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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 09:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Odins Blood i would like to say shut up. 8 days and i havent hit 500 thousand sp yet. and im doing fine. i mine i go pvp with my clan (and im no help at all. pewpew) and i have fun. with 1 million sp i would not even need a frigate to start with and id be trolling around low sec with the rest of the 1 million sp noobs. i like the idea of raising the speed noobs train and tapering it off. maybe just raise it a bit more and taper it off slowly. not up to 6x though. jeez. then my skills would be worthless. hell why not make it so everybody trains a little faster. and provide a timeline thing so you can figure out how to get to your goal better. im trying to do alot of things and the ingame help and hints and menus are confusing and sometimes not helpful at all. but thats a different story. you play too much wow if you think noobs getting 1mil sp is at all reasonable. and thats from a noob.
Download Evemon; it is awesome for planning out your skill training.
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Odins Blood
Nagrom Security Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:56:00 -
[32]
wow really? i didnt bother to check and see if there were actualy a program for it. id like one in the game sorta but that will work. thank you.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2009.09.30 20:04:00 -
[33]
Let's give new players a jump start with SP!
First, we can put out a new skill set: Learning skills. These could raise your attributes for each level. We could have two skills for each attribute, even! This could double the speed you learn at! Training the basic skill to level 5 in order to train the advanced skill would be too much, though, so make level 4 the prereq.
Hmm.... That's not enough. How about we give every new player a vast amount of skill points to start out with, something like 800,000 SP. No, wait, we should let them assign it any way they want. How about instead for the first month or so we give them double the training speed. Yes, double!
My creative wheels are spinning now. That's not enough. These new players might have attributes that aren't suited for what they find out they want to do in the game. Let's let them choose the attributes, too! New players should at least get a couple chance to do this. We could call it neural remapping!
TL;DR: Trading RL money for skill points is fail, but the devs have already done quite a bit to allow new players to train faster and get skills faster.
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Irongut
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.10.01 01:43:00 -
[34]
Like other older players I started with less sp than a current new player gets. Did I sit in station just training for 6 months? No, not even 6 minutes. The new player content is doable and a good player learning experience, get out there and experience it while you still have the right sp for it to be challenging.
-- Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:19:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Irongut get out there and experience it while you still have the right sp for it to be challenging.
I think this cuts to the heart of the problem. The people who are asking for SP boosts do not want a challenge, they want to be powerful. It is the same as the people who will not mission run till they can cake-walk through it.... training up all their skills and making sure they have an overpowered ship so they feel godly against all those piddling NPC ships. There are not the people who take a frigate into L2 missions or a cruiser into L3 missions.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:51:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 01/10/2009 19:52:51 My new alt has all basic learning skills to V (minus charisma), and all advanced learning skills to 4 (again minus charisma). She is a little over 2 weeks old. I admit it might have taken longer if I were truly a new player, without access to +3s, but still using Evemon to plan and your free respec getting great learning skills really fast is very easy. I assume you could do the same thing to get into a mission BC quickly.
These "New Player's Are At a Disadvantage" threads stem from a basic misunderstanding of EvE. You are assuming that Skillpoints = Power, as in WoW or WAR where Level = Power.
I started Eve back when all characters started with about 35k (give or take) SP and NO training bonus or respec. I've had fun since day one. Your problem is not the new player experience, it's your desire to equate EvE with other MMOs. It's is not, and never will be. The sooner you can deal with that the sooner you'll be enjoying yourself.
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Mr Laden
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Posted - 2009.10.02 09:22:00 -
[37]
-YOU already have the bonus to training to 1.6 mil sp -YOU now have the skill queue which I never had!
Stop complaining and be patient!
EVE is a harsh game to new players..its a godforsaken place where you have to build your own character from scratch.
In school they also didn't gave you a straight A to begin with....
prove yourself to be worthy...
