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Bigfood
Gallente Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:10:00 -
[1]
Federal Investigations Agency hereby announces to support Salvation Crusade members if requested.
For clarification:
FIA does not support the Amarr Empire, while we dont like the spread of the slavers religion, we're bound to the laws of the Federation and the Republic which guarantee Human Rights including the free choice of religion.
The offer includes security vessels for protection as well as a secure transport service to a FIA refugee hangar. The hangars supply proper medical installations as well as modified Station Containers for living.
This offer is sanctioned by the FIA's BoD and ressources are cleared for deployment.
FIA BoD Bigfood CEO, Federal Investigations Agency
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:22:00 -
[2]
Duly noted.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:40:00 -
[3]
+Supporters of Slavery½ (!)
I don't want to tell you what you should do or should not. But it would be better to quit the boosters, especially the drop. Outstanding and this leaves me speechless. -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Bigfood FIA does not support the Amarr Empire, while we dont like the spread of the slavers religion, we're bound to the laws of the Federation and the Republic which guarantee Human Rights including the free choice of religion.
So you feel the need to provide support any religion, regardless of tenents, simply because the adherants call it a religion? If a new religion was started that claimed that the path to some ambiguous benevolent afterlife required, among other things the forcible breeding of all Gallentean female children with Caldari men, would you support that religeon, too, or is it only religeons that require similar acts against Minmatar people?
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Ghost Hunter
Kinetic Vector
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire +Supporters of Slavery½ (!)
I don't want to tell you what you should do or should not. But it would be better to quit the boosters, especially the drop. Outstanding and this leaves me speechless.
Are you surprised? ______
The Seven Events of the Apocalypse The fourth event is described by Macaper as ôthe appetite of nothing expands over the worldö; |
Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire I don't want to tell you what you should do or should not.
You've been doing just that all week long.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:59:00 -
[7]
No I am exactly fighting for freedom here in Aset against two thrashers of our enemy. Alone. Where are you?! You protector of human rights and slayer helpless civilists, our brothers and sisters. Becasue they have chosen something that is not outlawed?
I do not like this kind of sect too, this twisted sort of believe. But I respect a choice. Do you? Do you stand freedom?
NO. You send killer if someone does things that you don't like. You are a damn suppressor. You are the slaver in our own ranks and your guilt is so well concealed under your appearance of rightfulness.
You want to outlaw the Amarr religion in Minmatar space? Go into politics. But if you are too weak for that to feeble and too drugaddiced then you put bounties on the heads of people. You even go not yourself.
THIS IS WEAK.
AND WHERE ARE YOU HERE IN ASET SOLDIER!?! The Amarr laugh about us! Because you just talk and kill our people while I stand our fight here at the front!
MOVE YOUR DAMN ASS AND STOPP BABBLING! -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:00:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Havohej on 26/08/2009 00:05:03
Originally by: Alica Wildfire You send killer if someone does things that you don't like.
I've done nothing of the sort.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire AND WHERE ARE YOU HERE IN ASET SOLDIER!?!
Not your personal army, I'm afraid. But where were you last night, or the night before, or any other time when I was on the front line and you weren't in the same fleet? Seriously, pilot, your... I guess this is some sort of challenge of conduct? Whatever it is, it's laughable at best.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:13:00 -
[9]
Ah, Blade Commander where I have been and where I have been fighting all day you can well see in my history. A history you still have to gain. Metropolis is burning and you waste your time with the killing of 100 people. Unarmed civilians. When thousands are dying out here. How many harm can they do?
Not more than you do with your murderous methods. You spit on Matar. You spit on everything we have been fighting for. You go and torture civilians, kill people without trial. You set your violent boot in their neck and have the nerve to CALL ME A SLAVER! -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire Ah, Blade Commander where I have been and where I have been fighting all day you can well see in my history. A history you still have to gain. Metropolis is burning and you waste your time with the killing of 100 people. Unarmed civilians. When thousands are dying out here. How many harm can they do?
Not more than you do with your murderous methods. You spit on Matar. You spit on everything we have been fighting for. You go and torture civilians, kill people without trial. You set your violent boot in their neck and have the nerve to CALL ME A SLAVER!
