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Dream Five Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate 307	Posted - 2012.06.08 06:31:00 - [451] - Quote Instead of adding all this crap they should've expanded corp asset search to include POS structures tbh.
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 90	Posted - 2012.06.08 06:32:00 - [452] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Par'Gellen wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Yes in my player activity I have had repeated exposure to corp hangars. I still do, and have not had a large degree of trouble adjusting to the new inventory, this is why I'm asking what specific troubles you are having so that I can help you. Fair enough. My specific troubles are that the corp hangar does not open in a tabbed hangar view exactly like the old one with a single click of a single button. I should not have to spin my chair and hold keys down to get what I had before with a simple single click. Well, I would argue that it does, it's just that the tabs are now to the left of the window rather than at the top of the window. Would I be fair in saying that? Yes, it's not exactly the same, but surely we can compromise here in that the functionality has been retained. Tree views and tabbed views are not equivalent. Tree views are great when there's a lot of items, with some structure. You need all that area just to handle all the cases. This would make them GREAT with the assets window -- it sorely needs this. Tab views are better when you have fewer items, and want to switch between them easily. They're a perfect fit for corporate hangers which, sadly, have all too few sections. Containers in hangers are a poor workaround -- give us more hanger tabs instead, and you'd have made a lot of people happy! The problem with the tree view in practice is simply that it is too inconvenient. Unlike the old tabbed hanger, the items you need to click on just aren't visible until you go scrolling around for them -- and they take up a whole lot of screen in the process. What I'd really like is for the Inventory system to pick up a few bits of functionality from the Assets window -- and then replace that. I think all that would be needed would be able to select the scope -- reachable here, this POS, this system, this region, all of space. I'd also like personal vs corporate as another dimension of scope. I'd like to be able to open multiple assets windows like this. Then I'd like opening a specific container to act pretty much like it always did. I can think of a few improvements, but none worth expanding this discussion. There are times when I'd use the (new) asset interface instead -- if I have an Orca load of GSC's to explore, for example, then the Unified Inventory (aka "New Assets") would definitely be easier to deal with. But not when I know right where something is, and right where I want to put it. There is nothing the Unified Inventory system can contribute to that. And then have the ability to open specific items again without the shift key, pretty much like they were before.
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 90	Posted - 2012.06.08 06:36:00 - [453] - Quote Dream Five wrote: Instead of adding all this crap they should've expanded corp asset search to include POS structures tbh. THAT would have me standing up and cheering. Especially if all this Unified Inventory stuff ended up there in the Assets window instead of where it landed, and corporate assets and personal assets were unified appropriately as well. (I hope it's obvious that I don't want personal and corporate assets MIXED TOGETHER, but I would like to use the same UI, and even have the option to deliberately search across both on occasion). I would also really appreciate personal tabs on Corporate Hanger Arrays and similar. That would really help cut down clutter -- and cutting down clutter gives you the opportunity to vastly improve performance!
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 90	Posted - 2012.06.08 06:38:00 - [454] - Quote MotherMoon wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Par'Gellen wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Well, I would argue that it does, it's just that the tabs are now to the left of the window rather than at the top of the window. Would I be fair in saying that? Yes, it's not exactly the same, but surely we can compromise here in that the functionality has been retained. You can say whatever you want. Nothing changes the fact that it's harder now. It's more clicks now. It's not intuitive. For God's sake it even requires keyboard input now to do things that before were a single left click of the mouse. If I only open one inventory window a day I could live with that. Multiply it a thousand fold and bask in the glow of the worst UI in the universe. We're now getting into opinion, but as I say, I will ask the team if rebinding the shift click to be normal click as a shortcut option (note - not default behaviour) is possible. That's all for me this evening folks. Fly safe. I need to say something important. Show info Allready works this way, with shift click opening a new window and normal click opening the new info over the old one. You even have back and forward buttons, and a check box to make shift click toggle opposite behavior. So if show info can do it shouldn't the items window ? Can we have an option for Show Info to stop doing it, please?
