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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.09.28 15:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/09/2009 15:57:20
Stop it.
In every thread about any subject, there's always someone who is *****ing that "EVE is a sandbox game, therefore you are wrong".
Sandbox doesn't mean "I get to have the game exactly as I want it".. I, for example, would love to warp into random peoples' missions and gank them with no repercussions (CONCORD or otherwise). . I'm not, however, going to ***** to CCP that my inability to do that removes the sandboxyness (shut up, it's close enough to a word) of EVE, nor that it limits my playstyle. I understand that regardless of the "Sandbox", such a mechanic would be stupid and unbalanced.
It's time for people to actually think and actually make arguments and discuss things. The "sandbox" argument isn't the only one, of course...It's just the latest translation of "BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" that the forumgoers have used to whine with instead of actually posting something constructive.
Disclaimer: This post is about the stupid nature of the "Sandbox" argument. It is not in any way directed towards any one position or group. If you take offense to this go violate yourself with a rake (ingame)
Disclaimer 2: I wouldn't care if this crap wasn't spilling over into other, typically more-constructive forums.
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2009.09.28 15:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Emily Spankratchet on 28/09/2009 16:05:29
I'm sorry, but EVE is a sandbox game, therefore you are wrong.
Edit: More seriously, "sandbox" doesn't mean that anything is possible. In a sandbox, you can build many things with the tools provided (a bucket, spade, and mould in the shape of a rabbit, more than likely). You can't build every possible thing, because the tools doesn't support it. Similarly, the rules in place (gravity, the physics of sand, and so on) limit your options. The GTA series are widely considered sandbox games, but they don't allow you to fly unaided, leap buildings in a single bound, or transform into a manatee[1].
If "EVE is a sandbox game, therefore you are wrong" means "CCP have allowed this to happen within the framework of their game, and don't actively discourage it, therefore you are wrong" it's a valid riposte. If if means "I want to be able to do this thing, and I can't, WAAAAAAAA", it's a bunch of old toss and you're right to disparage it. But not everybody who bandies about the word sandbox is an idiot.
[1]Disclaimer: I haven't played GTA IV, so I may have missed recent marine mammal-related additions to the game play.
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Emil Erlenmeyer
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Posted - 2009.09.28 15:59:00 -
[3]
EVE is a sandbox game, therefore you are wrong.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:00:00 -
[4]
Crap, I agree with a Suddenly Ninja. I tried to disagree... But couldn't find where .
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:04:00 -
[5]
I like the sandbox argument. In a sandbox game it should be allowed to bring that sandbox argument.
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Haraldhardrade
Amarr Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden "BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW"
Stopped reading here, chances are you are wrong. Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:08:00 -
[7]
Eve is a sandbox game, therefore you are wrong
Originally by: Hamshoe
Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:09:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 28/09/2009 16:09:38 It's a valid argument. Some rules are acceptable for balance reasons, but the main focus of design should be to provide more options and mechanics for players to do things instead of creating more hard coded/NPC enforced limitations, that only limit players choices. This is what sandbox means to me. The key is empowering players and removing NPC run mechanics and limitations where they aren't absolutely necessary.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:12:00 -
[9]
Eve is a Sandbox game and therefor...
I am always right! _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:45:00 -
[10]
Sand is an EVEbox game, therefore you are wrong
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Sand is an EVEbox game, therefore you are wrong
Sand is a heavier form of Dust, but I prefer to call it Rust 514.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden that the forumgoers have used to whine with instead of actually posting something constructive.
Op doesn't 'get' forum goers. Eve-O is a separate standalone game whose only connection to the game servers is the database link to fetch our names and pics.
Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING
Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal |
Shiganaru
Amarr Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Shiganaru on 28/09/2009 17:21:01 Eve was intended to be a sandbox, where given the tools, a player can play the game anyway he wishes; however, CCP also intended for Eve to be realistic, so they designed the game around a back-story, and used the back-story as a means to develop the tools for the player to use.
If you visualize this as a playground sandbox, the sandbox is Eve, the shovel/spade/rake are our ships, the sand are the minerals we mine to build mods and ships, but the boundaries of the sandbox is the back-story that CCP created.
Yes, the player is free to pirate, mine, rat, run missions, as long as it is within the boundaries of the sandbox. Those boundaries are decided by the back-story which CCP wrote. CONCORD will pop any pirate within Empire, because it was written into that back story; however, CCP has also given the tools to make exceptions to this particular boundary in the form of War Decs. Whenever you declare war and pay that little fee, you are in effect bribing CONCORD to look the other way.
