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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.12 09:31:00 -
[1]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Machariel:
òSlot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 7 low slots, 7 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 600 CPU, 17950 powergrid òBonuses: pirate: 25% bonus to large projectile rate of fire, Minmatar battleship: +5% to large projectile turret damage per level, Gallente battleship: +10% falloff to large projectile turrets per level òHitpoints: 9317 shields, 9298 armor, 8260 hull òCapacitor: 5800 capacitor, 1154.875s recharge (about 5.02 cap/s) òDronebay: 100m3 bandwidth, 125m3 dronebay òSpeed: 161m/s max velocity, 0.084 agility, 94,680,000kg òSensor: 62km targeting range, 7 locked targets, 150mm scan resolution, 26 ladar sensor strength, 340m signature radius
So it looks like the Mach is: - Trading Tracking for Falloff - Gaining Damage - Losing some weight - Gaining some agility (Still much less agile than the Panther) - Gaining some fittings
I thiiiink it'll turn out ok. I'll have to look. :)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 18:02:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Right, anyone here that thinks that the rattlesnake has got buffed is out of their mind.
Originally by: CCP ò Bonuses: pirate: 50% to cruise and torpedo missile velocity, Caldari battleship: +5% to all shield resistances per level, Gallente battleship: +10% to drone damage and hitpoints per level
IMO, pirate bonus needs to goto 50% ROF, and leave it with 4 launchers (and no range bonus). Well, a 5th launcher would make it really nice... def not OP next to the other ships mentioned here.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 18:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire 50% rof = 8 effective laucnhers (same as normal raven). This means around 1000dps with torps plus another 480 dps from ogres. Umm... yeah.
CNR has 9.33 eff launchers + 160 DPS from drones (I don't believe in 2/2/1). Raven has 8 eff launchers + 160 DPS from drones. Rattler 8 eff launchers + 475 DPS from drones.
I'm just not seeing a problem here.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 19:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc The rattlesnake has 4 effective launchers for the record.
I had been proposing trading the pirate range bonus for a 50% ROF bonus.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 22:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: A Ingus These ships have more drone ability than Gallente ships, and they get the Caldari use of missiles (with a range bonus cruise or torps > rails or blasters) as well. These ships will be the new carebear par excellence. Golem no longer the sole next step after Raven.
...
Won't work with the Rattlesnakes, they will live forever raking it in in level 4s at a faster rate than ever.
The CNR and Golem are both better mission runners than the new Rattlesnake. There are only 4 unbonused launchers. It is not impressive because its damage is too low.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 22:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Then you're doing it wrong. The new Rattlesnake is a Dominix with 4x missile launchers. Which is way better than a Dominix with 6x gun slots and a hybrid bonus.
Not really. Look at it this way:
SIEGE - 4x Unbonused Siege II, 3x CN BCU, Javs => 392 DPS - 5x Bonused Garde IIs => 450 DPS - Unable to fit sentry damage rigs - Total DPS: 392+450 => 842 DPS
CRUISE - 4x Unbonused Cruise II, 3x CN BCU, Furies => 304 DPS - 5x Bonused Garde IIs, single Sentry Damage Aug => 495 DPS - Unable to get full utility of either drones or missiles (Rigors vs Sentry Damage) - Total DPS => 799 DPS
Domi - 920 DPS, 2 SDA, 2 SS MFS, 5 350 IIs
Nightmare - 915 Turret Only DPS
Sorry, just not all that exciting.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 23:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: A Ingus Liang what is this eft garbage and why only focus on the javelins? See my post in the S&M thread.
Javs because you're a slow pig stuck in the ground because of your sentry drones. But fine, use faction torps. You are still outdamaged by a vanilla CNR, and what's more is that the CNR has better actual damage on target. We can carry the discussion on here or there, doesn't matter.
Also, WRT damage type selection.. the domi has enough extra damage that it probably evens out.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.13 01:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I've been flying a CNR for a bit, just to try it out, on my other account, and I have to say, I'm just not that impressed with it when compared to my Dominix with it's sentry drones. Between the time of flight of the missiles and it's reload time and slow ROF it just doesn't burn through targets quite as fast as I thought it would. EFT isn't everything. A lot of smaller factors contribute to a ships effectiveness than just max tank/gank stats.
These days I could care less what ends up being the best. I can fly everything with equal effectiveness. I just don't like ships sitting around gathering dust because they suck.