-welcome to eve-
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sue AGPlant
Minmatar Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.10.02 12:25:00 -
[38]
OP mentions WOW this makes the idea auto fail
seriously
not suported
1 your wow friends dont like eve BECAUSE they are wow people the mind sets are totaly diferent STOP!!!!! trying to make it the same i tried WoW once it made me want to scoop out my eyes within 5 mins of mind numbing bordem did i run to the forums and ask them to change it? NO so please stop.
I came in at RMR 800k points and i got to 2 mil before someone told me about the learning skills and my 1st thought was awsome i can learn stuff while im away without grind allowing me to sample the diff aspects of the game not just [stand in spot x kick npc y in the shins from now till dooms day]
with the remaps time accelerator etc you can get in a af (new boost ftw) or a ceptor faily quickly in the order of a few weeks i beleve from what i have been told) and quite honestly even though im up to 50+ mill sps these are the ships im currently having the most fun in. rememver kids its only a couple mill sps reasonably speced in a t2 frig which means 40+ million skill points im not using in that ship.
the only advantage i have over a noob is that i can fly more stuff. If you go toe to to with a nub in a frig it can be a close match if the nub practices and is just plane better than you he may even win. You dont get that ever just by sitting in a station for 6 months farming sp.
/RANT
P.S. well that was a longer rant than i pictured in my head (also i suffered so should you )
CCP: destroying the game we love 1 nerf at a time.
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Sybilla Prior
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Posted - 2009.10.02 14:20:00 -
[39]
I'm currious if anyone at CCP knows exactly how many new players have quit because they felt they couldn't be effective for the first 6 months. Even if it's perfectly possible for players to be effective quickly, if people are leaving because they don't believe it, something is wrong.
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Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2009.10.02 14:37:00 -
[40]
It took me less than two weeks to be out fighting, back the day I started and what did we get 200k SP or something? Back then I didn't know anyone else who played the game, but there are who have 50-100mil SP and all they do is train their skills.
Yeah, I made some 100 dps on my t1 lolfit rifters and stabbers, but guess what? Sometimes I did even better than on full t2 gear ****. Blindly attacking **** can be surprisingly productive.
You either play the game or you sit in the station and your SP got very little to do with it. |
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Tsasam
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Posted - 2009.10.02 14:39:00 -
[41]
Not supported!
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Nai Ling
Amarr Middle Finger Technology
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Posted - 2009.10.03 02:16:00 -
[42]
Magic 8-ball says: "Outlook not so good."
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BooTmahPooT
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Posted - 2009.10.03 22:23:00 -
[43]
Originally by: En Passant
The problem isn't that it takes so long.. the problem is that you are relatively worthless for months.
No. There are plenty of empire corps to run missions in. There is the "red" and "blue" empire wars corps to pvp with. Someone already said if a corp told you your worthless they are ******ed and you need to find another. Make your own corp if you want to. The is EVE. Do wtf ever you want to.
The 100% multiplier is perfect. gaining 8mill sp in 3 months imo is way to much. For a normal noob that 8mill sp will take closer to 6-8 months. If you stop staring at the character sheet skills train faster too.
If you guys want to keep whining go play WoW and grind it out.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2009.10.04 01:07:00 -
[44]
I agree. Everyone who doesn't is an elitist veteran loser who wants to retain their e-peen size difference. I have many friends who make an account and a character to try the game because the way I talk about eve makes it sound awesome. Then they have to wait for months before they can actually play or be useful, and normally quit. -omg-
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.10.04 04:34:00 -
[45]
Originally by: hired goon I agree. Everyone who doesn't is an elitist veteran loser who wants to retain their e-peen size difference. I have many friends who make an account and a character to try the game because the way I talk about eve makes it sound awesome. Then they have to wait for months before they can actually play or be useful, and normally quit.
you dont have to be an elitist veteran to fly rifters for tackling.
maybe ask your friends in goonswarm about rifters and introduce your friends to them.
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Altus Morningstar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.04 09:29:00 -
[46]
Christ these kids today. They all want new cars given to them by mommy and daddy. Sigh ...
Oh OP needs to settle down and just play.
