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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.29 19:18:00 -
[61]
Edited by: The Djego on 29/09/2009 19:25:59
Originally by: Manu Hermanus
Originally by: xXxChristianGirlxXX
Originally by: Chack'Nul
Originally by: xXxChristianGirlxXX Scorch on Megapulse II is 45km.
Damn that just makes me mad.
Yeah, Scorch is horribly overpowered (3x the optimal of AN Multifrequency). If null did the same, Neutron Blaster Cannon II optimal would be 27km. Which of course, would be completely game breaking.
or like 13.5km?
although tbh 27km null would hardly be over powered compaired to 45km scorch
Range never was a issue, it is a intendet drawback. The problem is located in the performance at this range(namely ability to lay down full damage vs intendet targets) and outperforming other weapon systems at a margin that favours the blaster ship and disadvantages the target to a amount where the blaster ship wins.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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bloodlust priest
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Posted - 2009.09.29 19:47:00 -
[62]
"dear ccp pls make my close range guns less close range, although i fully understood that having the closest range guns would mean i wouldnt have the same range as if i had choosen lasors i figured id wait 6 years and start complaining about it now. i think my blasters should track better than autocannons and outdamage lasors till 30 km (as i know they already outdamage them till about 22km)
i think its unfair that a race that focuses primarily on small gang ships should have to adapt to be usefull in large gang situations and reley more on the drone carriers of the race which were obviously intended to be the gang ships. i think this is rediculous as my megathron should be able to do everything just like scorch ammo can destroy planets and kill close orbiting ceptors without breaking a swet.
plsplspls ccp make everything the same ccp plese BALANCE REMEBER!
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.29 19:50:00 -
[63]
Originally by: kessah
Megathrons are very different to Geddons and torp Ravens. You would use them for different reasons. Considering they will 9 times out of 10 use an MWD, which in its own right makes them advantageous in other aspects.
... Does this mean that you don't use an MWD in Geddon or torp Raven? Enh... -- Gradient forum |
Isabelle Sparks
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Posted - 2009.09.29 19:57:00 -
[64]
Originally by: bloodlust priest "dear ccp pls make my close range guns less close range, although i fully understood that having the closest range guns would mean i wouldnt have the same range as if i had choosen lasors i figured id wait 6 years and start complaining about it now. i think my blasters should track better than autocannons and outdamage lasors till 30 km (as i know they already outdamage them till about 22km)
Dear CCP please make my close range guns own all other guns in their intended range as much as the other guns own me in theirs.
How about that? So Blasters do ~0 at 45km, make sure that pulses do 0 damage at 10km. Deal?
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:17:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Isabelle Sparks Edited by: Isabelle Sparks on 29/09/2009 20:10:31
Originally by: bloodlust priest "dear ccp pls make my close range guns less close range, although i fully understood that having the closest range guns would mean i wouldnt have the same range as if i had choosen lasors i figured id wait 6 years and start complaining about it now. i think my blasters should track better than autocannons and outdamage lasors till 30 km (as i know they already outdamage them till about 22km)
Dear CCP please make my close range guns own all other guns in their intended range as much as the other guns own me in theirs.
How about that? So Blasters do ~0 damage at 45km, make sure that pulses do 0 damage at 10km. Deal?
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Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:22:00 -
[66]
Originally by: wallenbergaren I keep hearing we're the worst race blah blah
Why so? Is it all because of the fact hybrids have issues? Because a lot of the ships are quite nice imo
We get the best ceptor, very strong selection of BSes, very good carrier, great HAC, etc. The blasterboats suffer a bit from blasters being $!@ºú¬@ed but a Brutix or a Thorax can be really awesome when they get into the right position. There's no real sniper BS but who says every race should do everything? We get the most awesome solo PvP BS instead (hype).
Gallente are by no means worse than Minmatar and Caldari have some issues too
So why the hate?
Because people are stupid. The only thing gallente could use (wouldn't call it a need, though it would be nice compensation for the past few nerfs) is a slight tracking boost or very small optimal buff.
