolution, can't really tank like that. If you have a suggestion then how to reduce the nighthawk's tank, for a buff in dps, by all means then proceed. If not then you are just asking CCP to create far and away the best command ship, or even just ship, for that matter. I have some suggestions, but you wouldn't like them. Anyway, the day that active armor tanking might receive a buff and can compete with shield tanking then we can talk dps boosts.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.10.15 22:15:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 15/10/2009 22:16:10
Additional PG does not change the NH's carebearing abilities, because the carebear NH has no shortage of PG. The PG problems appear when fitting for PVP with a MWD and gang mod.
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2009.10.15 22:18:00 -
[10]
Is it really _that bad_ to have a high end carebear boat aimed at shooting down smaller targets? In terms of having a niche, it certainly isn't a useless ship. It's just not able to fit the standard mandatory mids for PVP (and maybe that should be what we should look at here).
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maCH'EttE
Celestial Bacon
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Posted - 2009.10.15 22:33:00 -
[11]
As a previously Caldari exclusive PVPer... I really want to like the NH, but it's just hopelessly outclassed. I'd now take a Sleipnir or Astarte over it every time...
Originally by: ISD Devil Hanzo I got pwned!
COME GIT SOME BAYCON! |
Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2009.10.15 22:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: HANZ BLIX Such proposed change would give a NH 862dps to 20km.....no
Field commands are suposed to suck at pvp
this actually doesnt seem like an issue looking at the tengu, and also comparing to the other fighting orientated CS, astarte does more and sleipnir about the same but with better dmg on small targets.
dont see the issue.
its comparing its current form with a drake, thats laughable.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.15 22:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: A Ingus
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Inb4 morons claiming it's fine because it works for their carebearing.
Riiiight. Well I guess anyone disagreeing with you all is of course a moron, so checking in to ask a simple question-
How would you propose buffing it that won't just make it even more ridiculous for tanking level 5s, if one were to maybe not use extra grid for dps?
You see those other "high" dps command ships, of which i suppose you are talking absolution, can't really tank like that. If you have a suggestion then how to reduce the nighthawk's tank, for a buff in dps, by all means then proceed. If not then you are just asking CCP to create far and away the best command ship, or even just ship, for that matter. I have some suggestions, but you wouldn't like them. Anyway, the day that active armor tanking might receive a buff and can compete with shield tanking then we can talk dps boosts.
There are a select few ship classes that should take PvE into consideration when balancing instead of PvP. Command Ships are not among them.
CS should be balanced with PvP in mind first, PvE second. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2009.10.15 22:57:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 15/10/2009 23:00:35
Originally by: Kendon Rid**** could do with an extra launcher slot and plently of grid so link setups are viable.
thanks
While you're at it CCP, do the same for the Damnation. It's impossible for it to bring anything more than a wing of 5 scouts when it's providing link bonuses.
Claymore can bring 40 mbit of drones and about 250+ DPS with turrets, while still putting on a terrific tank and providing link bonuses. And it can zip around like a cruiser while doing it.
-- He said "The President is near."
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.10.15 23:16:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Forge Lag on 15/10/2009 23:18:53 Sure, when the rest of CSs starts to even remotely compare in PvE.
Also, EOS.
We all crosstrain Caldari for PvE (see: CNR, Golem, Tengu, Nighthawk, Drake) so you crosstrain something else from damn full three races if you don't like your pretty fine Nighthawk.
But no, you want your ONE ship to do it ALL and do it BEST. Stupid Caldari.
Edit: What about Vulture, can that one fit links comfortably? So?
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M Blanc
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Posted - 2009.10.16 00:20:00 -
[16]
[Nighthawk, HML - PvP] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
Needs the same 3% grid implant as the cookie cutter HAM drake; 125k EHP with overheated invulns and a mindlink. It could use more grid (implant plus RCU2 is pretty silly), but it works as a pvp boat unless I'm missing something fundamental here. 473 dps with 2200 volley damage at 80 km isn't shabby, especially with the explosion velocity bonus.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.16 00:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: HANZ BLIX Field commands are suposed to suck at pvp
dude.... eh? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Nikea Tiber
Noir. Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.16 01:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: HANZ BLIX Field commands are suposed to suck at pvp
dude.... eh?
Couldn't have said it better myself. ___________________ Eventually, we all get outgunned or outnumbered.
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Xetal Maelstrom
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Posted - 2009.10.16 03:44:00 -
[19]
It is a command ship, so it doesn't need stellar DPS.