Start a thread with your fit in Ships & Modules, or post in the "WHY THE RATTLER IS NEXT PVE MISSION KING". I find the Cruise Raven class of ships to be fantastic. Maybe not a Nightmare, but still pretty honking good!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.13 02:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jason Edwards Rattler also has to compete with the navy domi. Also on page 9 i believe. Someone figures out the dps for torps and cruise... but says no using dmg rigs? No reason why u cant use dmg rigs. So rattler will be a nice pve ship.
I also agree. Vindicator doesnt exactly compete well with kronos. It lacks 3 highslots. It lacks rep bonus and tracking bonus. It does have better base ehp. So again. Not that OP really.
bhaalgorn might be pretty hard to fit I think. Lost 1000 base grid. the extra cpu should be plenty.
The reason I was saying that you "can't fit damage rigs": - When fitting siege, you require 3 missile rigs - When fitting cruise, it's best to fit at least 2 rigors (3 is really really preferred) - When fitting sentries, it's best to fit at least 1 sentry damage augmentor (and fit 2 if you can)
Siege Rattler 4 Siege II, Drone Control Booster, Cap Booster, 3 Hardener, 2 PWNAGE (Note you don't have room for omnis) 4 CN BCU, DC, PDU 3 Missile Rigs
DPS, CN Torps: 536 (Missile) + 450 (Garde II) = 986 DPS DPS, Javs: 420 (Missile) + 450 (Garde II) = 870 DPS
It's flat out worse than a Dominix because: - It doesn't have Omnis (And you can't swap out the TPs because it hits your torp DPS too hard) - Domi does better against frigs at range (this matters because your sentries rather don't) - Domi has better raw damage than Jav variant, and faction variant doesn't have enough range
Ok, so lets fit Cruise.
4 CN Cruise, Drone Range Booster, Cap Booster, 3 Hardener, 2 Omni 4 CN BCU, PDU, DC Flare, Rigor, Damage Augmentor
DPS, Faction: 300 + 495 (Garde IIs) = 795 DPS It's flat out worse than a Dominix because: - It has much lower DPS
The only redeeming factor I can think of is that the Rattler will be able to mount a permatank, FOFs, and Ogres. Perhaps it can bring an all new high to AFK mission running.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.13 03:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jason Edwards I wouldnt agree with that. If using javelins you almost certainly dont need any missile rigs for range. With 1 sentry rig 2missile rigs. T1 gives 40km at max skills. Which is plenty I think for angels-serps-merc-drones If it isnt plenty. The sentries do the job just fine.
There are entirely too many ships and nearly entire factions that orbit out further than 40km. Basically, you're settling for "it does just fine" instead of "it does really excellent".
Quote: I really dont think u need rigors in this case. The drone bonus provides you much more dps capable mediums/lights. As opposed to the current raven brands. So on the smaller stuff where rigor counts... its not necessarily that effective. So sentry rig + 2 whatever.
Ok, so this is the deal: you've got a certain amount of missile DPS - and it's a really low amount of missile DPS. If you don't focus your drones on the battleships when you're shooting them it will greatly increase your mission times. Thus, you focus your drones on the BS's, and now you need to.... shoot the BCs! And then... the Cruisers! And then.. you get the drift eh?
In case you don't: you know why the Drake takes so much longer to run missions? Because its DPS is low and it has trouble breaking the battleships. You're going to have the same problem if you let your sentries wander. And if you don't... then you're gonna be stuck shooting BCs and Cruisers.
Quote: In the fits I messing with. I fit 1 omni. 1 sentry rig. Then fill the rest with an appropriate tank and such. The fit is fairly respectable and on par with the current dominix.
No, it's really not. The current Domi can drop out 920 DPS with 3 omnis (though you could consider replacing one with a target painter to help out with gun DPS). I just went over it: it doesn't matter how you fit the Rattler: it won't outmission a Domi, and it damn sure won't out mission a CNR.
Quote: ewww setup if I ever saw one.
Comments: - We already discussed why the rigs are necessary. Fitting otherwise is failfitting. As you say: your torp skills suck. Take it from someone with max torp skills, mmk? You NEED the range rigs. - The cap booster is necessary because you can't afford any slots for cap. - The target painters help drone tracking and missiles. It doesn't help with their optimal, but them's the breaks.