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TrollmoreX
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:26:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Isabelle Sparks Edited by: Isabelle Sparks on 29/09/2009 20:10:31
Originally by: bloodlust priest "dear ccp pls make my close range guns less close range, although i fully understood that having the closest range guns would mean i wouldnt have the same range as if i had choosen lasors i figured id wait 6 years and start complaining about it now. i think my blasters should track better than autocannons and outdamage lasors till 30 km (as i know they already outdamage them till about 22km)
Dear CCP please make my close range guns own all other guns in their intended range as much as the other guns own me in theirs.
How about that? So Blasters do ~0 damage at 45km, make sure that pulses do 0 damage at 10km. Deal?
Dis.
And in b4 my trolling brosef. Or did he already checked in?
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:27:00 -
[68]
Originally by: TrollmoreX
And in b4 my trolling brosef. Or did he already checked in?
You are one and a halve page to late. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Isabelle Sparks
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:34:00 -
[69]
Originally by: TrollmoreX
Originally by: Isabelle Sparks Edited by: Isabelle Sparks on 29/09/2009 20:10:31
Originally by: bloodlust priest "dear ccp pls make my close range guns less close range, although i fully understood that having the closest range guns would mean i wouldnt have the same range as if i had choosen lasors i figured id wait 6 years and start complaining about it now. i think my blasters should track better than autocannons and outdamage lasors till 30 km (as i know they already outdamage them till about 22km)
Dear CCP please make my close range guns own all other guns in their intended range as much as the other guns own me in theirs.
How about that? So Blasters do ~0 damage at 45km, make sure that pulses do 0 damage at 10km. Deal?
Dis.
And just for comparison. Blasters do 50% more damage compared to autocannons do at close range and Auto-cannons do 1/2 their damage at theirs. So it would appear that is pretty well balanced. Although I think the window is a little bit small for minmatar when comparing Nuetrons with 800's. But pretty good actually.
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Richest Mofo
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:34:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Tzepesh Edited by: Tzepesh on 29/09/2009 14:25:23
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: kessah Megathron
Get an Armageddon or torp Raven.
This is the most stupid thing I've ever read on this forum. I dont know what kind of noob are you but your argues are crap and only thing I can recomand you is to shoot yourself.
Megathron is actually the best fleet sniper. And for solo close combat, I beat both ships with megathron Armageddon and Raven.
Large Blasters are fine just becose in optimal your target is already scramed and webed. There is no tier 2 BS who can beat mega in solo combat. Period.
I agree with the fact that some ships are a litlebit underpowored like arazu, myrmidon, hyperion (maybe, I prefere Abaddon anyeway), But gallente have so many ships that kick ass!!! Ishtar, Dominix, Megathron, Ishkur, Taranis, Ares, Oneiros, Thanatos (yeah) and Moros even with the drone nerf.
The megathron only rocks when its able to dictate range. Which usually only happens solo, during 1v1 where both warp to 0 of each other. I could beat your mega in my harbinger.
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:47:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz Gallente is great, try Faildari...
Rely on Missles and there ROFL flight time delay Rely on those Shield Tanking RR groups... oh wait, there aren't any And look at their massive Drone bays... yeah, none of those either.
But you have FALCON.
Still searching for that wtfpwnbbqsauce Falcon setup that can kill everything that moves... havn't seen one with more than about 100 damage on a killmail
Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Lucia Wilber
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:58:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Chack'Nul
Originally by: xXxChristianGirlxXX Scorch on Megapulse II is 45km.
Damn that just makes me mad.
Yeah, but don't forget:
Pulse lasers drain more than twice the cap of blasters, they track slower, they have lower damage per second, and Gallente battleships are faster than Amarr battleships, which allows them to close range.
Now, I can't speak for how good blasters are since I've never used them, but I can say that, having used lasers as much as I have, having a high optimal range doesn't mean squat when you can't hit what you're shooting at because your turret tracking sucks. And you think Scorch is bad? Try Conflag, apparently made for people that want to occasionally hit the broad side of a planet.
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FOl2TY8
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.09.29 21:37:00 -
[73]
I personally think Gallente are fun to fly and I used to f*ck a chick that didn't shave her armpits or legs.
This is all my own opinion
Taranis - fun ship and one of the easiest ships to pick targets with. Garmon's dual propulsion fit makes it almost unkillable if piloted right.