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 90	Posted - 2012.06.08 06:50:00 - [455] - Quote Dream Five wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way. There's a reason why MANY softwares have moved the hell away from tree views and implemented tabs. It's called basic, simple sense. Writings are horizontal (western ones). That is, they take lots of horizontal real estate. Tree views make already large windows unnecessarily larger by putting horizontal information to the left of the window. Tabs make large windows functional because they take small vertical real estate and zero horizontal real estate. The very fact you are going against all the accepted modern UI designs and find it good enough to "not going anywhere" is worrysome. You are implementing outdated and unpractical concepts. The day the UI is bug fee, it will still be conceptually wrong. See, many times I wanted to send CCP my curriculum but with decision makers taking this kind of directions and then sticking to them, I would feel embarassed. I would probably be bound to some "you won't publicly state your superiors borked grand time" legal agreement as well so I'd be put together the same people who can think these kinds of designs. No way. Yes. Tabs are better than trees for reasons outlined. Good reasoning here, worth paying good attention to this one. True up to a point. You should see the top of my browser window (Chrome), with 54 tabs, each one a favicon rather than something meaningful. My Eclipse editors end up much the same way. There comes a point where tabs start to fail -- you can go to multiple rows of tabs, but eventually that fails as well. Trees have their place. When structure is important, they help. When the list is long, they help. Where do we have the longest potential list of containers? The Assets window.
Chokichi Ozuwara Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown 300	Posted - 2012.06.08 06:55:00 - [456] - Quote ZaBob wrote: Where do we have the longest potential list of containers? The Assets window. Come to a wormhole. Open inventory at a POS. Good luck bro. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 90	Posted - 2012.06.08 07:02:00 - [457] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: You're wrong about DUST, but we do think the new system is more intuitive or user-friendly to newer players yes. FYI when you said make an option to reverse shift click and click, that is exactly what I was referring to when I said " If you like I will ask the team if mapping these as shortcuts that individual users can customise is an option?" I'm curious -- did you test this hypothesis, that new players will find it more intuitive? If so, I'd love to read about the test methodology and results. If not -- I recommend it. We have to consider new players and established players separately -- albeit with a learning path between. I do think the existence of the unified inventory system will help new players, by making what locations they have available more discoverable. I think it would do that just fine as the Assets button on the Neocon. But I think they also benefited from the old system, by the direct association of container and content window. Here's a suggestion: Bring back that direct association, and put an icon button on the title bar that brings up the unified inventory. Feature it in the tutorials, to make sure they don't miss it. It would be just like pressing the Assets button on the neocom, followed by selecting the container in question. It wouldn't overwrite the existing window -- but if you had an Assets window already open, and don't press the shift key, it would simply change the selection and set the focus to the existing Assets window.
Chokichi Ozuwara Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown 300	Posted - 2012.06.08 07:02:00 - [458] - Quote Dream Five wrote: They seem to enjoy shooting themselves in the foot on a fairly regular basis huh. I kinda feel for them. Crucible wasn't bad. The overview change was stupid, but there was much less outrage, because it only affected a small segment of players. Once they screwed up the overview, I basically stopped my billion isk a week ninja salvaging ops. Which was ok. I put one alt in RvB, I got one alt doing billions in trade arbi and my main went to explore. But now the inventory is screwed up, my alt in FW just skill trains, my trader just hauls, and my WH guy just does PI. I try to avoid using the asset window so much, I barely play the game anymore except for flying, skill training and PI, all things which don't need the inventory system. It's not that CCP doesn't like me, or my professions, or even my gameplay style. It's that they think either 1. We are edge cases, not representative of a larger whole and/or 2. They can simply outwait us and we will get fatigued and accept the new system. But they have forgotten about 3. When we unsub at the end of our subs to play a different game we don't have to fight with, made by a company which is happy to serve our needs. I like my Eve friends a lot. But not enough that I am willing to jump through hoops to manage assets to play the game. I can do Eve relationships outside Eve, it's called "the rest of the internet" and it is mostly free, diverse and responsive. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Ad'Hakim Tahous Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 189	Posted - 2012.06.08 07:28:00 - [459] - Quote Haifisch Zahne wrote: Well, if the tree view is "not going anywhere", I can tell you that I will. One subscription cancelled. CCP Goliath wrote: Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way. We have seen this before. IIRC it was right about a year ago. Am I right? Players are watching what you do, not what you say. (When they do watch what you say, the collective blood pressure rises) Players are also watching what you're not doing.