The end is extremely f'ing nigh. |
hired goon
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Posted - 2009.10.04 10:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: hired goon I agree. Everyone who doesn't is an elitist veteran loser who wants to retain their e-peen size difference. I have many friends who make an account and a character to try the game because the way I talk about eve makes it sound awesome. Then they have to wait for months before they can actually play or be useful, and normally quit.
you dont have to be an elitist veteran to fly rifters for tackling.
maybe ask your friends in goonswarm about rifters and introduce your friends to them.
Yeah, great. After I've got them all hyped up for the awesome Eve experience, I can give them a rifter & scrambler and say "Do this for a few months. You can't actually do any of the stuff I was talking about, lol." -omg-
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Deldrac
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.04 10:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Seriously, don't do this.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.04 11:20:00 -
[49]
As most of the people here I think that giving away a large bunch of SP to people that don't even know how the game work is a sure path for failure.
The next step would be "We need to be capable of respeccing our skills, as we did them wrong"
A suggestion that I have often seen and that, a this point in the game evolution, I would support, is to remove the first tier of the stat enhancing skills and give directly a +5 increase in all skills.
People that have trained all the learning skills to 5 like me will feel a bit shortchanged, but most of us would not stay irritated for more than a few minutes, especially if CCP gave some of the Sp we spent back in some form.
Naturally it would not have the same effect on new players that saying "you have 1.280.00 SP (the 5 tier one skills at level 5) to spend as you want as a free gift" but it would do much more to help them that giving free SP that most of them would spend to learn to fly cruisers without even knowing the basic of the game.
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.10.04 19:47:00 -
[50]
They should just get rid of the training skills, give everyone the extra stat points like we all had max learning, and then give everyone who has skill-points in learning double-speed training for twice the number of SP they had in learning.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.10.04 19:58:00 -
[51]
Originally by: SupremeCommander Smith New players need a jump start with sp. For example 5 - 10 mil sp that can be assigned any way they want. This would be for new accounts only, 1 character only, and they could pay a premium to CCP. For example, if 5mil sp = 3 months training time, then the cost would be a 3 month membership premium.
Background: We had a group of 5 people all started playing EvE a couple of months ago. 2 have already dropped out. One has been playing WoW while waiting for SP to train. Myself and the other person, have concluded that we will just sit at space station for the next 6 months or so while we train.
Now, before you get your knickers in a knot, it doesn't matter if this is "right" or "wrong" - this is what has happened.
It doesn't do CCP any good to advertise on TV for new players, when they already have new players that quit due to unrealistic new player limitations. It also doesn't do CCP or EvE any good because I won't recommend it to new people because it takes too long to get started.
All the shortcuts to speed up training, such as buying characters, learning books, implants, etc. to help this, realistically only benefit long term players. For a new character such as myself, the learning books alone takes 2 months to train - with implants.
In the end, CCP is losing money by losing players. I would like to see CCP make money so that we get better servers, less lag, a better game = more players.
Not supported, more than half of the Dominion patch is a massive boost to new players ... you can't have more. --- I smack just for myself.
* Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout |
Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.04 20:10:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Irongut Like other older players I started with less sp than a current new player gets. Did I sit in station just training for 6 months? No, not even 6 minutes. The new player content is doable and a good player learning experience, get out there and experience it while you still have the right sp for it to be challenging.
eve is a complex game, you use those few months to understand the way it works, for beefing up your wallet, trading, making friends, finding the right corp, choosing part of game you like, learning how to pvp, fit your ships, e.t.c. I am a relatively new player, and there is plenty of stuf newplayers can do. You are not suppose to be able to get as good and someone who played this game for few years withing couple of days, at least not in anything except flying t1 frigs. Fix Destroyers |
Scerolikk Teromni
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Posted - 2009.10.04 21:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sybilla Prior I'm currious if anyone at CCP knows exactly how many new players have quit because they felt they couldn't be effective for the first 6 months. Even if it's perfectly possible for players to be effective quickly, if people are leaving because they don't believe it, something is wrong.