Quote: sentries dont? Wow news to me and the about billion frigs my sentries have alphad at range.
IMO rails do it better - and as I already covered about you splitting your DPS up. :)
Quote: I think that's the biggest factor of the entire ship. Value of isk is getting fairly high. We need mission runners to make more isk! Im willing to become rich.
So basically you're just telling me you want an AFK shield tanked Domi. Finnne.... but I rather expect billion ISK mission ship hulls to be good at what they do. The Rattler isn't.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.13 03:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cyno Hoar You're terrible at this game.
Excellent argumentation, and very convincing presentation. A+++ would read again! Totally convinced!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.13 08:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: fuxinos Isnt that the way you like to discuss?
Most of your posts go like: "Your wrong, because I say so".
Hes just talking to you on your niveau.
No, I tend to bring something to the table (such as fits, ideas, suggestions, etc). Moreover, I try not to blatantly lie and mislead in my posts unlike a certain other person I'm talking to right now. Although I had to wonder if he was your alt. The pettiness and timing of it really reminded me of you.
But really, claiming a Raven doesn't have tackle when you perfectly well could have traded the second PWNAGE for it and not materially affected anything. Oh, but the Raven neeeeeds the 2 PWNAGE to deal damage? Funny, so would the Phoon have then (and notably it wouldn't have had tackle then either) - They were both torp boats afterall.
And even then you never addressed my original complaint with your "suggestion": just how could you attempt to justify a huge PG nerf to the Phoon? OH WAIT, you couldn't. And then you ran away screaming about how vulgar and disgusting I was.... because I reasonably showed that suggestion to be utter bull****.
But you know what? If I am wrong... I'm wrong. That wasn't one of those times, and neither is this. If you still think you're right about it, let's take it back up in the Phoon thread. Your move, bud.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.13 08:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mahke The question of its true value is this: can it handle level V's (there are some agents that send you to hisec).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say no here. I believe I read a post in here somewhere about how they are drastically lowering shield recharge rates of battleships. This means there's no passive tanking it. And with those neut towers... best just stick to the Ishtar and Nighthawk IMO.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.13 18:15:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 13/09/2009 18:16:11
Originally by: Gypsio III CCP, can you please fix the CPU requirements of shield transporters so we don't end up armour tanking our shield-resist-bonused faction BS?
Or better yet, give the resist bonus to shields and armor.
-Liang
Ed: And I use "better" in the loosest sense. Shield transporters undoubtedly have broken fitting requirements. It would be good for the game to fix them. But I would greedily still want resist bonused armor and so many mids :) -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 03:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: trady mctradsytrade - Based on some guestimate efting using other ships with similar bonuses, the rattler should be able to get just under 1k dps, coupled with a tank that will be second only to caps and the will be navy scorp i cant see what everyones complaining about. show me a domi that can run 2 hv neuts 1k dps and ither well over 200k ehp (wo slaves) or a standerd t2 active tank of 1.8-2k (wo crystals)
Comments: - I can take a T2 fit T1 domi (no slaves) to 1K DPS with 170K EHP or 850 DPS and 1800 tanked. Furthermore, both mount full tackle. - The Rattlesnake will cost 20-30x what a fitted domi loss will cost you. IMO, it's fair to throw in a set of slaves and even some not-so-minor faction when comparing a T1 BS to one of the more expensive faction BS's. - Fitting sentries, 2 sentry rigs, (essentially tying you and your DPS to one place in PVP) and torps is a recipe for failure imo.
Sorry, the Rattler and Scorp are just a bit underwhelming.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.20 22:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lili Lu But that's the problem. These are pirate ships. They should not be pimped in missions.
You do realize that you have no right to go telling other people that they shouldn't be using pirate battleships in missions right? For all intents and purposes, you're simply railing against the way things already are.
Pretty much the only pirate BS's worthwhile in PVP are also worthwhile in PVE. Because a battleship's job is to deal damage. And that's what PVE is about.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.20 22:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lili Lu And tell me that the proposed Rattlesnake will not just be tanked up, and ack, even passively tanked up, by people looking for a more powerful drake/domi hybrid.
Seeing as how they're nerfing shield recharge rates on battleships, I doubt it'll be passively tanked. But even still, if they were looking for a more powerful domi, they should look at the Navy Domi. The Rattlesnake is entirely underwhelming.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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