Pierced Brosmen Priory Of The Lemon 95	Posted - 2012.06.08 07:41:00 - [460] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Par'Gellen wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Yes in my player activity I have had repeated exposure to corp hangars. I still do, and have not had a large degree of trouble adjusting to the new inventory, this is why I'm asking what specific troubles you are having so that I can help you. Fair enough. My specific troubles are that the corp hangar does not open in a tabbed hangar view exactly like the old one with a single click of a single button. I should not have to spin my chair and hold keys down to get what I had before with a simple single click. Well, I would argue that it does, it's just that the tabs are now to the left of the window rather than at the top of the window. Would I be fair in saying that? Yes, it's not exactly the same, but surely we can compromise here in that the functionality has been retained. Yes, I agree that you still have the "tabs", however one of the main problems here is that the old tabs used very little screen realestate. The tree view is huge (if you actualy wants to see all the divisions) and forces you to eighter acceept having way less space to actualy see what's in the hangar or having a very large window. Both of wich are bad. List of requests: 1) If opening a corp hangar or any array with hangar divisions in a new window. Have a horizontal bar roughly where the old hangar divsions were, with (you guessed it) the hangar divisions. Make this bar collapsible so that people can choose if they want to use it or the tree. (This would also be great for the cargohold window, where you could have all the bays of your active ship available - Shift-click functionality retained in case you want to open a division/bay in another window). And make it low profile. 2) Assuming 1 isn't possible. When opening a corp hangar or any array with hangar divisions in a new windwo, have only the divisions related to that spesiffic hangar/array be listed in the tree and have a collapsed group underneath wich contained all other available items locations. 3) Reversed hot-key functionality and additional, persistant hot-key. Allow players to chose if they want to reverse the shift-click functionality so that you shift-click to open a location in the same window and vice versa and/or put such functionality to a key (I was thinking of something like the "Scroll Lock" key)

MotherMoon Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 800	Posted - 2012.06.08 07:42:00 - [461] - Quote ZaBob wrote: MotherMoon wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Par'Gellen wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Well, I would argue that it does, it's just that the tabs are now to the left of the window rather than at the top of the window. Would I be fair in saying that? Yes, it's not exactly the same, but surely we can compromise here in that the functionality has been retained. You can say whatever you want. Nothing changes the fact that it's harder now. It's more clicks now. It's not intuitive. For God's sake it even requires keyboard input now to do things that before were a single left click of the mouse. If I only open one inventory window a day I could live with that. Multiply it a thousand fold and bask in the glow of the worst UI in the universe. We're now getting into opinion, but as I say, I will ask the team if rebinding the shift click to be normal click as a shortcut option (note - not default behaviour) is possible. That's all for me this evening folks. Fly safe. I need to say something important. Show info Allready works this way, with shift click opening a new window and normal click opening the new info over the old one. You even have back and forward buttons, and a check box to make shift click toggle opposite behavior. So if show info can do it shouldn't the items window ? Can we have an option for Show Info to stop doing it, please? That's my point, it already does. Go to the menu, click toggle shift when clicking show info. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000
Davina Sienar The Misinterpretation of Silence Mean Coalition 36	Posted - 2012.06.08 08:02:00 - [462] - Quote Ooops Subscription Renewal Warning ^^ thought it was more days left ^^ better put some good stuff in next patch - or I won't be even needing it anymore This Is a Gun
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 82	Posted - 2012.06.08 08:56:00 - [463] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: You're wrong about DUST, but we do think the new system is more intuitive or user-friendly to newer players yes. If one of the goals of the new eunuchfied inventory is to be less confusing for new (or even old) players there needs to be more consistency and common sense to how it works. With the old inventory if I performed an action I knew with certainty what would happen. With the new one its not always obvious until I've learn't that special case. Trivial examples: - I double click on my ship in space and nothing happens. I double click on my ship whilst docked and my cargo bay opens. Would be better to be consistent. - I dock. My inventory is closed. I double click on my ship and my cargo bay opens. I click on the inventory button on the sidebar and rather than opening my station inventory my cargo bay minimises to the sidebar. I click again and my cargo reappears. If I move/resize the cargo bay opened it appears these setting are saved per ship rather than universally so I need to perform the same operation for each ship rather than once. Whilst I accept this is all consistent with how things are designed to work it is counter intuitive and confusing the first couple of times you do it. - I'm in space with my inventory closed. I open and empty a can/wreck, the can inventory opens then closes but now my cargo bay is open when it wasn't before I started looting the can. Would make more sense if my cargo hold retained the state it was in before I started the looting operation. - Active ships shows a drone bay even if it doesn't have one. I know my Badger doesn't have drones but will a new player? - I set up a filter based on item value. I set it for items less than a certain amount. I would expect items without a value to show (stuff not on the market) but they don't. I can find no option to filter on item has no value. Fear God and Thread Nought
