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Skrunkle
Gallente Dark Syde Exploration
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Posted - 2009.10.07 07:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Skrunkle on 07/10/2009 07:42:18 Wspace is a large and daunting place. But as a director in a medium sized W-space corporation, we have dropped POSes in several W space systems. we have recently noticed that the distance information between POSes still shows up in the POS management window.
This lead to another idea. we will be forming a wormhole space mapping corporation, and hosting a series of W space mapping events. We will be accepting applications into the corp from anyone wanting to participate in the mapping process. those people will be given roles for anchoring POSes and will enter W space to anchor a tower and record the distance to several other towers in W space including our Origin(tm) tower wich will stay hung and fueled for the duration of all the required mapping events. We can literally map out the physical layout of the W space systems!
people are encouraged to put together a package consisting of the following items:
1 POS (small is best) 2 Fuel for said POS for a few days (LOZ and HW shouldn't be needed if you are not hanging any equipment on it. 3 Ships to move this equipment around. (we recommend an orca)
Participants can hang their towers in several systems over the course of a day. with only a couple of hundred participants we should be able to map 90% of the universe over the course of a few weeks.
All recorded data will be released in a database that will be released to the public after the initial numbers are crunched.
No rewards will be offered to participants other than the warm fuzzy feeling that you get from working on a large complex project. Nor will there be any compensation for any equipment and ships lost serving this event.
Post here if you are interested in mapping W space. Subvert the dominant paradigm. |
Cadde
Gallente FireworX
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:03:00 -
[2]
Too late, each Wormhole systems location (X/Y/Z coordinate) is already known from extracting the data out of the client. That also includes all the Wormhole names (like K162 which is an exit) and their respective target space type. Such as W-Space Class 1 through 6 and High/low/null sec space.
It is also possible to enter the W-space system name into a database search to find out what kind of class that system is. Basically, all there is to know about W-space is already known except for the (to the very last digit) exact types of sites you might encounter and what the average loot/salvage can be retrieved from the sleepers and structures etc.
There are probably countless sites providing this information and all you need to do is google it to find them. OFC, this is very sad indeed. It takes away all the glory of exploration and the unknown aspect of wormholes but that's just the way it is and i feel it's better for me to tell you this instead of you spending hours on end to jot down all these distances and putting up towers all over W-Space to do make it work. Only to later realize you did all of this in vein.
That ... or you are just running some recruitment scam...
Either way, this doesn't belong in general discussion. There's a separate sub-forum for recruitment related posts. This one belongs there.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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BIZZAROSTORMY
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:06:00 -
[3]
well if you find a website with all this information be sure and let the rest of us know.
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kongking wang
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:07:00 -
[4]
i dont think people are going to take kindly to people setting up a pos in their wormhole system. i would thing your mapping fleet stand to get there asses kicked alot
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:11:00 -
[5]
I suggested this before the expansion but apparently there was a sisi db dump that contained all the wormhole system coordinates, rendering the idea pointless. Entity used it to produce a map, though there's information not presented on that map.
Some useful information isn't publicly available at the moment, such as what class of static wormhole a system has. However, we've seen systems which generate outgoings that aren't static, which is interesting. Our current home generates C3 static outgoings (I forget the type) and every now and then it produces an additional 0.0 outgoing. We even think it has produced a highsec out once or twice, but we haven't analysed the frequency of these extra wormholes appearing.
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Cadde
Gallente FireworX
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: BIZZAROSTORMY well if you find a website with all this information be sure and let the rest of us know.
GOOGLE is your friend dammit!
Anyways...
Image of both known space and W-Space as made even BEFORE Apocrypha hit TQ! http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/windryder/whtcmap.png
The database i use to look up wormholes and systems... http://igb.bluesuntrust.com/wormhole.cfm
There are most likely more information to be had on what sleepers you encounter and what their drops are but for that you really should...
ASK GOOGLE
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Asterlicks
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cadde Too late, each Wormhole systems location (X/Y/Z coordinate) is already known from extracting the data out of the client. That also includes all the Wormhole names (like K162 which is an exit) and their respective target space type. Such as W-Space Class 1 through 6 and High/low/null sec space.
It is also possible to enter the W-space system name into a database search to find out what kind of class that system is. Basically, all there is to know about W-space is already known except for the (to the very last digit) exact types of sites you might encounter and what the average loot/salvage can be retrieved from the sleepers and structures etc.
There are probably countless sites providing this information and all you need to do is google it to find them. OFC, this is very sad indeed. It takes away all the glory of exploration and the unknown aspect of wormholes but that's just the way it is and i feel it's better for me to tell you this instead of you spending hours on end to jot down all these distances and putting up towers all over W-Space to do make it work. Only to later realize you did all of this in vein.
