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Gavinat0r
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:40:00 -
[1]
As above is neutrals repping war targets an exploit or some bloody stupid well thought out game mechanic?
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VaderDSL
Invicta. Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:44:00 -
[2]
As soon as they rep the person you are at war with the neutral becomes flagged to you to kill surely?
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Gavinat0r
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:51:00 -
[3]
Nope he stays neutral
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: VaderDSL As soon as they rep the person you are at war with the neutral becomes flagged to you to kill surely?
should be this. at least it was this last time I was at war.
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Gavinat0r
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:57:00 -
[5]
Well he wasnt flashy red and iw as too busy with other things to try engage him
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VaderDSL
Invicta. Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:01:00 -
[6]
Aye the neutral would get a message saying, you are helping someone who is at war blah blah you will be liable to be shot by the opposing corp alliance etc.
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:02:00 -
[7]
There's been a few threads on this and personally IMO it does seem to be a pretty massive exploit. If A and B are at war and C Helps B during combat with A then C should be Flagged to A, not B turns into Mr invulnerable because he's too pansy on his own.
Currently though it is not condoned an exploit so best I can say is petition it and maybe we'll see a few more of these threads.
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Gavinat0r
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:06:00 -
[8]
Well then lol....What a great idea.
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Gavinat0r
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:11:00 -
[9]
Dev maybe give me an idea on why im making a big deal out of nothing or why it was a good idea to change the mechanics to allow neuts to rep war targets without giving them aggression.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gavinat0r Well he wasnt flashy red and iw as too busy with other things to try engage him
Was he some other kind of red? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gavinat0r Well he wasnt flashy red and iw as too busy with other things to try engage him
he should just be solid red unless you manually changed your overview settings, although if you were in a busy area such as jita 4-4 or amarr, it could have bugged and not shown up as red.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.05 00:14:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jimer Lins on 05/09/2009 00:15:01 Neutrals repping valid targets become valid targets. The problem is deeper than that, though.
1) It makes it impossible in some situations to have good battlefield knowledge. 2) It takes initiative away from the aggressor and gives it to the neutral. 3) Neutral reppers do not receive an aggro timer and can immediately redock if they take fire. 4) You can engage in neutral repping with NPC corp members, further extending invulnerability.
There's a lot wrong with the mechanic. I believe that for it to work properly, we need changes along these lines:
1) NPC corp members may not remote rep anyone in empire. 2) A player corp member who applies remote rep to another player who is at war gives instant aggro for their entire corp to the opposing force, which lasts for 24 hours. Example: Corp A declares war on Corp B. Some members of Corp C repair members of Corp B. Corp A may attack Corp C for 24 hours from the moment the repair occurs, reset every time another Corp C member repairs a Corp C member. Corp C may not initiate such aggression. It's essentially corp-wide killrights. 3) Remote repairing someone gives you aggro, preventing docking or jumping, as though you fired on someone.
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |
Taedrin
Gallente The Space Bar South The Compass
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jimer Lins Edited by: Jimer Lins on 05/09/2009 00:15:01 Neutrals repping valid targets become valid targets. The problem is deeper than that, though.
1) It makes it impossible in some situations to have good battlefield knowledge. 2) It takes initiative away from the aggressor and gives it to the neutral. 3) Neutral reppers do not receive an aggro timer and can immediately redock if they take fire. 4) You can engage in neutral repping with NPC corp members, further extending invulnerability.
There's a lot wrong with the mechanic. I believe that for it to work properly, we need changes along these lines:
1) NPC corp members may not remote rep anyone in empire. 2) A player corp member who applies remote rep to another player who is at war gives instant aggro for their entire corp to the opposing force, which lasts for 24 hours. Example: Corp A declares war on Corp B. Some members of Corp C repair members of Corp B. Corp A may attack Corp C for 24 hours from the moment the repair occurs, reset every time another Corp C member repairs a Corp C member. Corp C may not initiate such aggression. It's essentially corp-wide killrights. 3) Remote repairing someone gives you aggro, preventing docking or jumping, as though you fired on someone.
Suggestion #1 is bad. Suggestion #2 is horrible. Suggestion #3 is the only thing that you need to do to solve this problem. Neut RR's a war target -> gets aggression -> gets warp scrambled -> can't dock -> gets popped. 'nuff said.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Jimer Lins Edited by: Jimer Lins on 05/09/2009 00:15:01 Neutrals repping valid targets become valid targets. The problem is deeper than that, though.
1) It makes it impossible in some situations to have good battlefield knowledge. 2) It takes initiative away from the aggressor and gives it to the neutral. 3) Neutral reppers do not receive an aggro timer and can immediately redock if they take fire. 4) You can engage in neutral repping with NPC corp members, further extending invulnerability.