Ishkur - ultimate frig sized frig killer
Vexor - excellent cruiser sized frig killer
Thorax - fun ship to fly but you gotta be in range (screw you rupture pilots)
Brutix - great ship to field when you get the call "need more DPS!!!!" again range is a biyatch on this though
Myrm - pretty versatile but doesn't stand up to the other tier 2 BC that I've fought
Domi - really versatile and with great drone skills kicks a whole lotta ass
Mega - get into range fast and it puts out much needed DPS, decent fleet sniper but not great
I don't fly T2 Gallente cruisers so can't comment on those. I'm sure Merin is generally correct when you have the option to fly multiple races. I don't so I can only comment on what I have flown. I do know that I would rather fly a Cane than a Myrm and I would rather have an Apoc over a Mega. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.29 21:49:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Lucia Wilber
Now, I can't speak for how good blasters are since I've never used them, but I can say that, having used lasers as much as I have, having a high optimal range doesn't mean squat when you can't hit what you're shooting at because your turret tracking sucks. And you think Scorch is bad? Try Conflag, apparently made for people that want to occasionally hit the broad side of a planet.
Think you're overemphasising the bad tracking on pulses quite a bit. Most importantly, it's not really a problem at all if you're thinking bigger gangs than just few ships each side. I can live with that though, it's inevitable that some weapons are more suitable to certain types of engagements than others as long as there's going to be any flavor between them.
The real problem, however, lies in the scenarios where the bad tracking of pulses should really show, like, for example shooting fast targets at close range. Because the tracking really isn't that bad. If you compare blaster tracking vs pulse tracking against a fast target, you'll notice that while the blasters do track slightly better, the difference is marginal (although damage types and dps slightly skew this more into blaster favor), and obviously pulse hit chance keeps improving past blaster optimal. For example, shooting a vaga with blasters or heavy pulses, heavy pulses at their optimal will have double the hitchance of the blasters at theirs. In reality, though, once webs, scrams and maneuvering are added to the mix, the tracking deficit isn't going to be significant at all when shooting at targets of similar size.
If lasers really had bad tracking, they'd track worse at 15km than blasters do at 5km.
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Gary Goat
Yakuza Corp THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2009.09.29 22:08:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Lucia Wilber
Originally by: Chack'Nul
Originally by: xXxChristianGirlxXX Scorch on Megapulse II is 45km.
Damn that just makes me mad.
Yeah, but don't forget:
Pulse lasers drain more than twice the cap of blasters, they track slower, they have lower damage per second, and Gallente battleships are faster than Amarr battleships, which allows them to close range.
Now, I can't speak for how good blasters are since I've never used them, but I can say that, having used lasers as much as I have, having a high optimal range doesn't mean squat when you can't hit what you're shooting at because your turret tracking sucks. And you think Scorch is bad? Try Conflag, apparently made for people that want to occasionally hit the broad side of a planet.
I understand where you're coming from but you really need to use both weapons systems before you can make comments on the advantages/disadvantages. In a BS gang for example an Armageddon or Abaddon can pretty much sit still and shoot at the primary targets where as the Megathron pilot will have to MWD into range of every target that is called. A Megathron will generally burn through more cap boosters then the Geddon/Abaddon will.
Yes pulse lasers track more slowly but they have greater optimal. Pulse lasers actually track better at their optimal range then blasters do at their optimal.
I have pretty even skills with amarr and gallente and i use both regularly. I still love my blasters but i'd take an amarr battleship to a BS gang over the Mega every time. I'd like to see the range of scortch reduced as many have said. Its range combined with the instant crystal switch is so much of an advantage its not even funny. That alone outweighs any disadvantage lasers might have.
IMO blasters need a damage boost. Over the years their damage has stayed the same dispite the HP buff, rigs being introduced that are much more effective at boosting tanking then damage, boosters that do the same and more recently the web nerf. Additionally i'd give the thorax and deimos a web strength bonus instead of the MWD bonus.
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ropnes
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Posted - 2009.09.29 22:20:00 -
[76]
Small blasters don't need a damage boost, they need an optimal boost Neutrons are almost the only small blasters worth fitting. You move +- 1km VERY fast in a frig and when 1km is the difference between 100% and 40% dmg you're not having an easy time
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.09.29 22:33:00 -
[77]
Originally by: ropnes Small blasters don't need a damage boost, they need an optimal boost Neutrons are almost the only small blasters worth fitting. You move +- 1km VERY fast in a frig and when 1km is the difference between 100% and 40% dmg you're not having an easy time
You could, y'know, fit something other than the -50% range ammo. Or perhaps try using autocannons some day, which you'll find actually have even less optimal. AND less tracking too.