Because the ranks the militia gives us for orbiting stationary objects are the true judge of skill and honor. Sorry about not being active in metropolis... I'm too busy in Heimatar, the Bleaks, Providence and Derelik. Thank goodness Alica Wildfire is there to be the savior of Metropolis, though.
Again, the religious insurgents spreading the slaver's faith may be 'unarmed' but they are as far from civilian as you can get in this war... and you're supporting them.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:36:00 -
[11]
So you think I'm just orbiting stationary object here? Why did I down more Amarr than you ever did? Why have I sacrificed a lot of ships and why have I many killed done alone or in very small groups?
I did not begin to question your duty, soldier. You question mine. But in this light you are looking bad.
So I suggest you let shine your light in an other direction. For example doing something useful for our republic. Go out and fight. Go out and try to free our people from the Amarr conquered planets. Try to stop the stream of slaverships from Lantorn.
Unimportant yes?
While you are murdering unarmed civilians you waste your potential and disrupt even my duty. I am not keen to play the protector of these people. I really don't like them. And I even think that they can do harm. But I have faith in my people. Faith in our future and this seems something that is lacking you. You like to set your boot into the neck of the weak to make you feel strong. To feel your might and force.
Disgusting showoff of misuse of power. Power that is given to you by our people. And you go and kill them. Not by yourself. You hire murderers.
Rethink your way. I can not see anything good from where you go. -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Havohej on 26/08/2009 00:45:07
Originally by: Alica Wildfire So you think I'm just orbiting stationary object here? Why did I down more Amarr than you ever did? Why have I sacrificed a lot of ships and why have I many killed done alone or in very small groups?
I didn't say all you do is orbit stationary objects - I was pointing out that your Valklear General title bestowed by the militia's Republic sponsor means little to nothing in any way that counts. But since you insist...
Most of your ships are tech 1 frigates, I risk quite a bit more when I fly. Our kill numbers are very similar... the damages I've inflicted in ISK to the enemy outstrip your damages by a wide margin. Pilot, making this an argument of killboard stats makes you look childish... stick to relevant concerns, please.
This topic is about FIA's support of the slaver's religious insurgency on Minmatar worlds, not about your combat prowess.
*The Thukker-Sebiestor adds before terminating the transmission...
...and I'm not your soldier, pilot.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.26 02:20:00 -
[13]
Yes, excuse me pilot. I was in the middle of a fight, I was outnumbered and outgunned. And the warriors of Tribal Core were coming to help me. I did not want to question your ability or your skill as a combat pilot. And I don't tell you where and how you should your fighting skills in effect.
As I don't like if someone does this for me.
I just ask why you waste your energy and your money to pay criminals when the million you spend for a simple kill should be better put into a fitted Rifter and given as a present or as support to our troups. The killing of innocent is no way. You say they are not innocent. But they are unarmed. This for sure.
To use more force than is nessecary is contrary to all I believe and know. For I am no "loyal" follower of the Republic. I follow the spirit behind it and I respect the consense that the tribes found when they were making their laws - our laws. When I do not respect that - what do I respect anyway?
We are fighting for our people. But do you care to listen to him? No you don't. You ignore our laws. The laws are not made by a king or a queen or an emperor. The laws are made by our people. For our people. And by that law religion is free.
You say but the Amarr religion is no religion. I listen to you. Explain it to me. And when you done well enough you can explain it to our government. The government that is the result of our choice. And when you do well and they agree with you this Amarr religion will be made illegal. For that it is the carrier of the disease of the mindset of slavery. I myself have said something like that before.
That autocracy is the result of everybody pulling its authority from the one above him and the last pulls it from god. That is the reason why I am an atheist. And not just some atheist. I am a radical one. I think all religion carries the disease of slavery inside. And I think that a god does neither exist nor is it good for humankind that they think that he exists. Because it projects responsibility to a higher entity.
And we are responsible for what we do.
But I too believe in freedom. And there is no freedom if everything is forbidden. And many capsuleer corporations, especially the Minmatar really hate regressive systems. They reject them and of good reason. For they are the root for autocracy. Autocracy is the ruling of the strong. Not the ruling of those the ruled want to have as rulers.
What is that other than slavery? When you got ruled by someone that you can't chose as a community?
This is freedom. And if you want freedom you have to respect the chosen government, the law. You have not to obey like a slave. You follow the spirit. But to set your boot into the neck of the helpless, the undarmed and torture them and slit their throats, this is not what we are fighting for. If you want to fight the religion, do it with words. With arguments.
