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Kyle Myr
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
249
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:07:00 -
[91] - Quote
Jump bridges, while definitely nice, are more of a convenience feature for daily travel than a rapid way to deploy fleets. Power projection generally has more to due with capital jump mechanics and bridges.
Technetium is a problem. Mittani himself has been saying this since he got on CSM 6, and has been calling for a rebalance openly and loudly the whole time. In the mean time, though, we're going to get as rich as we possibly can, with the rest of OTEC.
edit: post above me says it better than my post did. Delve has horrible logistics though and I don't want to go back there. |

Tobiaz
Spacerats
591
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:13:00 -
[92] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:There is a problem with tech being so centralized. The old P/D bottleneck had some moons everywhere, but some regions much richer than others. Scalding Pass had its like three r64s, while Esoteria had like 16-20. So you had a nice curve of region value.
Now, it's simply binary: technetium region: insane isk/nontechnetium region: worthless
The primary thing that's ****** about tech is that it's so strongly regional. R64s as the bottleneck gives you a much better state of affairs in nullsec.
CCP mixing up the building requirements shifting the bottleneck to a R32 indeed doesn't make a lot of sense. If wonder if adding some alchemy recipes would be enough to at least fix this mistake?
IMHO there is nothing wrong with a nice bottleneck, but Tech seems to have been a bad choice for various reasons. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-a Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
370
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:16:00 -
[93] - Quote
Dirch Passer wrote:Much may not be scientifically believable, in the EVE universe... But the shuffling of moons seems a bit too fuzzy to be called logic.
why you have never heard of an ore deposit before? you know that the moon is not completely made out of tech and even it was somehow that the moon would eventually deplete.... PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3270
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:17:00 -
[94] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote: CCP mixing up the building requirements shifting the bottleneck to a R32 indeed doesn't make a lot of sense. If wonder if adding some alchemy recipes would be enough to at least fix this mistake?
Adding tech alchemy would shift the bottleneck to Neo, another r64. From my recollection this is nicely distributed about the map, with high and low intensity but no regionalization (much like P/D).
CCP also rebalanced moons not realizing how the system worked: they were trying to make the "lower-tier" moons worth something (a flat impossibility in a bottlenecking system like moongoo). Tech wasn't intentional. |

Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
633
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:IMHO there is nothing wrong with a nice bottleneck, but Tech seems to have been a bad choice for various reasons.
"choice"
WOLOLOLOL
Any dev who tells you the tech bottleneck was intentional is a ******* liar.
|

MaCoola
RSK. Curbstomp..
13
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:18:00 -
[96] - Quote
Iniquita wrote:Everyone who supports this has never done alliance logistics.
**** everything about having to tear down/setup towers on a monthly basis not to mention the never ending moon scanning in your territory. Asking people to tear down towers because where once platinum existed is now technetium. Or tear down their reaction farm, research pos, or jump bridge pos because suddenly a moon resource needs to be mined there.
Been there done that and yes it is work but hey, after a few days it's all good. MAOR TEARS! |

Tobiaz
Spacerats
591
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:22:00 -
[97] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Tobiaz wrote:IMHO there is nothing wrong with a nice bottleneck, but Tech seems to have been a bad choice for various reasons. "choice" WOLOLOLOL Any dev who tells you the tech bottleneck was intentional is a ******* liar.
Touch+, 
Still, Akita T with some number-crunching quickly foresaw what CCP should have realized themselves. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-a Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |

Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
123
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:22:00 -
[98] - Quote
MaCoola wrote:Iniquita wrote:Everyone who supports this has never done alliance logistics.
**** everything about having to tear down/setup towers on a monthly basis not to mention the never ending moon scanning in your territory. Asking people to tear down towers because where once platinum existed is now technetium. Or tear down their reaction farm, research pos, or jump bridge pos because suddenly a moon resource needs to be mined there.
Been there done that and yes it is work but hey, after a few days it's all good. MAOR TEARS!
Those should deplete just like PI, sometimes you get for a month and others only for a week, now this is effort 
Who cares about tech? -Drakes and Tengus don't use it, just fly smarter. brb |

Syndrea Caedrion
State War Academy Caldari State
4
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:30:00 -
[99] - Quote
The Groundskeeper wrote:There are several ways to rebalance tech that should be looked at but only dirt-eating simpletons who have never had to scan so much as a constellation, let alone a region every few weeks. And that's before the effect on logisticians who have to unanchor and reanchor hundreds of towers and mods every month or so because some knuckle-dragging chucklepov was a bit jealous but too incompetent to take any tech for himself.
Eve is hard, right? Isn't that what you guys are constantly enspousing? Do you need a cookie and a hug?
Shuffling would be cruel, I think, but amusing to my sadistic impulses. However, I think that, in accordance with the whole risk vs reward, Eve has consequences mindset, Tech moons should be exclusive to losec only. You want it, you have to fight for it, on a daily basis if needs be. Losec represents the section of space where the greatest risks are taken everyday, why shouldn't it possess the greatest rewards as well?
You can argue nulsec should possess such an honor, but frankly, once you amass huge chunks of real estate, well...even a toon from a large alliance admitted that their backyard is beyond safe. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3270
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
Nullsec empires have absolutely no difficulty taking lowsec tech moons from worthless nobodies and protecting them from worthless nobodies. |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3270
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:34:00 -
[101] - Quote
Leaving aside, of course, the nonsense that lowsec is where "the greatest risks" are taken as you can't even be bubbled into a station let alone be locked out of it. |

Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:35:00 -
[102] - Quote
Syndrea Caedrion wrote:The Groundskeeper wrote:There are several ways to rebalance tech that should be looked at but only dirt-eating simpletons who have never had to scan so much as a constellation, let alone a region every few weeks. And that's before the effect on logisticians who have to unanchor and reanchor hundreds of towers and mods every month or so because some knuckle-dragging chucklepov was a bit jealous but too incompetent to take any tech for himself. Eve is hard, right? Isn't that what you guys are constantly enspousing? Do you need a cookie and a hug? Shuffling would be cruel, I think, but amusing to my sadistic impulses. However, I think that, in accordance with the whole risk vs reward, Eve has consequences mindset, Tech moons should be exclusive to losec only. You want it, you have to fight for it, on a daily basis if needs be. Losec represents the section of space where the greatest risks are taken everyday, why shouldn't it possess the greatest rewards as well? You can argue nulsec should possess such an honor, but frankly, once you amass huge chunks of real estate, well...even a toon from a large alliance admitted that their backyard is beyond safe.
Nullsec empires are safe because of the efforts of the people who live there. If only Highsec could be the same way. |

Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
173
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:41:00 -
[103] - Quote
Stu Pendisdick wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:I can think of about 4 or 5 other threads explaining how it's an idiotic idea, so no need to repeat it here.
Of course you'll hear that from those with a vested interest in the status quo. I've a feeling that they are in the minority by a large margin.
I have zero vested interest in moons, but I have had to scan moons & do all the pos stuff. It's a ****** job & I think most people who do it would rather subject themselves to electro-testicle torture. |

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
408
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:46:00 -
[104] - Quote
I'm kind of enjoying how all of these people who have never setup a POS or gone through the pain of a full region scan are wanting people in nullsec to do it just because it hurts "Us goonies". |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
374
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:I'm kind of enjoying how all of these people who have never setup a POS or gone through the pain of a full region scan are wanting people in nullsec to do it just because it hurts "Us goonies".
too bad mittenz is a drunk...
for if he was still in csm then you guys would know about the pos revamp for winter expansion...
silly goons... PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
408
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:49:00 -
[106] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Stu Pendisdick wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:I can think of about 4 or 5 other threads explaining how it's an idiotic idea, so no need to repeat it here.
Of course you'll hear that from those with a vested interest in the status quo. I've a feeling that they are in the minority by a large margin. I have zero vested interest in moons, but I have had to scan moons & do all the pos stuff. It's a ****** job & I think most people who do it would rather subject themselves to electro-testicle torture.
We have an entire team dedicated to each task: And the burnout on both are absolutely ridiculous. Because it's not fun. There's no little game you can play in your head to make it fun. Ratting is more entertaining. Mining is more interactive and engaging. Maintaining POS and JB networks is ******* grueling for the people doing it. And shooting through systems moon scanning is ugh. I lasted a week in our moon recon division and I barely got anything done. |

Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
634
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
This thread needs more utterly clueless, hisec mouthbreathers weighing in on nullsec mechanics and gameplay. |

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
408
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:59:00 -
[108] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I'm kind of enjoying how all of these people who have never setup a POS or gone through the pain of a full region scan are wanting people in nullsec to do it just because it hurts "Us goonies". too bad mittenz is a drunk... for if he was still in csm then you guys would know about the pos revamp for winter expansion... silly goons...
Yeah look, you've never seen a proper large POS have you? Even with those changes it's still going to be painful. And you people seem eerily fixated on Mittens. I don't know how to break it to you but my hero worship of him falls far short of your villain worship of him. |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1814
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:59:00 -
[109] - Quote
Iniquita wrote:Everyone who supports this has never done alliance logistics.
**** everything about having to tear down/setup towers on a monthly basis not to mention the never ending moon scanning in your territory. Asking people to tear down towers because where once platinum existed is now technetium. Or tear down their reaction farm, research pos, or jump bridge pos because suddenly a moon resource needs to be mined there.
Better yet, Cap Assembly array POS with baby Titan. Single-Shard, Player Driven-aSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3272
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:59:00 -
[110] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I'm kind of enjoying how all of these people who have never setup a POS or gone through the pain of a full region scan are wanting people in nullsec to do it just because it hurts "Us goonies". too bad mittenz is a drunk... for if he was still in csm then you guys would know about the pos revamp for winter expansion... silly goons...
ahh yes because CCP's statements about what will be in a patch 6 months out are highly reliable as is their ability to revamp things to be better, not worse
silly us |
|