That ... or you are just running some recruitment scam...
Either way, this doesn't belong in general discussion. There's a separate sub-forum for recruitment related posts. This one belongs there.
Show me a link to the data in question and i will stop this immediatly. else, this goes on. I have googled for this information already and have not come up with it yet.
And no this is not for recruitment forums as this is not a recruitment issue. I expect people joining this corp only stay in for two days at most. (the second day is for stripping roles). and yes I expect ships and equipment to be lost in the process. but overall this is a cheap way to map W space.
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Cadde
Gallente FireworX
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Asterlicks
Originally by: Cadde Too late, each Wormhole systems location (X/Y/Z coordinate) is already known from extracting the data out of the client. That also includes all the Wormhole names (like K162 which is an exit) and their respective target space type. Such as W-Space Class 1 through 6 and High/low/null sec space.
It is also possible to enter the W-space system name into a database search to find out what kind of class that system is. Basically, all there is to know about W-space is already known except for the (to the very last digit) exact types of sites you might encounter and what the average loot/salvage can be retrieved from the sleepers and structures etc.
There are probably countless sites providing this information and all you need to do is google it to find them. OFC, this is very sad indeed. It takes away all the glory of exploration and the unknown aspect of wormholes but that's just the way it is and i feel it's better for me to tell you this instead of you spending hours on end to jot down all these distances and putting up towers all over W-Space to do make it work. Only to later realize you did all of this in vein.
That ... or you are just running some recruitment scam...
Either way, this doesn't belong in general discussion. There's a separate sub-forum for recruitment related posts. This one belongs there.
Show me a link to the data in question and i will stop this immediatly. else, this goes on. I have googled for this information already and have not come up with it yet.
And no this is not for recruitment forums as this is not a recruitment issue. I expect people joining this corp only stay in for two days at most. (the second day is for stripping roles). and yes I expect ships and equipment to be lost in the process. but overall this is a cheap way to map W space.
You are simply not asking the right questions! (to google that is)
Here, i am being nice today:
http://zofu.no-ip.de/wspace.html
There are links on that page that hosts the entire Apocrypha DB dump !!! INCLUDING !!! the wormhole systems that exist in the expansion. But you really need to know SQL to make good use of it...
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Janice Jankowski
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:56:00 -
[9]
I thought all data was gained from before CCP withdrew the data dump, not from the client
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.10.07 09:49:00 -
[10]
"distance to origin tower" ?
i thought within wh space everything "next jump" is 214247.... some high integer nummer ? so you cant map distances :P
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.10.07 09:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Some Advisor "distance to origin tower" ?
i thought within wh space everything "next jump" is 214247.... some high integer nummer ? so you cant map distances :P
He means distance in lightyears, which you can get from POS. If you get its distance from 4 known points, you can quadlaterate the exact coordinates of the w-space system on the eve map. But those coordinates are already available so it's unfortunately pointless.
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.10.07 10:01:00 -
[12]
yes, pointless it is. i know.
but just was wondering for a second there :)
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Troye
Gallente Intelligent Concepts Inc SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2009.10.07 10:19:00 -
[13]
If anything this is an example of how CCP have rendered the very concept of exploration useless by allowing the infomation to be freely obtained via the data dump.
They should give all the wormholes a reshuffle and encode the data, and have a wormholes system name randomly generate every 24 hours, bring back the "unknown" to wormholes. _______________________________________ [a cool picture here] |
Skrunkle
Gallente Dark Syde Exploration
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Posted - 2009.10.07 18:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cadde
You are simply not asking the right questions! (to google that is)
Here, i am being nice today:
http://zofu.no-ip.de/wspace.html
There are links on that page that hosts the entire Apocrypha DB dump !!! INCLUDING !!! the wormhole systems that exist in the expansion. But you really need to know SQL to make good use of it...
Very much thanks for that link cadde! I am a little dissapointed that this project is not necessary however, It might have been tremendous fun. Subvert the dominant paradigm. |
Ruziel
Minmatar Twilight Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2009.10.07 19:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Janice Jankowski I thought all data was gained from before CCP withdrew the data dump, not from the client
Some of the wormhole data was taken from a pre-release DB, but the x/y/z coordinates of the w-space systems is still included in the official data dump.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.07 19:41:00 -
[16]
wait.