Your way just strenghtens our enemies. You give them the weapons to slay our philosophy. To corrupt and question our ideals. And those questions will arise even among our people. This is why I asked you to stop this. For the sake of our community. For the sake of our people, our culture and our tribal spirit.
You have seen me in rage, yes. Now I am relatively calm. And stop imply that I am supporting slavery. This is rediculous. I can not see more than a cheap rhetoric trick in this to discredit my position. Because I am saying something that you do not like.
Please keep it civilized and try to argue. And don't use cheap rhetoric tricks that every Minmatar schoolkid sees through. To work with cheap tricks is the Amarr way. It's the way of violence. I offer you to bring arguments and to convince me. I am really easy to convince, for I am all in all thinking the same. But I am acting different. I do not break our laws. I respect them. I respect our people. And I protect them.
But however. I am anarchist and I detest any sort of prohibition. It's wrong. -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 03:30:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Havohej on 26/08/2009 03:32:58
Originally by: Alica Wildfire stop imply that I am supporting slavery. This is rediculous. I can not see more than a cheap rhetoric trick in this to discredit my position.
I'm not much for cheap tricks of rhetoric... I understand your position more than it seems you think I do. You and others active on this summit, however, seem unwilling to understand ours. But that's okay, I've already intoned that I understand the reason for that: you need someone you can point at and say, "There goes the bad guy." You need someone who will do what must be done, even if social convention dictates that what must be done isn't the "right" thing to do. I understand, and I can accept it - someone has to.
But when you say, "We will commit our resources to ensuring the safety and protection of as many of these Salvation Crusaders as we can manage," when these Salvation Crusaders are preaching the Amarr Empire's religious doctrine - the same religious doctrine that they have used for millenia to justify their enslavement of our people and others (because as any Ushra'Khan pilot will happily remind you, it's not just our people enslaved by the Empire but anyone weak enough for them to get away with taking), how can you say that you don't support slavery?
Du'uma Fiisi's offer of reward isn't an act against the Amarr Empire; we act against the Empire as part of militia fleets as often as our resources permit and we wish that we could do more with what we have on that front. No, our offer of reward is against the spread of the slaver's religion, the spread of the doctrine of slavery itself, among our own people.
You disagree with our method, that's fine. You've suggested alternatives. These alternatives don't fit our ideology, but they seem to fit yours. As I suggested to Electus Matari in the thread attached to Du'uma Fiisi's press release, perhaps the FIA could make these diplomatic and political overtures to the Republic. If we do what we're doing and you or whomever does that, then we attack the problem of the slaver's religious insurrection from both angles. The sooner this insurrection is crushed, the sooner we have to stop offering incentives for our people to carry out their civic duty and we can all be friends again.
Instead, though, you've spent your time railing at Du'uma Fiisi and promising to help the slaver's religious insurrection flourish... it's difficult to reconcile your actions with your words, pilot.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire I respect our people. And I protect them.
The moment they gave their soul to the slaver's 'god', they ceased being our people. We're not in the business of redemption or re-education against the slaver's lies but if someone else chose to fight the problem in that way, Du'uma Fiisi would find funds to allocate toward helping that sort of effort as well.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:28:00 -
[15]
I am not particularly happy to post again in a thread related to this silly issue, but I guess I have to.
Originally by: Havohej Duly noted.
Does this mean that Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics considers the Minmatar Republic under Sanmatar Shakor to be "supporters of slavery" as well, and will set them to hostile standings?
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:31:00 -
[16]
Our laws guarantee freedom. Freedom of speech, of thought, of press, of religion, of choice and of the body. To make that work our society -the Minmatar people- worked out a set of rules. This rules express the common consense about how far the personal freedom of someone may go and where it ends.
This rules say that preaching a religion is no crime. It is not against our law, not against our consense. Even if I do not like any Amarr preacher I respect our people because I respect that this is part of the freedom we have: tolerance.