There's a lot wrong with the mechanic. I believe that for it to work properly, we need changes along these lines:
1) NPC corp members may not remote rep anyone in empire. 2) A player corp member who applies remote rep to another player who is at war gives instant aggro for their entire corp to the opposing force, which lasts for 24 hours. Example: Corp A declares war on Corp B. Some members of Corp C repair members of Corp B. Corp A may attack Corp C for 24 hours from the moment the repair occurs, reset every time another Corp C member repairs a Corp C member. Corp C may not initiate such aggression. It's essentially corp-wide killrights. 3) Remote repairing someone gives you aggro, preventing docking or jumping, as though you fired on someone.
Suggestion #1 is bad. Suggestion #2 is horrible. Suggestion #3 is the only thing that you need to do to solve this problem. Neut RR's a war target -> gets aggression -> gets warp scrambled -> can't dock -> gets popped. 'nuff said.
None of the suggestions are bad.
#1 is basically this: You want to participate in war? Get in a bloody player corp. NPC corps can't be wardecced, so they shouldn't be able to participate in a war. Period. End of story, get out.
#2 is : You want to remote rep someone when you're not involved in the war? Be ready to reap it. You're either in or you're out, you don't get to play halfway.
Tthe only way it should be is this: You get into the fight, you get in all the way, or you GTFO. None of this half-assed crap where people can play "I'm a combatant- now I'm not! Now I am! Now I'm not!" all day long.
It is abuse of game mechanics and should be recognized as an exploit, or the game mechanics should be changed to eliminate the abuse of the mechanic.
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |
Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Jimer Lins Edited by: Jimer Lins on 05/09/2009 00:15:01 Neutrals repping valid targets become valid targets. The problem is deeper than that, though.
1) It makes it impossible in some situations to have good battlefield knowledge. 2) It takes initiative away from the aggressor and gives it to the neutral. 3) Neutral reppers do not receive an aggro timer and can immediately redock if they take fire. 4) You can engage in neutral repping with NPC corp members, further extending invulnerability.
There's a lot wrong with the mechanic. I believe that for it to work properly, we need changes along these lines:
1) NPC corp members may not remote rep anyone in empire. 2) A player corp member who applies remote rep to another player who is at war gives instant aggro for their entire corp to the opposing force, which lasts for 24 hours. Example: Corp A declares war on Corp B. Some members of Corp C repair members of Corp B. Corp A may attack Corp C for 24 hours from the moment the repair occurs, reset every time another Corp C member repairs a Corp C member. Corp C may not initiate such aggression. It's essentially corp-wide killrights. 3) Remote repairing someone gives you aggro, preventing docking or jumping, as though you fired on someone.
Suggestion #1 is bad. Suggestion #2 is horrible. Suggestion #3 is the only thing that you need to do to solve this problem. Neut RR's a war target -> gets aggression -> gets warp scrambled -> can't dock -> gets popped. 'nuff said.
None of the suggestions are bad.
#1 is basically this: You want to participate in war? Get in a bloody player corp. NPC corps can't be wardecced, so they shouldn't be able to participate in a war. Period. End of story, get out.
#2 is : You want to remote rep someone when you're not involved in the war? Be ready to reap it. You're either in or you're out, you don't get to play halfway.
Tthe only way it should be is this: You get into the fight, you get in all the way, or you GTFO. None of this half-assed crap where people can play "I'm a combatant- now I'm not! Now I am! Now I'm not!" all day long.
It is abuse of game mechanics and should be recognized as an exploit, or the game mechanics should be changed to eliminate the abuse of the mechanic.
BUT WHAT IF I WANT TO RR SOMEONE FROM COMPLETE SAFETY WITH NO CONSEQUENCES? *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
Orion Eridanus
Dakota HeadHunters
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:02:00 -
[16]
I've heard from a few friends that neutral reps aren't turning flashy as they have been in the past and in addition neutrals have also been spotted shooting POS's in high sec with out being engaged by concord. This poped up after the last patch and have already been sent in as bug reports.
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lee Dalton
BUT WHAT IF I WANT TO RR SOMEONE FROM COMPLETE SAFETY WITH NO CONSEQUENCES?
*RAAAAAAAAGGGGEEEEEEEE*
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |
5pinDizzy
Amarr Caldari State 1st Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:58:00 -
[18]
There's also the neutral reppers on gates who will rep each other and their friends of course, as soon as you attack them and they take too much damage they just jump through the stargate, you can't get them on the other side of course as you have a minute of aggro to wait out if you stop fighting the actual wardecs, whereas they'll just jump back into system again in a rinse and repeat episode.
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Gearbox Whizbang
Dark Intentions Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.09.05 06:19:00 -
[19]
If a neutral repping agent isn't being flagged agro, then that needs to get fixed.
As for the rest of the suggestions? NPC corp rep restrictions are never going to happen. 24 hour kill rights are too one-sided and a 24-hour mutual agro is basically a free wardec. As for the gate/dock agro timer, that works the same even if you are wardecced. So all in all, the only thing I can see in this thread of value is pointing out that a bug exists. The rest seems to be something that most people manage to get worked out in the process of playing the game.
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Jones Bones
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.05 07:00:00 -
[20]
Fighting in highsec has its consequences. =================== Go Bucks! |
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