Kusum Fawn State War Academy Caldari State 106	Posted - 2012.06.08 09:05:00 - [464] - Quote I need full documentation on click menus in this game from a dev who knows what they are actually on about. CCP Goliath wrote: Haifisch Zahne wrote: The tree view is horrible when looting. I have to drag the MAIN UI off a convenient bar of other windows usually left near top of screen EVERYTIME I loot. And, it remembers nothing. And, I have to resize it, position it, and make it transparent, or I can't move and loot at the same time. SHIFT-RIGHT CLICK!!! Tell me one other REAL piece of software that does this kind of nonsense. None that I know of, including EVE Online. Haifisch Zahne wrote: I just tested SHIFT-RIGHT CLICK. It "works" laughs hysterically at the idea this is working. Oh, now, we ALSO have SHIFT-DOUBLE CLICK?! CLICK, SHIFT-CLICK, SHIFT-DOUBLE CLICK, RIGHT CLICK, SHIFT-RIGHT CLICK. Let me guess, SHIFT-RIGHT DOUBLE CLICK is next?! CCP Goliath wrote: When did I ever say Shift right click? To open a container via overview you double click it under the old system. Now that opens it in the tree view. If you want it open in a separate window, shift double click it. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time. Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898
Pierced Brosmen Priory Of The Lemon 95	Posted - 2012.06.08 09:09:00 - [465] - Quote Jackie Fisher wrote: If I move/resize the cargo bay opened it appears these setting are saved per ship rather than universally so I need to perform the same operation for each ship rather than once. Whilst I accept this is all consistent with how things are designed to work it is counter intuitive and confusing the first couple of times you do it. I disagree. For me, different ships have different uses and different "requirements" to the size and position of the cargo bay. If I fly a PVP ship I want a small cargobay where I can see how much of the different charges (esp. cap boost batteries) I have left. That doesn't require much space. If I run incursions I want to constantly be able to see how many charges I have left so I know when to dock and reload. Also don't require more space. If I do missions where I might have different ammo in my hold for different damage types, I want a slightly larger window so it all fits, and can show mission items. If I'm mining or if I fly an orca or hauler to a POS to manage mineral supply or whatever. I want a considerably larger cargobay. I don't want to resize the window everytime I change ship, but rather set them up individualy per ship so they fits with their individual use. By coinsidence, this is exactly how the old inventory worked and I like it to stay that way
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1201	Posted - 2012.06.08 09:13:00 - [466] - Quote Here are three trivially easy modifications that would instantly make a LOT of more UI users stop complaining. 1) Shift click on Neocom Inventory spawns a new UI window with tree view. This is a time saver to avoid people having to expand the current UI (usually item hangar) to show tree view and then hide it again. 2) Tree view: double click on an hangar / lab on tree view automatically spawns a new UI that includes all the divisions. This would be a massive time and click saver. If you really program well like I like to, then make it "smart" so that it only opens hangar from 1 to N, where N is the last hangar with a name that is not the default. So you just open the divisions the user gave them a name to. Useful for those using less than 7 divisions. 3) Super Real Estate saving UI window with illustrated screenshots about how to do it. As of now we have a massive waste of space despite a tangible loss of functionality over the old version. Let's start from the current window. Total window height = 217 pixels Useful icons inside inventory space = 119 pixels This proves that with the current design there is an HUGE 45% waste of vertical space. Now, we lived for years with a tiny container fill % hystogram. We can give up a bit on it and save plenty. Furthermore two rows at the bottom are just bad design. I know you also have 1 button hidden somewhere on it, but it's not justification to use so much vertical space. Not even Explorer does that. It asks for optional showing of more info before it shows a second row of information (guess why). Now, I understand not willing to use the title bar (legacy code might refer to windows by "caption text" and thus break). So this is my "keep everyone happy" solution. New window height = 180 pixels Wasted vertical space: 34% This is 11% saved space per window and any power user will have at least 3 open all the time. Now, please do these things. They will greatly improve the players experience. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Sturmwolke 230	Posted - 2012.06.08 09:42:00 - [467] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: So this is my "keep everyone happy" solution. New window height = 180 pixels Wasted vertical space: 34% I'd find some ways to hide that "Est. price" grafitti. It's extraneous information that's simply not needed - most of the times. Nice to have? yes ... when you have need of it. Critical? NO. What's critical are: 1) proper container name 2) amount of cargo space 3) the filter 4) the number of items in cargo 5) the various views (icons, list and details) Keep the visual simple and tidy. The rest looks good though, though personally I'd thin the cargo blue line a bit further.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 301	Posted - 2012.06.08 10:13:00 - [468] - Quote new inventory still horrible to use. I dont want all in one window and I dont want to deal with shtty tree views. Before all was easy, 1 click and you were in the deliveries, corp hangar, the usual item hangar or ship hagar. And cargo just doubleclick in station background. It was easy. Now there is a FUCING SHTTY 1 window with a TREE VIEW to navigat through my stuff, which is simply plain FUKING ANNOYING!! Tried to separate them out but then for no apparent reason the windows are closed. Just click on deliveries and then try to open items or corp hangar in separate window with shift-click, the entire damn window is CLOSED!! WHAT THE FUQ IS THIS CRAP AGAIN CCP? In the end god forbid you close one of previously painfully set up windows, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THIS F*CKING PROCEDURE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!111111111111 SCRAP THE NEW INTERFACE CCP ASAP! Give us 1 click access to our hangars back!!11111111 RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE
vasuul BLUE M00N Fetish Group Eternus Imperium Alliance 36	Posted - 2012.06.08 11:06:00 - [469] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way. I hope you can come to terms with ,the fact that we all hate your file tree view and it is the total stubbornness of CPP to change their ways that really gets us irritated you promise us open communication, you promise us that you will listen to our input , then we realize we might as well be talking to a brick wall here is an idea i posted earlier in another thread on this subject put the tabs on the neo com panel one for ship, one for personal hangar , and one for corp each will open in a separate window with one click when you open the corp this way give us the old style with the tabs now you have your precious unified inventory and you also have the view that we are used to allow the customers to choose and keep track of which is used the most you want feedback this is the best way to get it you could even have the listing in a drop down so we can choose what hangars to add to the neocom Or you can continue stick your head in the sand ( or somewhere else the sun don't shine) and pretend there is not a problem and that your customers don't matter , that you are the all knowing alpha and omega and that your opinions matter more than your customers PS having this inventory pop up in missions when you loot a can is irritating as frack at least give us back the loot all button and don't make us open cargo hold unless we want to

CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 512	Posted - 2012.06.08 11:40:00 - [470] - Quote So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| @CCP_Goliath


Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 175	Posted - 2012.06.08 11:56:00 - [471] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it. Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe.
Makari Aeron The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium 8	Posted - 2012.06.08 12:24:00 - [472] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it. Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe. Agreed. And CCP Goliath, for the crap you had to put up with in this thread, I think you deserve a cookie. Sadly, I don't think shipping food Internationally is smiled upon. Pew Pew Pew!

CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 512	Posted - 2012.06.08 12:40:00 - [473] - Quote Makari Aeron wrote: Rengerel en Distel wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it. Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe. Agreed. And CCP Goliath, for the crap you had to put up with in this thread, I think you deserve a cookie. Sadly, I don't think shipping food Internationally is smiled upon. It would certainly be pretty mashed up by the time it got to me :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| @CCP_Goliath

Konstantin Panfilov Zaporozhye Sich 40	Posted - 2012.06.08 12:41:00 - [474] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it. About shortcut to DEV wrote in May 23-24 (in forum). Today on June 8. Passed 2 weeks. Nice....

CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 512	Posted - 2012.06.08 12:49:00 - [475] - Quote Konstantin Panfilov wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it. About shortcut to DEV wrote in May 23-24 (in forum). Today on June 8. Passed 2 weeks. Nice.... I wrote about it yesterday CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| @CCP_Goliath

Meytal School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 40	Posted - 2012.06.08 12:51:00 - [476] - Quote CCP still has a reference server with the old code available. They've admitted that, or at least Goliath did. CCP doesn't believe the players when they say things were easier with the old method. This is in spite of the fact that the players play this game more than they do. They design and program the game. That's different than being an end-user. CCP, if you really and truly want to make this a better inventory management interface, open up the reference server (or a copy of it) to players for a month or two. Disable the activation of modules, if you think people will just try to grief. Let us make images and videos of how we used to do things, and then we can make comparison images and videos of how we have to do those same things now. Then, again assuming you aren't just stringing us along here until the noise dies down, you can see and understand what everyone is saying. Then you can understand the position players are coming from, and why this new inventory is a major step backwards. CCP, Will you do this? Do you care about letting the players help you understand why they are complaining? This could also call their bluff. If people are complaining just to complain, and the old inventory management interface was inferior to the new one, you could see that as well. And you could demonstrate that as well. Note: "Can't do this" is not an acceptable answer. Virtual machines are cheap, and you already have a reference copy running as it is, so cloning that is easier than standing one up from backups. If you say this, it really means you won't bother spending the time to do it or don't think it's important enough to spend time setting this up, so just say that instead.