So when I protect these people I neither like them nor do I support slavery or the slavers. I serve our people with it. And what you blame on me you blame on any Matari, on every man and women, on everyone that is supporting and helping our cause. You call me a slaver? You call Sanmatar Shakor a slaver. You call our tribal leaders a slaver. You call those who have voted them slavers. You call everyone that tries to implement the freedom inside our laws -our rules- a slaver. You call everyone a slaver that supports the law of our people. I do no more than to make them work on this people. To give them what we promised by our consense. Really I do not like that and I think our people have made a mistake and that I hope that they change their mind about this a bit. But I am not acting out of my own initiative, I am acting by the consense of our people.
That is all. You call me a slaver but you disrespect the rights of people and put your boot on their neck. I really don't like the position in which I am. Between your guns and those people. But this is the way our laws are.
Laws. I am breaking a lot of them too. I am breaking the laws of our enemies because I do not accept them. They are not the expression of our brothers and sisters that suffer in shackles. So I do not have to respect them. But I do not go and sneak up behind someone and murder him from behind. I put my ship full of good old Minmatar handguns and deliver them to our brothers and sisters to enable them to put a bullet though the head of their masters. And I am hunted by the Navy doing this and by the customs.
I made a choice and I accepted the consequences.
You want to disobey our laws? The laws that are made by us Minmatar for us Minmatar? So be an outlaw. Live outside our Republic, enter the borders with the Navy, the Customs and Concord on you. But as long as you want to tell me that all you do you do for our people, respect their choice. Respect their laws.
And do not come sneaking from behind. Or knock on the door at five o'clock in the moring like the Amarr inquisition and begin to torture citizens. And after that have the nerve to claim: "it is for the people." It is clearly not. It is for your stubborn pride and your disrespect for the people you say you care for. You even don't care for their rules. Not even that.
Lantorn has fallen. Siseide has fallen. Whole systems with maybe billion people on it. Fallen under the rule of Amarr. Enslaved. Deported. Don't tell me it does not happen, it happens. Now. You want to do something for our people? Help them. Drive away the slavers. We lost two whole systems -Matari systems- to the slavers already. Yes we rescued many Matari from Amarr systems before. But this is bad. Metropolis is burning. Everyday a bit more. And the slavers will come and simply harvest us if we do nothing against this. I was there yesterday. I asked you to come, not politely I admit and excuse me for that. But you did not care.
What do you really care for? Not for whole sytems that fall into the hands of the slavers. Not of whole Constellation. Not of whole Regions. You don't care for our laws. You don't care for our freedom. You slit the throats of people who use them inside our rules - act against our rules.
What are you then? -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik I am not particularly happy to post again in a thread related to this silly issue, but I guess I have to.
Does this mean that Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics considers the Minmatar Republic under Sanmatar Shakor to be "supporters of slavery" as well, and will set them to hostile standings?
Du'uma Fiisi considers the Minmatar Republic under Sanmatar Shakor to be in a transitional period in which the errant laws enacting during the regime of Midular the Appeaser have not been reviewed and re-evaluated by a Tribal Assembly (as opposed to an Appeasement Beauracracy) due to circumstances not permitting Sanmatar Shakor to hold such an Assembly. Du'uma Fiisi is confident that when the Tribal Assembly is convened, the decisions made their will be designed to protect and empower the Minmatar people, not appease and curry favor with Empire or State critics.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire A lot of words.
The laws passed under a regime in which our primary political leader's number one objective was to make sure we didn't anger the Amarr Empire are not laws enacted with the best interests of the Minmatar People at heart.
I stopped reading when you compared yourself to Sanmatar Shakor, so I can't comment on the rest of your remarks.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:51:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 26/08/2009 07:52:26
Quote: The laws passed under a regime in which our primary political leader's number one objective was to make sure we didn't anger the Amarr Empire are not laws enacted with the best interests of the Minmatar People at heart.
I stopped reading when you compared yourself to Sanmatar Shakor, so I can't comment on the rest of your remarks.
Yes reading is a gift. I said Shakor is the rules for he respresents our consense at the moment. I do only follow them but I also apply to the rules for I stand behind them, no I even more stand behind the people that made them. You really called Shakor a slaver, man. You called every loyalist a slaver and every citizen that voted for our rules. That's exactly what you did. You should relativize that, I think, before they come over you.
Reading is a gift. Ignorance instead is a "virtue" that our enemies brought to blossom. Don't plant it here, brother. -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.08.26 08:12:00 -
[19]
Thank you for the clarification.