Shaampoo
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
54
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:59:00 -
[111] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Stu Pendisdick wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:I can think of about 4 or 5 other threads explaining how it's an idiotic idea, so no need to repeat it here.
Of course you'll hear that from those with a vested interest in the status quo. I've a feeling that they are in the minority by a large margin. I have zero vested interest in moons, but I have had to scan moons & do all the pos stuff. It's a ****** job & I think most people who do it would rather subject themselves to electro-testicle torture. We have an entire team dedicated to each task: And the burnout on both are absolutely ridiculous. Because it's not fun. There's no little game you can play in your head to make it fun. Ratting is more entertaining. Mining is more interactive and engaging. Maintaining POS and JB networks is ******* grueling for the people doing it. And shooting through systems moon scanning is ugh. I lasted a week in our moon recon division and I barely got anything done. Sounds like quite the issue
QQQQ our 8000 man corp on a major power bloc has to scan all these moons :((((
And jump briges out of 8000 people finding some one to get the fuel and move it the Jb is just unreasonable
holy **** is the largest eve corp really complaining about the dullness of nullsec
If it really sucks that bad stop doing half your moons
|

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
408
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:01:00 -
[112] - Quote
Look at you getting all frothy. |

Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
123
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:02:00 -
[113] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:This thread needs more utterly clueless, hisec mouthbreathers weighing in on nullsec mechanics and gameplay.
You seem angry
brb |

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
408
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:02:00 -
[114] - Quote
You pubbies sure do get mad when people come up with logical reasons why your ideas are pants on head stupid. It's almost like you are more upset at the person than the message.
Oh wait I'm a goon. Duuuuuuh. |

Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:You pubbies sure do get mad when people come up with logical reasons why your ideas are pants on head stupid. It's almost like you are more upset at the person than the message.
Oh wait I'm a goon. Duuuuuuh.
dumb goonie, learn your place!
(It's nowhere) |

Svarek
36
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:08:00 -
[116] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:You pubbies sure do get mad when people come up with logical reasons why your ideas are pants on head stupid. It's almost like you are more upset at the person than the message.
Oh wait I'm a goon. Duuuuuuh.
No, you're somebody the goon must be bribing to communicate for him, because everyone knows they can't speak outside of guttural grunts, let alone write a coherent sentence. Please read the above post with facetiousness, sarcasm, and irony detectors activated. |

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
193
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:09:00 -
[117] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:I don't think this is the answer to the goal you seek. There's a difference between sparking pvp conflicts and forcing alliances to upend their poses and all their equipment and move every few months. The logistics would suck and no doubt the grunts would get sick of moving their crap from station to station. Part of the reward for null is staking out a home and being secure in the knowledge you're going to hold it for the forseeable future. Oh, the youthful innocence. 
Null-sec sovereignty is never guaranteed for any period of time. The day that you move into your captured outpost is the day that you should have finalized and executed on your plans for being assaulted by an even bigger fish.
Null-sec is more fluid than you may realize and thus is healthier to think of it as a spce for nomadic life. Be ready to pick up your tent stakes at any point in time and you will have a much easier go of things.
See you out there, Space Cowboy.  284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
408
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:10:00 -
[118] - Quote
Alia Gon'die wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:You pubbies sure do get mad when people come up with logical reasons why your ideas are pants on head stupid. It's almost like you are more upset at the person than the message.
Oh wait I'm a goon. Duuuuuuh. dumb goonie, learn your place! (It's nowhere)
Moms Basement :v |

Tobiaz
Spacerats
591
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:11:00 -
[119] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:We have an entire team dedicated to each task: And the burnout on both are absolutely ridiculous. Because it's not fun. There's no little game you can play in your head to make it fun. Ratting is more entertaining. Mining is more interactive and engaging. Maintaining POS and JB networks is ******* grueling for the people doing it. And shooting through systems moon scanning is ugh. I lasted a week in our moon recon division and I barely got anything done.
While I think the idea of fixing the Tech problem by just making these moons hop all over the galaxy is beyond ridiculous, and scanning moons shouldn't be such a drag, the fact that most moons have been scanned and uploaded to Dotlan for everybody to see (stupid idiots giving away valuable information for free) makes moon-scanning a dead profession by now, which is total waste.
It'd be pretty cool to have moons randomly accumulate exhaustible 'meteorite' deposits over time on top of their base supply of moongoo. That and adding moongoo to W-space but with only a 5% base yield of K-space. Good luck mapping those :P
Ofcourse that would require first updating the dreadfull moon-scanning snooze-fest. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-a Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1814
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:12:00 -
[120] - Quote
Stu Pendisdick wrote: Get rid of the Sov requirements altogether.
What Sov requirements?
There is some evidence to show that holding Tech and Holding Sov are not all that closely linked. Single-Shard, Player Driven-aSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
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