disasteur Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani 161	Posted - 2012.06.08 13:00:00 - [477] - Quote Makari Aeron wrote: Rengerel en Distel wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it. Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe. Agreed. And CCP Goliath, for the crap you had to put up with in this thread, I think you deserve a cookie. Sadly, I don't think shipping food Internationally is smiled upon. lol i was thinking that a load of crap deserved a load of crap, but then again thats just me thinking that

CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 512	Posted - 2012.06.08 13:00:00 - [478] - Quote Meytal wrote: CCP still has a reference server with the old code available. They've admitted that, or at least Goliath did. CCP doesn't believe the players when they say things were easier with the old method. This is in spite of the fact that the players play this game more than they do. They design and program the game. That's different than being an end-user. CCP, if you really and truly want to make this a better inventory management interface, open up the reference server (or a copy of it) to players for a month or two. Disable the activation of modules, if you think people will just try to grief. Let us make images and videos of how we used to do things, and then we can make comparison images and videos of how we have to do those same things now. Then, again assuming you aren't just stringing us along here until the noise dies down, you can see and understand what everyone is saying. Then you can understand the position players are coming from, and why this new inventory is a major step backwards. CCP, Will you do this? Do you care about letting the players help you understand why they are complaining? This could also call their bluff. If people are complaining just to complain, and the old inventory management interface was inferior to the new one, you could see that as well. And you could demonstrate that as well. Note: "Can't do this" is not an acceptable answer. Virtual machines are cheap, and you already have a reference copy running as it is, so cloning that is easier than standing one up from backups. If you say this, it really means you won't bother spending the time to do it or don't think it's important enough to spend time setting this up, so just say that instead. It wasn't an admission, we have a massive number of legacy builds because we need to test against previous functionality. It's also not a case of us not believing people, it would be naive to assume that people are actively lying to us about a system. We can't open our reference servers to the public however as they have sensitive data on them (all internal mirrors are unpruned and remirroring for a reference server would cause a bunch of conflicts). It's also not quite as simple as just whacking a VM based server up and letting that be public, you're just going to have to take my word for that. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| @CCP_Goliath

Rommiee Mercury Inc. 281	Posted - 2012.06.08 13:13:00 - [479] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Par'Gellen wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Smoking Blunts wrote: functionality is not the same with this new ui as with the old. 4 corp hangers at a pos. old system, right clcik 4 times all 28 hangers in 4 stacked windows. change to corp division 1, click each corp hanger wondow and you can see whats in all 4 hangers corp division 1 with 4 click, rinse repeat with all 4 corp hangers, division after division new system shift click 28 times. 28 windows, now try to search through 4 corp hanger division 1's... go on, try. now try division 2, 3 4, 5, 6 and 7... oh it gets better, warp away( all 28 windows become your cargo window and dont auto close), come back.... do it again and again and again... i bet you jsut give up as its a nightmare why have you removed right click menus that actually have a function ccp? I might be reading this wrong, but I don't see why you aren't using the tree view for this - it gives you the same functionality as before, but in one window (or 4 if you prefer one for each hangar) and you just 1 click to each division. Have you ever even used a corp hangar? Yes in my player activity I have had repeated exposure to corp hangars. I still do, and have not had a large degree of trouble adjusting to the new inventory, this is why I'm asking what specific troubles you are having so that I can help you. You ARE joking, RIGHT ? If you had EVER played the game you would not have brought this crap in. Seriously.
Rommiee Mercury Inc. 281	Posted - 2012.06.08 13:16:00 - [480] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Par'Gellen wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Par'Gellen wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: To open a container via overview you double click it under the old system. Now that opens it in the tree view. If you want it open in a separate window, shift double click it. Swap that around and some of us would be happy. Why does this abominiation of a UI try to take control of everything I do unless I hold up the holy cross (shift key)? The default behaviour is now to use the tree view. For people that are not a fan of this, shift click is implemented to enable them to use separate windows. If you like I will ask the team if mapping these as shortcuts that individual users can customise is an option? (Note, even if this is possible, it will not change the default behaviour) And you just pointed out the biggest problem with the whole mess. Thank you. Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way. And if not, then you are saying to bugger off then, yes ?


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