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 08:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire reading is a gift
Do you really think that when Shakor came to power, he erased all of the Republic's laws made during and before Midular the Appeaser's regime and replaced them all with his own, better laws? Or are you just pulling my leg...?
You realize why Shakor is in power now, pilot? Brutor Party Leader and Tribe Chief Wkumi Pol said, "the Minmatar people need a leader who can lead us away from the wreckage of democracy and guide us through dangerous times". When Maleuatu Shakor ran unopposed, the Minmatar people were mostly united in looking forward to not only a regime change but, in the words of one analyst, "a complete restructuring of the government, from the ground up."
At his inauguration speech, Sanmatar Shakor said that we are, "a race of warriors, not slaves," and stressed the importance of clan unity - he said nothing about the importance of allowing outsiders like Abel Jarek to begin religious insurrections on behalf of the Amarr Empire. Or did you forget that Jarek was a Cleric in the Salvation Church of Blessed Servitude, an authorized branch of the Amarrian Church serving slave populations? An official Amarrian slave preacher!
The Amarrians will tell you that Jarek acted on his own and that the Empire did not put him up to it. But do you remember the warning issued by Sanmatar Shakor himself shortly before Jarek crossed into the Republic to use the Right of Return and claim citizenship in the Minmatar Republic in order to preach the Amarrian faith here? Sanmatar Maleatu Shakor warned that the 9th generation slave releases could not be taken at face value and that behind them would be "more of the treachery we have come to expect from the Amarr." That was on 111.01.21, Jarek announced his religious insurrection 111.02.07. Only a fool would believe the Amarr when they say that Jarek acted on his own and was not acting on direct orders from the Empire.
Shakor warned us and he was right, but you would ignore those warnings choosing to believe in Gallente ideals that simply do not apply here. You have the utter hubris to compare yourself to Sanmatar Shakor, but you aren't even paying attention to what's going on around you, pilot. When the Tribal Assembly is convened, I trust we will see sweeping changes in the Minmatar Empire and the bounty my corporation is offering will be made obsolete. Until then, however, while the Republic is still saddled with outdated and counterproductive laws designed to improve the way we are viewed by our former masters in Amarr, Du'uma Fiisi will do what we feel we must.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.26 10:18:00 -
[21]
I really do not need any lecturing from you. I followed these important events closely. And I am standing behind my people but I disagree with some of the methods that were chosen. But I do not assume anything before it happens. And you should not assume anything too. It is not long until we know the changes that will come.
And if the new laws outlaw the Amarrian religion or the official branch of the zelots here that'll be okay for me if all our people find this is they way it should be as a community. But this has not happend yet and you can't say if it ever will. So deal with the rules that are, this is the way our people expressed their will last time they had a chance.
The direct democratic movement inside our Republic is not happy how the changes of our Republic are executed and I am with them. I have expressed that earlier on the IGS, I really was in rage about that to be true and lost some of my contenance at that time. But I do not question that changes have to be made and my tribe did not launch a candidate itself but assembled behind Shakor together with the Brutor tribe. So I'm with them.
So you see not everything that is going on is liked by me. But as long as the people are behind this and the Republic is not changing into an autocracy I can live with it. To stand behind your people means that I am serving them and respecting them. From the people for the people.
If this means Republic, Federation or tribal union this is just the form of the structure. The one may have advantages that other do not have but they will also have disadvantages, which is the point I am criticizeing. I am prefering a more flat structure of society, but when our people decide to build up something different I'm with them. I might be in opposition against that decision but I'm with them, I respect them.
And at the moment I protect our laws and with it the spirit of freedom by protecting those damn Crusaders. When our people change that, I will be too happy to kick them out. Because I don't like them. But this is not my decision and it is not yours. They were 241 when they came to us and they are not more than that. They are already less, without counting the slain in. They are already dissolving, so relax.
Wait until the tribes gather and decide, brother. Then I give you free way and step aside. To not take the law into your own hands. This is disrespectful to our people and the spirit that they express with our laws. Or you tell me your authority and show me where the people are that allow you to slay people on our streets that have an opinion or religion you don't like. And this is the point where we are. And where I brought together our board of directors and where we decided democratically what to do next. We decided to serve the rules of the Republic for they are still the expression of will of our community. And took on us to handle these zealots and give them a safe shelter and protect them from murder.