What it does need, however, is better fitting... specifically 20-30% more powergrid.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.16 11:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nikea Tiber
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: HANZ BLIX Field commands are suposed to suck at pvp
dude.... eh?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
yeah like I mean, sure the field commands aren't that much above tier2 BC's, but from there to "supposed to suck at pvp" goes a looooooooooong way. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.16 11:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: HANZ BLIX Field commands are suposed to suck at pvp
I think you're confusing field command ships (Nighthawk, Astarte, Sleipnir, Absolution) with FLEET command ships (Vulture, Eos, Claymore, Damnation)...
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Ralavina
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Posted - 2009.10.16 12:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kendon Rid**** your
Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p |
HANZ BLIX
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Posted - 2009.10.16 12:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Nikea Tiber
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: HANZ BLIX Field commands are suposed to suck at pvp
dude.... eh?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
yeah like I mean, sure the field commands aren't that much above tier2 BC's, but from there to "supposed to suck at pvp" goes a looooooooooong way.
Originally by: Akita T
I think you're confusing field command ships (Nighthawk, Astarte, Sleipnir, Absolution) with FLEET command ships (Vulture, Eos, Claymore, Damnation)...
OK thier not supposed to suck at pvp, they just happen to do so, reffering to the puzzled NH pilot that knows nuthing of the other 3 field commands and wonders why the NH isn't up to his expectations for pvp use.
Of the Field Commands, let's hand out some medals.
Absolution Solo Fleet
Astarte Solo
Nighthawk Fleet PvE
Sliepnir Solo
Nighthawk is good enuf, just not good in the ways some want, reduce CPU boost PG would switch this ship to a HAM ship, inreasing PvP options while nerfing its PvE performance.
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BillyBong2
Amarr Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.10.16 12:47:00 -
[24]
Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Sensor Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.10.16 12:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Forge Lag We all crosstrain Caldari for PvE
I think you meant "we all crosstrain <something besides for Minmatar> for PvE" since they're the only race that doesn't have at least one amazing PvE ship. The Domi is arguably the most versatile ship in the game, easily comparable to a CNR and much better at low level missions (even compared to BC class ships) on top of it; and it's common knowledge that plowing through Amarr missions or ratting Sansha's/Bloods with a paladin/nightmare is some of the best ISK you can hope to make in PvE.
I know very few experienced players who even fly Caldari in PvE, unless it's the race they primarily fly in the first place. There's no need to, and your assertion that "we all" do is absolutely incorrect. Stupid Caldari. (to quote yourself)
Personally, I'll fly a NH when I can fit an AB to it. Until then it's worthless to me even in PvE. Hahaha, it doesn't even have enough grid for an afterburner, nevermind an MWD.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.10.16 12:54:00 -
[26]
Most PVErs closs train to Caldari, the main exception would be Amarr who are alwesome at PVP and PVE.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.10.16 13:02:00 -
[27]
Hey guys, look at my awesome active Nighthawk! Boy, am I glad I trained for T2 RCUs...
[Nighthawk, Active-HM GM] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Large Shield Booster II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
352 missile DPS and a 466 DPS tank! Good job it doesn't have the PG to avoid needing three RCUs, it would be horrificaly overpowered, eh?
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.16 13:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: HANZ BLIX OK thier not supposed to suck at pvp, they just happen to do so
actually, a bit wrong there.
it's not that they suck at pvp. they do well there.
the problem is, you get nearly the same bang for the buck in a hull that is like 4 to 5 times cheaper (tier2 BC's) ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Fuazzole
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Posted - 2009.10.16 13:08:00 -
[29]
In a fleet, If I was to bring a Field command ship which I wouldn't cause whats the point in bringing somthing twice the price of a BS but lower DPS. I would...
Absolution Most fleets are RR-Armor tanked giving good survivablity, using either beam or scorch pulse puts out 400-600dps (up to 770dps on MF if ur mad enuf to go that close.
Nighthawk Shield fleets are rare, but do happen. Like the Absolution has good prospects in RR fleet due to +resist bonus and further increase's survivablity from increased range. Using standard fit or seige link puts out 590-680dps
Sliepnir Not a fleet ship, but place's 3rd infront of Astarte because it's a cheeper loss-mail.
Astarte Free kill mail.
I don't think Nighthawk sucks, I just think Field commands in general suck.
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Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2009.10.16 13:42:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Fuazzole
I don't think Nighthawk sucks, I just think Field commands in general suck.
But the other CS compare with their t1 hulls far more favorably. The NH does not, in fact i would guess that a drake setup to fit a link and pvp fittings, would end up with very similar results fo what a 200m premium?
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