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Daemen Rhandir
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Posted - 2009.10.14 05:40:00 -
[1]
An idea that I had pop into my head a few days ago. I've been refining it since then.
A tier training system: (Tier: a row or level of a structure, typically one of a series of rows placed one above the other and successively receding or diminishing in size)
So, the current training Queue is already the largest Tier, Tier 1.
My proposal is to implement a second and possibly third tier. (Three is probably overdoing it, and wouldn't serve much of a purpose due to the slow speed I have included.)
A two tier example would be this:
Tier 1 training at normal speeds - Normal 24 hour training queue. (Original)
Tier 2 training at one third/quarter speed (takes three or four times longer to train) - 6 hour training queue.
As you can see, the second tier is much smaller, one forth the size and one third/forth speed overall. This would allow players the choices of;
A: Work a long skill in the first tier at normal speed, while also side-studying a 'shorter' skill, taking three to four times the normal speed.
B: Work faster skills in the first tier while chipping away at a longer skill in the second tier.
C: Work on their main specialization. (Mining for example.) Yet also work on a alternate skill set, (Industrial or fighting.)
I've thought of including an isk price/needed skill-set to unlock the second tier, or you 'rent' the second tier for some price. I am not too sure about implementing that part of the idea though.
In summary, the purpose of the Tier system is to give players the opportunity to either diversify or specialize easier. It would also serve to make players log in more during the 'long-haul' of one month or even multiple month skills, during which players may leave the game until the training is done, or quit entirely because they feel they are getting nowhere.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
REIGN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 06:14:00 -
[2]
While the idea has merit... I can't support it.
The training queue makes EVE the most unique game around.
By allowing players to train more than one skill on a single character would cause alot of issues for those of us who are training right now.
The only way this would work and I stress IF on this one.... is if the training time would be penalized for the first tier for use of the second tier.
In reallity you are abusing a system that was designed for one skill a at a time.
People would achieve skills much more quickly... not good.
The only thing I find rational in this case is the ability to queue up skills (or share rather) between alts.
Not sure if its currently doing this but I've heard its a rather likable idea.
Your likely to get trolled... so I'll throw in the obligatory "IBFGB2WOW" rant response and take my leave.
o7
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CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
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Daemen Rhandir
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Posted - 2009.10.14 06:49:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Daemen Rhandir on 14/10/2009 06:52:22
Originally by: Drake Draconis
1. By allowing players to train more than one skill on a single character would cause alot of issues for those of us who are training right now.
2. The only way this would work and I stress IF on this one.... is if the training time would be penalized for the first tier for use of the second tier.
3. People would achieve skills much more quickly... not good.
4. The only thing I find rational in this case is the ability to queue up skills (or share rather) between alts.
5.Your likely to get trolled... so I'll throw in the obligatory "IBFGB2WOW" rant response and take my leave.
1. I believe you mean players that just join? As I said, I've thought about requiring a skill-set or isk price for running the second tier, it would NOT be cheap or easy to get. Other than newer players matching up older players, (which it would not be cheap or easy for them to do.) I don't see any other problems. Mind elaborating on any that I seem to be missing?
2. The first tier would stay the same. The second tier takes three to four times as long to train skills. Maybe you were confused on that point, the second tier is not faster, it is much, much slower to use than the first. Maybe it should be increased to five or six times if it seems four is not slow enough...
3. Refer to response 2, it would take a lot longer, a normal one hour skill would take four hours, and only leave room for one more skill. Remember that I propose a 6 hour limit queue for the second tier, instead of a 24 hour one, severely limiting how much you could put in.
4. This system does not share skills between alts, it limits it to one character, and would have the same limitation of one character learning at a time.
5. "IBFGB2WOW" IBF - no idea, GB2WOW I would imagine means 'go back to world of warcraft.' I used to, it's too easy. 
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:27:00 -
[4]
Surely having two skills training at the same time, both at half speed would be much simpler to implement without the balance implications... if anything along those lines is needed at all.