We promised something to our people. To enforce our laws and rights on the street and protect our community. This is what they want. If it is wrong or right, I can't say. Right is to give them freedom of speech, wrong might be to give them a chance to spread their meme of slavery among our people. I said every religon carries the poison of slavery inside. But I am not thinking that our community should forbid them. I would like to give them a free choice. For this a personal descision. And I have faith in our people.
But really, you should stop calling everyone a slaver that is carrying out our laws and that is standing behind them. Shakor represents them at the moment. He is willing to change them but he accepts their current status. You call me a slaver, you call him a slaver and with him everybody behind him. -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Elmo Vormar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 12:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 26/08/2009 11:06:28 But really, you should stop calling everyone a slaver that is carrying out our laws and that is standing behind them. Shakor represents them at the moment. He is willing to change them but he accepts their current status. Even if they are not perfect.
Not everyone who is carrying out our laws is a slaver. The people (doesnt mather if they are caldari, galentean or minmatar) who helps, defends, collaborates with or are loyal to slavers or amarrian loyalists are the same as those slavers. The only kind of people that i hate more then slavers are the lapdogs or puppets of those slavers (like the Ammatar). The ones that see everything happen but fail to react or help.
Like Havohej said: if we need to be the bad guys, so be it. I'm not ashamed for the things i do for our people
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lucifers widow
3rd Kador lancers
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Posted - 2009.08.26 12:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Havohej
I didn't say all you do is orbit stationary objects - I was pointing out that your Valklear General title bestowed by the militia's Republic sponsor means little to nothing in any way that counts. But since you insist...
Couple of meaningless kb links to promote E-peen in poster
Compare the two corps though, also you wil note the FIA far outweigh you're own efforts while they also target primarily Amarr targets while you seem to shoot anyone be it pirate, Amarr, own side etc etc.
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Elmo Vormar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 12:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: lucifers widow
Originally by: Havohej
I didn't say all you do is orbit stationary objects - I was pointing out that your Valklear General title bestowed by the militia's Republic sponsor means little to nothing in any way that counts. But since you insist...
Couple of meaningless kb links to promote E-peen in poster
Compare the two corps though, also you wil note the FIA far outweigh you're own efforts while they also target primarily Amarr targets while you seem to shoot anyone be it pirate, Amarr, own side etc etc.
Do you even read all the things that are said? Ms Wildfire "attacked" Havohej about his personal achievements regarding combat for the militia and he replied with links that compared his and Ms Wildfire's combat achievements.
Don't drag corp achievements into that particular discussion cause they have nothing to do with that.
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.26 13:30:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 26/08/2009 13:34:20 The law and the rights are for every citizen of the Minmatar Republic. Not only for those you like.
What you want and practice is despotism. And I -we- just protect people from that. As long as they have these rights legally. Even if I may dislike them even more than you do. Because you do not seem to have problems with any other religion, that I have clearly. And I have now to bear their sickening prayers all day long and their zealotry and.... I thought about the 11 km/s solar escape vomit, that makes me vomit in such an intense speed that it is enough to bring the mass out of the gravitation of our sun, brother. And I really thank you for this. OH! How I am thankful. Soooo thankful. (If you see some sarcasm dripping of your console it might be from this post.)
And you know whom I have to "thank" for this questionable "honor" to protect this scum? YOU!
So if anyone should be pissed off then me. Me and all other that try to keep our Republic running. Without you those bastards would have been long forgotten in their hidden hills that even the cows don't use to graze anymore. But your stupid action brings them again and again into public and gives them media impact.
This is contraproductive. No it is worse. It is somewhere near treachery to our cause. You really help the Amarr with that you ***** **** **** ********* ***** ****! -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Zuzanna Alondra
Gallente Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 14:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire
This is contraproductive. No it is worse. It is somewhere near treachery to our cause. You really help the Amarr with that you ***** **** **** ********* ***** **** ******** **** ******** **** ******** ****** **** and ***** ******* ***** ***** stick you where ****** ****** ******* ******* on something ****** **** ******* ****** biological ***** ******** ***** ****** mother ***** ******* ********** ****!
And I thought my mouth was foul when I got mad.
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Gorkus Dante
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 15:19:00 -
[27]
If you support Slavery or the opression of my people then I will happily kill you no matter what law protects you.