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ropnes
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Posted - 2009.09.29 23:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: James Lyrus stuff
No.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.09.29 23:18:00 -
[79]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: ropnes Small blasters don't need a damage boost, they need an optimal boost Neutrons are almost the only small blasters worth fitting. You move +- 1km VERY fast in a frig and when 1km is the difference between 100% and 40% dmg you're not having an easy time
You could, y'know, fit something other than the -50% range ammo. Or perhaps try using autocannons some day, which you'll find actually have even less optimal. AND less tracking too.
You do realise blasters need antimatter to keep their spot as (in theory) top dps weapon? Without that there's no point at all using them.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.29 23:22:00 -
[80]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: ropnes Small blasters don't need a damage boost, they need an optimal boost Neutrons are almost the only small blasters worth fitting. You move +- 1km VERY fast in a frig and when 1km is the difference between 100% and 40% dmg you're not having an easy time
You could, y'know, fit something other than the -50% range ammo. Or perhaps try using autocannons some day, which you'll find actually have even less optimal. AND less tracking too.
Still mounted on a rifter it beats the any blaster frig, by EHP or range advantge(depending on the fitting if you use 400mm plate or MSE). Also weaker amno offer little in range(simlar to aks) and since all have the same damagetype it is quite pointless to use them with blasters(since you throw away the only advantage you have).
Also the problems on small blasters are very minor copared to med\large, by the simple reason that the ships move a lot faster and are a lot more agile(even in web range).
Kind of offtopic question here James but, why all the hate about blasterships? I read this in basicly any post and I can¦t get a clue where it comes from. Since the time where blaster ships pawned the crap out of people are 3.5-4 years gone as we speek, it is simply a bit beyond me, since lots of things have changed since this time. It endet with the introduction of rigs/hp/cap boost in the end 2006 or early 2007 as my memory serves me(plus the mass additon to MWDs to nerf the first nano BS). After this people where able to outtank common fits and with the addet buffer the gank effect wasn¦t the same anymore, plus the plated and rigged ships became slower and less agile. From there it went down to the state we got today, nearly one year after thst devastating patch, namely QR. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Amitious Turkey
Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.29 23:28:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Isabelle Sparks Edited by: Isabelle Sparks on 29/09/2009 20:10:31
Originally by: bloodlust priest "dear ccp pls make my close range guns less close range, although i fully understood that having the closest range guns would mean i wouldnt have the same range as if i had choosen lasors i figured id wait 6 years and start complaining about it now. i think my blasters should track better than autocannons and outdamage lasors till 30 km (as i know they already outdamage them till about 22km)
Dear CCP please make my close range guns own all other guns in their intended range as much as the other guns own me in theirs.
How about that? So Blasters do ~0 damage at 45km, make sure that pulses do 0 damage at 10km. Deal?
QFT.
BECAUSE OF FALCONDUST!
Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3
GO NAVIGATOR <3 |
Vyktor Abyss
Gallente The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.29 23:31:00 -
[82]
The reason Gallente appear to moan the most is because Gallente have waited the longest since the last direct boost.
Even drone bandwidth, sold by Oveur as a boost to droneships, was a massive set of nerfs to the Gallente and boosts for others, then there's EM resist change helping Minnies.
I'd compile a list of all the nerfs since the last boost, but it'd be tl;dr
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Dyaven
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.09.29 23:51:00 -
[83]
Because Blasters are the worst weapon system at the moment (aside from Large Projectiles- although Large Railguns aren't much better) and drone-based ships can have all/most of their DPS destroyed. If I could, I'd swap my 20m SP in Gallente skills for Amarr or Minmatar any day.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 00:21:00 -
[84]
Quote: Why do ppl say gallente suck?