This system is not perfect, but the tools we use to play the game are being refined with every patch.
Anyway, I wrote way more than I intended, but heh.
-Shiganaru
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Kahega Amielden that the forumgoers have used to whine with instead of actually posting something constructive.
Op doesn't 'get' forum goers. Eve-O is a separate standalone game whose only connection to the game servers is the database link to fetch our names and pics.
Amen. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:27:00 -
[15]
"EVE is a Sandbox" and " Risk vs Reward" are both visiting Abused Buzzphrases Anonymous sessions regularly. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:34:00 -
[16]
A Metaphor I just thought of: EVE is a giant sandbox. You have certain tools at your hands, spade, bucket, etc. But is you start hitting the other kids in the face with your spade, the warden is gonna come and say "shame on you". Unless you're in the part of the sandox that the warden isn't watching.
~ MED-SEC ~ AND The Blatantly Obvious |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:48:00 -
[17]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 28/09/2009 17:52:12
Eve is a sandbox!!1 I'm allowed to pee and crap where I want. That's what sand is for, dummy! DUH!
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.28 18:03:00 -
[18]
I have just one word for you:
PIZZA.
Oh, and my cat loves the sandbox. ___________________________________________________ Idea: Train 3 alts at the same time solution. |
Chi'kote
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Posted - 2009.09.28 18:17:00 -
[19]
To add a dash of seriousness to this thread-gone-wild, I agree. "Sandbox" has been used as a validation to or not to implement every idea, good, bad, and everywhere in between. Without actually counting, it is probably used in 75% of all threads in the features and ideas forum. I am tired of it, it is stupid, and the people who use it are the people who don't have a clue on how to defend their idea or argument against an idea. If you have a valid reasoning for or against something, you don't need to say "eve is a sandbox." ENOUGH!
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MachineGunDave
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.28 20:12:00 -
[20]
CCP themselves describe EVE as a playground. This is in relation to other MMO's that they refer to as amusement parks. They elaborate by saying your only limit in EVE should be your imagination vs MMO's which they describe as having pre-engineered rides that one must wait in line for and it never changes.
As the OP says, he would love to warp into random people's missions and gank them with no repercussions. And he absolutely can in this game. There are hundreds of systems he can do this in.
What the OP really wants a lot of real easy kills, unfortunately some of the fights in Low-sec or 0.0 won't be in his favor, hence he'll stick to Hi-sec due to the inherent safety for him and the game mechanics that allow him to pick and choose his fights.
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Gerrosh
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Posted - 2009.09.28 21:21:00 -
[21]
"Sandbox" does not mean total freedom of acting, it's just a short way to say that you are free to choose from a decent amount of possibilities. And just as in real life, there are rules and mechanics you have to pay attention to. In RL these are commonly referred to as "Laws" and "Physics". You may brake a rule, but you have to face the consequence. A visit from Concord, or the police. And just like in real life, there are ways to avoid these rules. If you want to fight in highsec you learn to canflip and other ways of making "the unaware" "the victim". If you want to fight in real life you become a soldier or mercenary. In eve, you might lose your life and wake up in your clone, in real life u might lose your life and hope that someone will respawn you. (The actual devblog to this issue is already 2000 years old, although there are people saying they have contacted THE DEV, and that you will respawn on another server) In short: learn to live with rules and mechanics, they may change, but they will always be there.
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Korizan
Red Mercury Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.09.28 21:39:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Korizan on 28/09/2009 21:40:28
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Sandbox doesn't mean "I get to have the game exactly as I want it".. I, for example, would love to warp into random peoples' missions and gank them with no repercussions (CONCORD or otherwise). . I'm not, however, going to ***** to CCP that my inability to do that removes the sandboxyness (shut up, it's close enough to a word) of EVE, nor that it limits my playstyle. I understand that regardless of the "Sandbox", such a mechanic would be stupid and unbalanced.
You can do this in 0.0, where the true sandbox is, granted it is a shared sandbox. So just because you built a beautiful castle doesn't mean that kid next to you won't destroy it so they can make there own castle. [No parental supervision]
Low-sec and High-sec are more a kin to having a parent watch over you and decide if you really should be doing something or not, and if you are bad they will punish you. High-sec they are watching you closely. Low-sec they are a bit preoccupied speaking to the neighbors wife
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