In Ammarian law it is considered heresy to speak against the church.
In Minmatar space it is a crime to kill those who would preach of our own peoples slavery?
In my eyes law means nothing and I abide by my Morals only.
I will commit crimes happily against those who would seek to opress my people. Because anyone who seeks to opress my people is my enemy.
I would of slit Abel Jareks throat while he slept, not because it is right, but because he is my enemy.
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Lord Maximullis
Amarr Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire
This is contraproductive. No it is worse. It is somewhere near treachery to our cause. You really help the Amarr with that you ***** **** **** ********* ***** **** ******** **** ******** **** ******** ****** **** and ***** ******* ***** ***** stick you where ****** ****** ******* ******* on something ****** **** ******* ****** biological ***** ******** ***** ****** mother ***** ******* ********** ****!
Marius can be seen rolling his eyes onscreen.
"pfft. How bloody immature. Now you are resorting to insults simply because you cannot back up your arguement. I had expected better from a Valkear General"
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.08.26 19:05:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Seriphyn Inhonores on 26/08/2009 19:08:55 I have not obliged nor given myself the time to read this entire thread, however, I will say that the persecution of individuals on the basis of religious grounds is pure outright tyranny
How dare Du'uma Fiisi offer blood money for free followers of a belief. Does it not occur to you, that many of these followers are truthful and sincere, and wish for the best for humanity? How could one kill, blinded or not, someone who honestly believes he has found the truth, and will go out with love to share it?
Barbarism at its best, you are no different from the Amarr. Though, I am wrong to expect to find values of freedom and liberty outside the borders of the Federation.
Good on the work of the Federal Investigations Agency. If Matari loyalist corporations cannot uphold the values of freedom that the country was founded on, then we Gallente will have to show them how instead.
For the record, I do not speak on behalf of Electus Matari, but myself and my prospective constituents.
Seriphyn Inhonores Luminaire District Parliament candidate for Greater Monipuolinen ward Sociocrat Party
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.26 19:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire I really do not need any lecturing from you.
Obviously you do.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire I followed these important events closely.
Obviously you did not.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire But I do not assume anything before it happens. And you should not assume anything too. It is not long until we know the changes that will come.
I'm not making assumptions, I'm observing promises from Shakor's own lips.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire So deal with the rules that are, this is the way our people expressed their will last time they had a chance.
Don't make me laugh; our people never got to express their will when nearly all of our political figures were on the Amarr Empire's payroll.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire The direct democratic movement inside our Republic is not happy how the changes of our Republic are executed and I am with them.
When it becomes clear that democracy is not the way forward for the Minmatar Empire, the Federation will surely welcome you... and good riddance.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire But I do not question that changes have to be made and my tribe did not launch a candidate itself but assembled behind Shakor together with the Brutor tribe. So I'm with them.
No you aren't, you're a democratist.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire But this is not my decision and it is not yours. They were 241 when they came to us and they are not more than that. They are already less, without counting the slain in. They are already dissolving, so relax.
Are you stupid? They are MORE, not LESS!
Originally by: Alica Wildfire Then I give you free way and step aside.
I don't need your permission, pilot.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire To not take the law into your own hands. This is disrespectful to our people and the spirit that they express with our laws.
Laws designed to mimic the Gallente political model and make the Amarr like us (good luck with that!) have nothing to do with expressing the spirit of our people. Bark that nonsense up some other tree, 'cause it's useless here.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire I said every religon carries the poison of slavery inside.
You're a fool. Plain and simple.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire you should stop calling everyone a slaver that is carrying out our laws and that is standing behind them. Shakor represents them at the moment. He is willing to change them but he accepts their current status. Even if they are not perfect.
If he accepted their current status or respected them, he would not change them. And it is clear that he is going to change everything. You didn't notice than after being elected Prime Minister, when he was bestowed the title of Sanmatar his first act was to make Sanmatar the official title of office - the Minmatar Republic no longer has a Prime Minister. Did you notice that he has not been conducting his government via the Parliament except in the most unavoidable circumstances? Some respect for the status quo, there... you're wrong, pilot.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire Face it: they will never be. They change permanently in a living society.
It may never be "perfect", but at least it won't be a failed copy of Gallentean democracy full of laws brought about by submission to the will of the Amarr Empire.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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