Can you jump from system to system then? I mean, if the distances are there.. can you cyno to a wh system from another wh system? Of specific note; jumpbriges (well, covert ones).. can they be used in such a manner? Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. LAnce is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points |
N'tek alar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Skrunkle
Originally by: Cadde
You are simply not asking the right questions! (to google that is)
Here, i am being nice today:
http://zofu.no-ip.de/wspace.html
There are links on that page that hosts the entire Apocrypha DB dump !!! INCLUDING !!! the wormhole systems that exist in the expansion. But you really need to know SQL to make good use of it...
Very much thanks for that link cadde! I am a little dissapointed that this project is not necessary however, It might have been tremendous fun.
hmm, ridiculous amounts of probing, hauling, pos anchoring, pos unanchoring and then calculating positions, yeah... sure sounds fun ------------------------- I'm not shirtless damnit! |
knifee
Caldari Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:39:00 -
[18]
try this: http://evemap.battleclinic.com/. It has all the w-space systems mapped out and searchable.
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Cadde
Gallente FireworX
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Troye If anything this is an example of how CCP have rendered the very concept of exploration useless by allowing the infomation to be freely obtained via the data dump.
They should give all the wormholes a reshuffle and encode the data, and have a wormholes system name randomly generate every 24 hours, bring back the "unknown" to wormholes.
They didn't INTENTIONALLY release the data to the playerbase. It just happened to be that it was easily obtainable through the SISI client. (That's what i heard anyways) There are also rumors that the #eve-dev channel on IRC had a bot that CCP used to quickly assess what type of gate and systems there where. By simply typing "!wh Axxx" and "!system Jxxxxxx" they would get a reply with the details of that system or wormhole.
Either way, the only thing CCP did wrong was make the information available in the client and on that IRC bot (publicly) and even if they had encrypted the information in the client it would be a fairly simple task to decrypt it by someone who can acquire the key. The key has to be known by the client to read the data, hence the key can be obtained from the client or the server when you use the system.
The only viable solution would be to have the cluster send you the information on a need to know basis. That is when you see the wormhole you get the details in the "show info" window and when you attempt to jump through you get a success/failure reply. Once inside the w-space you get all you need to know about that particular space, that is the anomaly effect on your ship and it's name. No need to know what class it is! But the problem is that CCP want to minimize traffic between client and server. Hence they chose to have the data client side...
Quote:
Very much thanks for that link cadde! I am a little dissapointed that this project is not necessary however, It might have been tremendous fun. Subvert the dominant paradigm.
I agree that it would have been a fun thing to do IF the information wasn't already made available to the public. I don't know if CCP intended to release the information or not but i do think that if someone hadn't already extracted all the data as soon as it hit the SISI client they would have chosen not to. Now that it is available they decided, in the spirit of fairness, to release the information so as to keep the balance.
And i am sorry that I burst your enthusiasm but i stand by my previous statement. It's better to know beforehand that the information is available rather than do a lot of tedious work and later find out that the data has been there all along. Some of those who would help you out and didn't know beforehand could easily put the blame onto you for not doing your research and that could damage your avatars image. *important stuff!* But it's also a spy/thief magnet, giving people rights they shouldn't have could open you up for attack. All it takes is one small mistake and they are running off with one of your towers.
---
I just wanna say one more thing that lies close to my heart when it comes to eve. And that is, eve is at the moment based on very static content, there isn't much diversity in what you can find. I would rather have it so when one find something it is generated on the fly and has a lifespan. So lets say you find a gravimetric site... As it is now, you find a site that has been pre-modeled and hold resources that are in relation to the security class of the space you found it in. I would rather have it so the resources that are seeded in that signature is randomly positioned and generated based on that same security class.
Same with W-space, you find a wormhole, it will generate a new solar system and it's resources based on where that wormhole came from. Once you leave the system a countdown timer starts that will clean everything up related to that system in X number of days. (First the wormholes that lead there collapse and no new are generated.)
All the stuff inside is gone
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Cadde
Gallente FireworX
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lance Fighter wait.
Can you jump from system to system then? I mean, if the distances are there.. can you cyno to a wh system from another wh system? Of specific note; jumpbriges (well, covert ones).. can they be used in such a manner?
In w-space....
* Cyno's cannot be created. * Jump bridges are rendered inoperable. (Maybe they can't even be anchored) * Jump portal generators and jump drives are inoperable.
You cannot jump from one system to another in w-space by any other means than through a wormhole. If you happen to find another way of traveling between them, you should make a bug report and a petiton about a possible exploit relating to that mechanic.
In short: CCP have clearly stated that only means of travel in W-space will be through wormholes!
However, some wormholes will allow capitals through! It's a gamble though. You'll never know when a new wormhole will spawn that will let you travel back to known space.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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