Cause their all ladyboys who'll do anything for $5... and caldari are lonely people who find ladyboys very attractive.
hence the spreading of the rumour gallente suck ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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kessah
Anonymous Alcoholics Wrath.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 01:22:00 -
[85]
Edited by: kessah on 30/09/2009 01:24:46
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
2) Although I find some of the ships you suggested (Armageddon, Harbinger, Hurricane) easier to use in fleet PvP, the Megathron and Myrmidon excell in small gang/solo PvP which yes, does occur in the game...Albeit not as much as blob gangs where I'm sure I would take a laser boat over a blaster/drone boat.
Don't have much to say about the Arazu, never flown one. But yeah, the Myrmidon sure as hell ain't outclassed by the other Tier 2 BC's. Far from it in fact.
I solo, all the time.
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: kessah
Megathrons are very different to Geddons and torp Ravens. You would use them for different reasons. Considering they will 9 times out of 10 use an MWD, which in its own right makes them advantageous in other aspects.
... Does this mean that you don't use an MWD in Geddon or torp Raven? Enh...
no.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.09.30 01:23:00 -
[86]
Enyo - Tons of DPS out of a tech 2 frig, consider it the Deimos' baby sister.
Ishkur - Viable to be fitted for both range and distance. Can dish out damage and get away in a pinch.
Vexor - Simply the most awesome of the tier 3 cruisers, this ship is like a miniature dominix without utility midslots.
Thorax - Glass cannon. High DPS, not always primaried, can fit buffer to survive.
Celestis - Niche cruiser that can specialize in some rather interesting ewar fits.
Brutix - Rad ship. Can shield tank or buffer armor tank, and deal insane amounts of DPS in a short amount of time (AND it's insurable!)
Myrmidon - Sweet, but was overnerfed. Can tank and gank at the same time. Both Gallente battlecruisers are great solo ships.
Deimos - Glass cannon. Dies at the start of a fight, but only after you've removed someone from their ship first.
Vigilant - The end all be all of gank cruisers, this ship sports more DPS and has great solo capability when properly fitted. Problem is it is a gank magnet, so be careful ;3
Eris - erm, this ship needs help :<
Nemesis - A fine stealth bomber, like any other.
Arazu - Point from 60km? Okay :D
Lachesis - Point from 30km and bear down hard with missiles and drones. Or, fit remote sebos and help a tackler out :D
Helios - Sad little ship which has no real role anymore :(
Oneiros - Excellent support ship and patches holes in the Gallente tracking problems. Great ship to have in any fleet.
Megathron - There's a reason you don't see armageddons and apocalypses flying around in blobs -- because Megathrons put them to shame.
Dominix - lol
Hyperion - Not quite sure where to put this ship, it seems like a confused Megathron.
Vindicator - **** from any distance. One on one this ship should beat just about anything, even a neut domi.
Kronos - Amazing slow but has extremely nice DPS.
Sin - Great ship when fitted correctly, but needs help in the tank department.
Thanatos - Drone rage >:O
Moros - Mah drones /o\ Moros is now being relegated to 'the spare' dreadnought
Nyx - The best supercapital support ship, period. Outrageous DPS, excellent support bonuses, versatile slot layout allows for tank, gank and support.
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Sebastien LaForge
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.30 01:42:00 -
[87]
My ***** about blasters is they're so point blank, so inflexible, that if you can't dictate the range to stay on their ass you're ****ed. Boo hoo autos have less optimal! They have 9km+ falloff plus no energy needs plus ammo shooting both EM/EXP at the same time. I fear minmatar ships because between the range, usual neuting, and damage types, either I stay in range and do alright or just die in the water. Blaster damage isn't that much better than autos in my experience because I have to spend time and still try to stay in range to do decent damage.
Other than blasters I'm fine. Meh Rails are alright. not awesome, but I've found them decent.
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abrasive soap
Bannable Offense. Petition This
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Posted - 2009.09.30 02:26:00 -
[88]
because of myrmidon
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buttesauce
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Posted - 2009.09.30 02:49:00 -
[89]
gallente is just average for most stuff (with a bunch of really good ships) and there is nothing wrong with being average
gallente also doesn't have any truly terrible ships either (except maybe the dictor)
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GenJoe
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Posted - 2009.09.30 03:50:00 -
[90]
I'm about 4 days into cross training to gallente but so far even with gallente frig at level 4 I really have to say that the 75mm rail incursus is the best t1 frigate available. It really outclasses all the other t1 frigs with the range flexibility it holds with good dps and somewhat decent tracking.
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