On another note, how do you like your pods in the morning? |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:46:00 -
[5]
So basically, you want to increase training speed by 25-33%, and make the system more complicated at the same time. Sorry, I can't support this.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.14 18:11:00 -
[6]
I like the idea. It's interesting.
However likable or even "good" ideas shouldn't always be implemented.
If I understand you correctly and the second tier would, essentially/in the long run, be training skills at the same speed or less than you can train them in the first tier (today's method)...
Then I would say why? For example, some have suggested before to be able to have two skills train at the same time, both at half speed. Why? Train one, and then the other.
With the skill Q that we have today, this is completely unnecessary. Do you have a long skill going but want to feel like you're making progress? Once or twice a week switch to a shorter skill. If you have skills you'd like to progress that take less than a day, you can even add those on to the beginning of the Q and your long skill will pick up afterwards.
So, solution in search of a problem, I guess.
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Daemen Rhandir
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Posted - 2009.10.15 04:28:00 -
[7]
Ok, maybe a little cleaning up of what it is designed to do.
The main purpose of the second tier is to reduce the 'deadlock' feeling effect on a player. Deadlock meaning training a long skill, a couple weeks or even a few months, and not being able to do anything else except wait for that skill to finish and move on with their EVE experience. This was the same thing that made me leave eve for a while, but I've continued since in my two years since starting EVE.
Yes, it would increase overall training speed. Four times slower, but in a separate queue, would be a 25% increase, which is probably too much.
As I said, still refining it, and here I believed was a good place to do it.
Maybe have it so the second tier can only hold one skill at a time, like it was normally before the queue was introduced. That would reduce the time a player could be training a skill, effectively cutting that 25% increase in time by half or more at four times as long.
Also, for restrictions on how soon a player could use it. Would 5/5 learning skill be required? Or a one month timer, or maybe after their double-time speed training of 1.6 mill SP is over.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.10.15 07:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Daemen Rhandir
Ok, maybe a little cleaning up of what it is designed to do.
The main purpose of the second tier is to reduce the 'deadlock' feeling effect on a player. Deadlock meaning training a long skill, a couple weeks or even a few months, and not being able to do anything else except wait for that skill to finish and move on with their EVE experience. This was the same thing that made me leave eve for a while, but I've continued since in my two years since starting EVE.
Yes, it would increase overall training speed. Four times slower, but in a separate queue, would be a 25% increase, which is probably too much.
As I said, still refining it, and here I believed was a good place to do it.
Maybe have it so the second tier can only hold one skill at a time, like it was normally before the queue was introduced. That would reduce the time a player could be training a skill, effectively cutting that 25% increase in time by half or more at four times as long.
Also, for restrictions on how soon a player could use it. Would 5/5 learning skill be required? Or a one month timer, or maybe after their double-time speed training of 1.6 mill SP is over.
I get deadlock, and I know why it's annoying. I'm doing a 17 day skill right now, and it's hardly the longest I've trained. But I don't play this game to rack up new skills, even if it is nice. I play it because it's a good game. Just because it takes longer to hit the "next level" doesn't mean I'm deadlocked at all. I'm just training a long skill. If I need something, be it a skill I forgot or just the satisfying feeling of a new skill or two, I can pause, switch, and resume, with no loss.
This isn't necessary. You're just juggling the same thing, presenting it differently, and calling the problem solved. You see "no deadlock", I see 20% of my SP gain being spent on my second-best skill to train, not my best. This won't fix anything except your own perceptions, and dealing with those doesn't require a change in game mechanics. Sorry man, but no support.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.15 08:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
So basically, you want to increase training speed by 25-33%, and make the system more complicated at the same time. Sorry, I can't support this.
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Aren Valle
Caldari
Lonetrek Mineral Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.16 18:11:00 -
[10]
I can't see ever supporting this for your primary character, but it just might work for alternate characters on the same account. Only being able to train one character at a time basically makes the other two character slots useless for any practical game play. If a system such as this were implemented for the second two slots, it would be a nice benefit to the players without upsetting the overall balance of the game.
Primary - normal skill time
Secondary - 4x skill time
Tertiary - 10x skill time
Just a thought.
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