I'll bet they know. And you know what else I'll bet? I'll bet they don't care. I don't know how many people have active subscriptions to EVE, but I do know that there are probably an average of 30,000 people online at any given time. Just counting that number (30,000), and assuming the average amount they pay per month is $13 (factoring in the lower-rate extended subscriptions, and the higher cost per month of timecards), CCP is making $390,000/mo gross income. Though I remember reading that there are several hundred thousand active subscriptions, so that number could easily be multiplied by ten. EVE doesn't need more subscribers. Of course, more subscribers does mean more money and that's always a good thing, but they don't need to sacrifice very important game mechanics in order to keep the newbies playing. CCP should be plenty content with the number of subscribers they have now.
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Sybilla Prior
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Posted - 2009.10.05 00:49:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Scerolikk Teromni
Originally by: Sybilla Prior I'm currious if anyone at CCP knows exactly how many new players have quit because they felt they couldn't be effective for the first 6 months. Even if it's perfectly possible for players to be effective quickly, if people are leaving because they don't believe it, something is wrong.
I'll bet they know. And you know what else I'll bet? I'll bet they don't care. I don't know how many people have active subscriptions to EVE, but I do know that there are probably an average of 30,000 people online at any given time. Just counting that number (30,000), and assuming the average amount they pay per month is $13 (factoring in the lower-rate extended subscriptions, and the higher cost per month of timecards), CCP is making $390,000/mo gross income. Though I remember reading that there are several hundred thousand active subscriptions, so that number could easily be multiplied by ten. EVE doesn't need more subscribers. Of course, more subscribers does mean more money and that's always a good thing, but they don't need to sacrifice very important game mechanics in order to keep the newbies playing. CCP should be plenty content with the number of subscribers they have now.
Well, if what a lot of people here are saying is true and it is indeed possible to be effective within weeks rather than months, then no game mechanics have to be changed. They just need to show new players that it can be done, and how.
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Dirty Wizard
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:29:00 -
[55]
What's with all the new player hate?
Every time a thread pops up about helping new players, it gets flamed and shot down by either CSMs or other players.
Are new players really that unwelcome?
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Flying ZombieJesus
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:51:00 -
[56]
Get rid of learning skills so new players can put that 1.6m sp bonus to things that are useful to them now instead of training things that will help them train other things a month from now.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.10.05 17:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dirty Wizard What's with all the new player hate?
Every time a thread pops up about helping new players, it gets flamed and shot down by either CSMs or other players.
Are new players really that unwelcome?
I'm against this proposal, but I welcome new players. We've taken completely new pilots into our corp and taught them how to survive and then thrive in Eve.
What new pilots need isn't an "easy mode" to get started. What they need is to stop hearing things like "YOU MUST TRAIN ALL LEARNING FIRST!!!" and "YOU WILL BE USELESSS FOR MONTHS."
~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Dretzle Omega
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dirty Wizard What's with all the new player hate?
Every time a thread pops up about helping new players, it gets flamed and shot down by either CSMs or other players.
Are new players really that unwelcome?
No. New players are very welcome. I've run with many since back when I was a new player until now.
The flaming in this and other threads is when new players think Eve should = WoW and want to purchase SP or whine because they can't PWN in the largest ships in the game. Some new players wonder what's the deal, get it explained, and go on happily in their Eve life. Recently I chatted with a new player in my alliance that had some of the same concerns as in this thread. He left, too, but he left because he realized Eve wasn't the type of game he really wanted to play, and he did so with a head on his shoulders.
New players that just want to complain that they can't jump into a Battleship just by grinding NPCs and can't get over the non-WoW aspect is the people that generally aren't welcomed.
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Laruant Wiggins
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:52:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Laruant Wiggins on 05/10/2009 18:56:19 no
add two options at character creation 1.Standard Starter Character 2.Custom Character
maybe
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.07 06:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Not supported, more than half of the Dominion patch is a massive boost to new players ... you can't have more.
Care to point at what part of Dominion is a "massive boost" to new players?
Reducing a few prerequisites?
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